Hi:
I am hoping I am not "Hi-Jacking" another Forum Member's discussion.
Please correct me if I am wrong- but is the Mass Shooting of innocents committed in places where firearms and CCW is are not allowed?
At the entrances to these places signs are posted that plainly state that firearms are not permitted. Therefore, left wing liberals, anti-gun people, tree hugers, corrupt politicians and lawers, why is these murders happening??
Jimmy

Good question Jimmy!! I don't know if you will get any answers.There are no left wing liberals, anti gun nuts on this forum.
Just maybe a few tree hugers. Don

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"Don't worry be happy"

God, I hope not, Don. Where will we get our grips from?
Jimmy, those signs are an open invitation to criminals, who we all know do not obey the law. That's WHY they're called criminals. It says to them "come in here and do whatever you want in complete safety and no one will try to stop you". Sorry. I'll have to explain later that I simply didn't see their sign about no guns allowed. At least I'll be alive (hopefully) to give a statement rather than being a chalk outline on the floor. Let the bad guy(s) handle that job. -Ed.

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Shoot the CPU, not the monitor

By the time the US gets it together it will be to late.

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Shoot fast & live long
Warren

I have met afew librals that enjoy and carry firearms, though I am not one of them.

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Just the opinion of a kid

I try to avoid bussinesses that dont allow me to be armed, though I beleive it is their right to post the sign just as much as it is mine not to give them my money. I feel safe in most government buildings where the cops are already there.

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Just the opinion of a kid

As tempting as it is to want to believe that most liberals are total morons devoid of practical sense ( and I agree, sometimes it's hard NOT to believe that) the truth is most of us would have a hard time disagreeing on many of the things that 'liberals' support, leading to the unfortunate observation that the schism between liberal and conservative isn't as wide as it sometimes appears. It's just a very few defining issues that marks the extreme boundaries in the classification.

Let me see if I can succinctly draw a line, Jimmy, between someone with a social conscience and a congenital idiot who denies the truth and facts because their defective minds cannot grasp common sense.

The best and shortest explanation is one I heard and adopted several years ago is . . . (for purposes of this discussion the term 'liberal' here in this context refers to a specific type, not to tar everyone who may lean slightly Left with the same brush) . . . . With a few select 'hot-button' issues the following sums it up - "Liberals actually seem to believe they can live in the world as they wish it was, not as it is".

This would explain how so many get almost orgasmic at the sentiment espoused by John Lennon's "Imagine". This would explain why they believe 'gun control' would somehow actually work. This would explain why after mountains of evidence attesting to the destructive nature of their 'benevolence' that the Great Society experiment of the '60's has been a colossal failure resulting in the annihilation of the traditional family unit in many instances. We could go on . . .

You cannot legislate common sense, though you apparently can legislate the promotion of incompetence and idiocy. These folks are to be pitied for their obvious mental disease, but not to the point that we have, where we have actually allowed them to be taken seriously in many circles.

To address your specific question posited to liberals - "Therefore, left wing liberals, anti-gun people, tree huggers, corrupt politicians and lawyers, why are these murders happening??" . . . you cannot expect an answer to your rhetorical question based on truth, facts and logic when the ones being questioned do not accept the basic premise and reality from which you ask and choose not deal in such when forming their answers.

To quote Adam Savage, a liberal would say "I reject your reality and substitute my own !"

Short answer is we create shooting zones by banning guns from certain areas. Only bad guys will carry guns into those areas. Then we extend the gun free zone by saying one cannot have a gun within a 1,000 feet of the property that the gun free zone. The reason there are gun free zones is due to mass shootings taking place in such locations and the liberals think the solution is in banning guns from those locations.

As to liberals being on here, there are some very die hard liberals on this site and every other site, along with sitting in every church, living in every neighborhood and working in all professions.

Many of the liberals do not feel them to be liberal but they are and only conservative in the areas of life they want to be.

I now have to say though that most mass shootings do NOT take place in gun free zones.

I believe gun control proponents are barking up the wrong tree so to speak. They concentrate on banning guns from certain places, schools etc... I think they believe that if you are carrying a firearm you have bad intentions. Then when mass shooting happen they are so stuck in a flawed thought process they believe that more restrictions are needed. I believe guns should not be banned because some think they are unacceptable socially in certain places. Guns should be restricted where they would cause a greater danger. Let me give an example. If I worked loading gasoline tanker trucks a hand gun would be very counter productive if I had to defend myself while working.

Look at the VA Tech massacre and draw your own conclusions.

These monsters are crazy, not stupid. They don't want to get into a gunfight. They want to kill a bunch of helpless people before they die, usually by their own hand. Have you noticed that they never seem to turn up at police stations, the JFK Center or the Steel Challenge? Even Maj. Nidal Hassan went where he knew NOBODY would be armed.

And I'm a non-leftist liberal. Telling a woman that it's better for her to be beaten, raped and murdered than for her to defend herself with a firearm doesn't seem at all "liberal" to me. Misogynistic, Islamist maybe, but not liberal.

...problem are multitudinous.

Most people "educated" in the public schools over the years, have been taught that the police will somehow protect them in times of duress. They trust authoritative figures such as police and political leaders.

During their "education" they either ignored or failed to grasp critical systemic and linear thinking skills necessary to survive in a so-called civilized world.

Trust and some ceding of individual rights are necessary in order to have and maintain a civil society. We accept zoning laws and regulations so we can peacefully co-exist with our neighbors. We voluntarily pay taxes so we can have trash pickup, fire protection, and police who take reports and arrest bad people.

However, with the tax payments people have come to expect near-complete security in the home. They never see a disconnect between the police taking a report and maybe arresting a bad guy, and the need to deter criminals from committing crimes in the first place.

Police actually deter people publicly from their own protection. Give up the jewelry; don't confront the criminal. "We don't want our community to become another Dodge City or Tombstone." Well, folks, people died in Dodge City and Tombstone, despite guns being confiscated by the town marshals. The question then becomes, "At what point does one resist?

Little, or no protection comes at a huge cost.

Yesterday, in Grand Rapids, Michigan, a convicted felon murdered seven people, wounded two others, led police on a wild chase, barricaded himself in a stranger's home with hostages, before killing himself. He was babied in the criminal justice system. I guess his victims thought the police and the personal protection orders would be enough. Oh yes, he was a convicted felon, yet in the possession of a handgun and lots of ammunition. Do you think the police will ever punish the person who sold him the gun? Don't make book on it.

Maybe Jeff Cooper's writings should be mandatory teaching in school.

Criminals don't follow laws , rules , regulations , commandments , etc.

Gun-free zones are nothing more than free-fire zones for those who want to make headlines.

But then again , a crowd of 100,000 with 10,000 persons of dubious firearms training carrying guns might not be the best place to be when 1 wacko decides to go on a shooting spree.

I also don't believe that a citizen with a legally carryed firearm has the responsibility to play hero , or LEO if something happens like the AZ shooting.

For the untrained , throwing shots under stressful conditions in a crowded venue could do more harm than good. Hitting other innocent bystanders comes to mind. Even if you hit the intended target , overpenetration is also a concern. As would be a civil suit afterward by anyone wounded.

Of course , depending on the actual overall scenerio , unless an actors eyes and muzzle are going to be focused on me , I'm probably not going to draw/fire.

I personally think it would be better to allow carry everywhere and that I believe would make people think twice about doing anything stupid because they wouldn't know who was armed.

I was shopping last week with my wife. Another man, about my age, walked passed me and I noticed (it wasn't very obvious, you have to know what to look for, as you all are aware) that he was carrying (so was I). My first thought was "good for you" and a feeling that I am not alone. I was next to him at the checkout later, he gave me a quick smile and nod (I'm sure he figured me out as well), and I returned it. There is a bond among us that most people will never understand, something difficult to describe, but just as real. Bless the 2nd Amendment.

John Lott has some interesting and informative writings on this very subject. Here's one:

John Lott's website

There will be links to his other Op Eds at the site.

Gun Control & Mass Murders: Gun Control and Mass Murders - John R. Lott Jr. - National Review Online

Multiple Victim Public Shootings... with link to PDF of study: Multiple Victim Shootings Study

Bureau of Justice links: Bureau of Justice Statistics Homicide trends in the U.S.: Multiple victims and offenders

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Bob

I had the stray thought that if Rep. Gabrielle Giffords was a Republican, holding the same rally, there would be a number of CCW in the crowd. No further legalitys needed.

Wish I did.

I had to go to the courthouse, the other day. I left my gun in the car. Left my pocketknife. Forgot my leatherman, so had to go back to the car, because I could not bring that dangerous inch and a half knife blade in.

While I was there I watched the UPS guy roll a hand truck filled with boxes in. FedEx guy the same thing. Also a lawyer - at least I suppose he was a lawyer. Suit and tie, hand truck loaded with file boxes. None of them went through the metal detector. So, what was in those boxes? Guns? Knives? Grenades? No one knows.

Boy, I sure felt safer because of the security.

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I always take precautions

One of the first on the scene was an armed and ready civilian, Joe Zamudio.

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Bob

...I am reminded of John Wayne in "The Shootist" when he was asked why he only carried five rounds in his Colt SAA...his response was "You carry six if your gut tells you to..." I take that kind of philosophy when I CCW whether the place has a "no guns" sign posted or not. For instance, a courthouse, post office, where there is an off-duty LEO providing security, etc. However, we live in dangerous times...there are some places I have to go to take care of biz that have "well-deserved reputations" and have the "no guns" signs posted. I maintain a low profile and DO NOT ADVERTISE...who's to know whether I'm packing or not.

If, God forbid a worst case scenario occurred at one of these places and I was left with no recourse...I intend on going home at the end of the day and if my family is with me...then their safety is my foremost responsibility. I will do what I have to do and let the grand jury decide the matter after the fact.

I got my CCW not as a guy going out for trouble...I got it as an insurance policy against it. While my friends and family all know I pack (yes, even BEFORE it was legal)...there is absolutely NO reason for anyone else to know. This applies only to me and I am fully aware of the consequences.

I only have one life. I intend on living that life. Regretably, that often means these days being legally armed.

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The Last Standing Knight

This will make 10 two-sided cards. Right click (PC/Mac) or Control Click (Mac) to download. Print one side on card stock, flip the printed paper and print again. Trim to separate and leave a couple where they're needed.

Lazy way, take the image to a copy shop and let them do the work.

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Bob

Based on the rest of this crooks resume, what makes you think he "bought" the gun in the first place? He was a criminal with a record, he certainly didn't purchase it through any legal means.

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- Change it back -

Unless they live in Detroit
Graphic video shows Detroit cop station shooting - US news - Crime & courts - msnbc.com

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Just the opinion of a kid

Ha, you may take note of the fact there was no comma in my statement. I don't feel safe in all government buildings with police already there. I trust our local Sheriff's Department, where seasoned deputies are chosen for security. I also know their firearms instructor, and trust he has trained them well. I dont trust the police across the river at all when it comes to firearms. They were resently involved in a shooting in which a man popinted a pelet gun at them(looked real enough so not my beef), they opened fire hitting him twice, with, I beleive, between 7 and 10 shots fired. the rest of the bullets went into a parking garage, hitting several cars and breaking windows. Thank God nobody was getting in to or out of their cars at the moment. The "suspect" released a statement that it was the stupidest thing he'd ever done the following day.

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Just the opinion of a kid

This is a good first hand account

YouTube - ‪Suzanna Gratia Hupp explains meaning of 2nd Amendment!‬‏

I was aware of that incident, but it's such an outlier that it doesn't really refute what I said. It's like the guy who falls 10,000+ feet into a snowbank without a parachute and survives. Not many military aircrew would stop wearing parachutes on the basis of that case.

Overwhelmingly, mass killers avoid places where there's a good chance that they could be eliminated before they kill many people. One example is the neo-Nazi who rejected one target in favor of another because the first had armed guards.

I keep waiting for Al Qaeda or a wannabe to shoot up some public gathering in Chicago. Certainly they're not being deterred by fear of the Chicago PD. The fact that they didn't shoot up the crowds at the Ford City Theater (while disguised as police and shouting anti-Hispanic epithets) when I was there at Christmastime to see "Sherlock Holmes" owes FAR more to their pathetic ignorance of us as their enemy than to any reasoned fear that they'd be quickly neutralized. In fact, in that venue, they'd face a MUCH greater threat from gang members than police.

I was only pointing out some people are both crazy and stupid. I agree, I was more so saying that things are scary in Detroit. I personaly won't be passing through there unarmed.

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Just the opinion of a kid

Hi,

I will try to be brief with this one.

Why does Senator Chuck Schumer (a strict gun control Senator from New York State) have a permit to carry a concealed weapon?

Perhaps, I can be trusted, but you can't.

Many politicians who are "anti gun" have concealed carry permits or body guards who carry firearms. I hate their hypocrisy.