wify
Member
Could I get some opinions on the Llama Comanche .357. Is that a lower quality m27?
llama not the dali
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As an Edsel is to a Rolls Royce, so is a Llama Comanche to a Model 27.
Texas Star
US Veteran
First, a "Dali" is an artist named Salvador. The lama (not llama) is the Dalai. And Llama is a gun brand made by Gabilondo y Cia. in Spain.
Now that I've shown off how erudite I am (that and about five bucks will get me a cup of coffee almost anywhere), let's address the .357 Comanche.
A VERY well gun writer of a few years back got one, on a trip to the factory, I think. He told me that it was of surprisingly good quality, not that far from contemporary US revolvers. Those had a lot of QC problems then, especially cylinder timing. This definitely did include S&W guns.
He shot the Comanche a fair bit, and he was an exceedingly observant, critical man. Actually, he wrote about hunting more than he reviewed guns, because he didn't want to upset editors and advertisers by saying what he thought of many guns being made then. Mind you, the man had plenty of American handguns. He wasn't some hick hack who fell off the turnip truck and had seen only the Llama Comanche.
He had other guns to compare it to.
If he spoke well of it, and he did, I strongly suspect that if a particular example checks out okay quality -wise, as with other brands, it will do well by you. This doesn't mean that it's fully the equal of a S&W in all respects. But it'll come pretty close. I would like to know whether the action parts are cast, and how they're hardened. (The Spanish don't always use the same investment casting process that Ruger does.)
Those who know Spanish revolvers tend to rate the Astra higher, but not a lot.
I wouldn't buy one in lieu of a Smith or Ruger, and the Comanche has been discontinued, I think. Parts and service may be an issue. If you need to save money, look for a used S&W or Ruger. But if you just want to try the Llama or someone isn't heavily "into" guns and wants a solid revolver at a probably good price, I think the Comanche won't scalp him. That's more than could be said for its namesake, at one time!
T-Star
Now that I've shown off how erudite I am (that and about five bucks will get me a cup of coffee almost anywhere), let's address the .357 Comanche.
A VERY well gun writer of a few years back got one, on a trip to the factory, I think. He told me that it was of surprisingly good quality, not that far from contemporary US revolvers. Those had a lot of QC problems then, especially cylinder timing. This definitely did include S&W guns.
He shot the Comanche a fair bit, and he was an exceedingly observant, critical man. Actually, he wrote about hunting more than he reviewed guns, because he didn't want to upset editors and advertisers by saying what he thought of many guns being made then. Mind you, the man had plenty of American handguns. He wasn't some hick hack who fell off the turnip truck and had seen only the Llama Comanche.
He had other guns to compare it to.
If he spoke well of it, and he did, I strongly suspect that if a particular example checks out okay quality -wise, as with other brands, it will do well by you. This doesn't mean that it's fully the equal of a S&W in all respects. But it'll come pretty close. I would like to know whether the action parts are cast, and how they're hardened. (The Spanish don't always use the same investment casting process that Ruger does.)
Those who know Spanish revolvers tend to rate the Astra higher, but not a lot.
I wouldn't buy one in lieu of a Smith or Ruger, and the Comanche has been discontinued, I think. Parts and service may be an issue. If you need to save money, look for a used S&W or Ruger. But if you just want to try the Llama or someone isn't heavily "into" guns and wants a solid revolver at a probably good price, I think the Comanche won't scalp him. That's more than could be said for its namesake, at one time!
T-Star
Thanks again for the educational responses. Sorry for the mix up, T-Star. I was watching Caddy Shack while I was typing the question.
Seriously though, if I can get a Comanche cheap just for the range and to lessen the wear on a good m27, is it a deal under $400?
I'll try and check on the casting.
Thanks.
Seriously though, if I can get a Comanche cheap just for the range and to lessen the wear on a good m27, is it a deal under $400?
I'll try and check on the casting.
Thanks.
Texas Star
US Veteran
If the owner is trying to sell the gun, he/she isn't the best person to ask about quality issues. Caveat emptor! If this is the person who told you to compare the Llama to an S&W M-27, be very suspicious.
Try asking a gunsmith familiar with the brand who isn't acquainted with the owner, or ask the question columnist at a gun magazine. If time constraints preclude that, ask on several forums. The High Road www.thehighroad.org has a few savvy revolver men who may know. Old Fuff and Jim March are two.
What you want to know is whether the parts were forged or cast, and how the heat-treating compares to that on American brands.
Frankly, if the size and weight of the M-27 don't deter you, and you want a M-27, I'd put the money into saving for one. Or, get the plainer-finished version, the M-28, if you need to save money. You'll still have a Smith & Wesson!
If you buy the Llama, you'll have a Spanish gun not made any longer (?), for which respect, parts, and gunsmiths are lacking.
T-Star
Try asking a gunsmith familiar with the brand who isn't acquainted with the owner, or ask the question columnist at a gun magazine. If time constraints preclude that, ask on several forums. The High Road www.thehighroad.org has a few savvy revolver men who may know. Old Fuff and Jim March are two.
What you want to know is whether the parts were forged or cast, and how the heat-treating compares to that on American brands.
Frankly, if the size and weight of the M-27 don't deter you, and you want a M-27, I'd put the money into saving for one. Or, get the plainer-finished version, the M-28, if you need to save money. You'll still have a Smith & Wesson!
If you buy the Llama, you'll have a Spanish gun not made any longer (?), for which respect, parts, and gunsmiths are lacking.
T-Star
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Texas Star
US Veteran
Seriously, if you plan to get an M-27 or have one, and want to lessen wear on it, I'd get a Ruger GP-100. And you can get them in stainless steel, too, which offers maintenance advantages.
Or, get a second M-27. Or, an M-28, which is the same gun, less some cosmetic factors.
I just asked on The High Road about those action parts. I'm curious now, myself. I'll be mildly surprised if anyone knows.
T-Star
Or, get a second M-27. Or, an M-28, which is the same gun, less some cosmetic factors.
I just asked on The High Road about those action parts. I'm curious now, myself. I'll be mildly surprised if anyone knows.
T-Star
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Jim Shugart
Member
The one-L lama, he's a priest
The two-L llama, he's a beast
And I would bet a silk pyjama
There isn't any three-L lllama
- Ogden Nash
Nicksterdemus
Member
Have you seen this sidearm? There's a "new" Comanche .357 that's been available for a while for around 4 bills that I wouldn't give 3 for unless someone was waiting for me in the parking lot. A sporting goods jerint in town carries them. They're made in Argentina.
I have a mid 60's Astra Cadix .22 DA wheelgun that compares favorably w/S&W. No, it did not come w/optional wooden stocks, but the machine work and the bluing appear to be quality work. Nine round cylinder, grooved trigger and target sights.
Unfortunately the GCA of 68 put the quietus on Astra in the US, as I understand.
If the .357 sez, Made in Argentina then I would run like the wind. If not and in good shape it would top out at three bills for me.
The south of the border Comanche seems to have been offered in model I, II & III. In the 2005 shooter's bible the mod II .357 in 3, 4 or 6" brl ran for $259 in blue & $284 stainless.
I don't know anything about the long neck goats that they use for golf caddies...
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Bersa is out of Argentina and it appears that they joined at least for a period of time with Llama in production of the semi-auto Firestorm that shows up on the Bersa website.
Gabilondo, "Llama" is manufactured in Victoria, Spain.
I have a mid 60's Astra Cadix .22 DA wheelgun that compares favorably w/S&W. No, it did not come w/optional wooden stocks, but the machine work and the bluing appear to be quality work. Nine round cylinder, grooved trigger and target sights.
Unfortunately the GCA of 68 put the quietus on Astra in the US, as I understand.
If the .357 sez, Made in Argentina then I would run like the wind. If not and in good shape it would top out at three bills for me.
The south of the border Comanche seems to have been offered in model I, II & III. In the 2005 shooter's bible the mod II .357 in 3, 4 or 6" brl ran for $259 in blue & $284 stainless.
I don't know anything about the long neck goats that they use for golf caddies...
------------
Bersa is out of Argentina and it appears that they joined at least for a period of time with Llama in production of the semi-auto Firestorm that shows up on the Bersa website.
Gabilondo, "Llama" is manufactured in Victoria, Spain.
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One of the gun writers from a few years back wrote often of the Spanish handguns and always spoke well of them,,Geo. Nonte.
He did so with a vested interest in them though. Aside from personal interest and like for them, I understand he had financial connections to the importer(s) at the time. Not an unusual situation, but one to consider when reading his articles.
That said, The Llama revolvers are decent guns but will run hot and cold in the QC dept just as their semiautos will. Some will be extremely nice quality specimens and others only so-so with mechanical and finish problems.
Resale value on the llamas has generally been low on them over the years as the price of a decent S&W or Colt revolver is not that far away from the asking price of the llama.
The products of Star & Astra are generally considered the better quality of the 3 major Spanish makers but they all suffer from the 'Spanish Gun' lable which drags their values down.
I personally like many of the Spanish made handguns and own or have owned some by all three makers. You just have to judge each individually and balance the price against what else is available for the same money. The small semiautos are most interesting to me.
He did so with a vested interest in them though. Aside from personal interest and like for them, I understand he had financial connections to the importer(s) at the time. Not an unusual situation, but one to consider when reading his articles.
That said, The Llama revolvers are decent guns but will run hot and cold in the QC dept just as their semiautos will. Some will be extremely nice quality specimens and others only so-so with mechanical and finish problems.
Resale value on the llamas has generally been low on them over the years as the price of a decent S&W or Colt revolver is not that far away from the asking price of the llama.
The products of Star & Astra are generally considered the better quality of the 3 major Spanish makers but they all suffer from the 'Spanish Gun' lable which drags their values down.
I personally like many of the Spanish made handguns and own or have owned some by all three makers. You just have to judge each individually and balance the price against what else is available for the same money. The small semiautos are most interesting to me.
Here's an ad for the LLama. It claims the frame is forged.
Vintage Paper Ads - 1976 Llama Comanche .357 Magnum Revolver Gun Ad
Vintage Paper Ads - 1976 Llama Comanche .357 Magnum Revolver Gun Ad
Nicksterdemus
Member
In the 4th edition of Pistols of the World, 2004 it states that Gabilondo, "Llama" produced the Comanche I, II & III along with the Super Comanche.
The Super Comanche was an enlarged Comanche built on a large frame with a heavier barrel, wide-faced trigger, a broader hammer spur and "oversized" target style grips.
SC-IV 1977-2000 was a 44 mag.
SC-V 1977-88 .357, brl 4-8.5" only in blue w/walnut stocks.
The business failed in 1992.
In January 2000 stockholders & ex-employees formed Fabrinor SAL and produce around 20,000, in comanche and Super Comanche only with most imported to the US.
In 2005 they shut the doors unable to pay off the old debt.
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LLAMA - Fabrinor S.A.L.
The Super Comanche was an enlarged Comanche built on a large frame with a heavier barrel, wide-faced trigger, a broader hammer spur and "oversized" target style grips.
SC-IV 1977-2000 was a 44 mag.
SC-V 1977-88 .357, brl 4-8.5" only in blue w/walnut stocks.
The business failed in 1992.
In January 2000 stockholders & ex-employees formed Fabrinor SAL and produce around 20,000, in comanche and Super Comanche only with most imported to the US.
In 2005 they shut the doors unable to pay off the old debt.
----
LLAMA - Fabrinor S.A.L.
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Texas Star
US Veteran
Here's a comment from a Super Comanche owner on The High Road:
Are Llama Comanche Action Parts Cast? - THR
Hope it helps.
T-Star
Are Llama Comanche Action Parts Cast? - THR
Hope it helps.
T-Star
