http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/Ghost_and_the_Darkness,_The

Here are a pair of Lee-Speed hunting rifles. Speed was a man's last name, although I forget what role he played in the rifles' development.

These were less expensive (usually) than the Mauser-actioned rifles for more powerful cartridges, and they took the full ten-round military magazine, if you might have trouble with natives or a pride of lions. (The lower rifle here has a five-shot sporting magazine.)

The .303 is effective on most African antelope, leopard, even larger animals, with expert use and good bullets. Bell and others killed elephants with rifles like these!

One was used by Val Kilmer as Lt. Col.Patterson, VC, in a movie depicting the killing of the Tsavo man-eaters. ("The Ghost and the Darkness") The real Patterson, in fact, did use a .303 sporter very like these. I have his book about that adventure.

The upper rifle has a long rib on the barrel, a feature that I could have lived without.

I've never seen one of these in person, but would like to have one made on a No 1 MK III action, if I ever make a fortune writing books or win a sweepstakes. They're definitely classier than the later sporters made up by Parker-Hale. I have seen and handled those.

Well, here they are: part of the romance of a bygone era in hunting and exploration.


T-Star

There's precious little I don't like about those rifles.
Whether as sporters or military!

I love vintage English and European Sporting Rifles. These are no exception.

The proportions just seem to work.

Or as my friend and fellow gun enthusiast would say...Those really blow my skirt up!

The vintage Brit and European sporters are a true joy. The Afrikaaner farmers used to hunt with rifles in military configuration. Sadly I have only one Enfield, a No.4, Mk II in non modified condition. I have deer hunted with it successfully several times.

Charlie

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SWCA # 2294

nice very nice. my jungle carbine shoots 174 sierra match with 45 gr. imr4350 into 3/4 in. all day. it is scoped and has a bolt on vintage s&k mount.

My father-in-law bought a No.4 Mk1 years ago from a Roses Store. It's a Savage with a 1942 date on it. He said by the time they stopped giving all the discounts he thought they were going to pay him to take the rifle. Sadly, he died before he ever got the chance to shoot it.

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Why duck?? It's a 9mm!

This is an old topic and Imdb deleted my photo link. To see the sporters, try the movie gun link and look under guns used in, "The Ghost and the Darkness."

Also, if you followed the Australian-made series, "Sir Arthur Conan Doyle's The Lost World", Rachel Blakely, playing Marguerie Krux, had a .303 sporter probably made up in Australia after the 1950's, as it had a Monte Carlo stock. It resembled the Parker-Hale postwar sporters. A villain on that show in the episode, "Trophies" had a sort of Bubba'd No.1 MK III sporter just made by cutting down the issue stock. (Lord Roxton had modern hunting rifles. I thnk one was made on a P-14 action and another may have been a Sako Safari Grade.)

The genuine sporting rifles made usually before and soon after WW I were much classier than the later Parker-Hale items , and had better checkering and stylishly shaped stocks. I just saw on Gunboards that a genuine original in nice shape may now bring easily over $1,000.

A few years back I saw a Lee-Speed sporter at the Houston gun show. It was every bit as gorgeous as you describe, and priced accordingly.

Hunted with a jungle carbine in Pennsylvania, have a #4MKII and a sporterized long branch #4 MKI thats waiting for me to bed the forestock.
Love the enfields. Frank

I like original, unmolested #1MKIII's. A nice Ishapore 2A or 2A1 is usually a good shooter, too.

If you don't have at least one, you're missing out. Love 'em .303 SMLE, built like a Mack truck, drives like a Rolls Royce, stone cold killers for ANY game on the planet.

Cheers;
Lefty

I have a Mk 4, #1 (or is it the other way around?), good shooting rifle but too long and too heavy to carry in the woods.

I'm seriously thinking about seeing if I can get it converted to a short 45-70; a box magazine Enfield in 45-70 would be the shiznit for hunting hogs.

Kilmer's rifle, was if I recall correctly, a commercially made .303 sporting rifle from the start, rather than any sort of conversion of a military rifle. Today in the United States when we see the term "Enfield Sporter", many people will think of "sporterized" Enfield military rifles as made by Goldenstate, et al in the 50s on through modern times (such as the application of ATI stocks). However, originally there were British gunmakers - who were sometimes busy making military rifles on contract to the government - that would turn out commercial rifles of good to best quality on the same action as the military was using at the time. These guns will be significantly more expensive compared to later "sporterized" specimens. Though from time to time a bargain can be had when someone doesn't know what they have.

My own Enfield Sporter is part No 4 Mk2, part Jungle Carbine, and part misc bits of wire and screws.

Please don't do that. Too many have been butchered, and those in original military condition are becoming more scarce and valuable.

I think you'd find the recoil unpleasant, and feeding might be unreliable, too. Just buy a normal hunting rifle in .30/06 or a similar caliber, and I think you'll be fine.Leave that SMLE for posterity; it's a piece of history. Don't ruin it. You might think of restoring it if the condition needs that. New wood, etc. in standard configuration.

Gator-

Yes, Val KIlmer's .303 rifle in, "The Ghost and the Darkness" was a commercial Lee-Speed sporter. BSA and others, probably even Holland & Holland, made these on the service .303 action. Except that they used the .303 action, not a Mauser '98, these were much like other fine British hunting rifles of that day. It is probably very like the .303 that the real Patterson had, and which he mentioned in his account of the incident, "Man-Eaters of Tsavo."

W.D.M. Bell had one, as did John Alfred Jordan, author of, "Elephants and Ivory." Both used other rifles, but found the .303 very effective. It wasn't clear in Alexander Lake's books if he used the sporters at times or the military version. He said that he was on a rifle team in South Africa and shot in matches and had several .303's, with which he also hunted.

However, I've heard it said that Lake may not have been all that he appeared to be. Without being able to confirm either his accounts or rumors to the contrary, I won't risk further speculation. But I didn't read of him doing anything with a .303 that I consider to be unlikely. I did think it very odd that he suggested using softnose ammo on elephant, with the idea that he could shoot one in the roof of the mouth and it'd penetrate. Elephant seldom offer such a shot when charging, and the man whom he criticized for using hardnose ammo was probably right to do so. He just needed better marksmanship and a heavier rifle. As was, I think he got stomped into the red African earth so effectively that his remains resembled nothing human when found. Elephant hunting is not for amateurs. He probably had military ammo, too, and the bullet was designed to yaw, to create more severe wounds in human targets. You want a more true course with the bullet when hunting heavy game! Also, the frontal brain shot on elephant must strike a pretty small gap in the skull. It requires sound knowledge of elephant anatomy and cool, precision marksmanship.

I also doubt Lake's assertion that one should shoot hippo in the water through the nostrils as they yawn at you, in a threat display. Even from the deck of a lake steamer (which was involved in the event that he described) getting the right angle for that seems unlikely. Maybe that's one of the cases where a softnose bullet into the roof of the mouth might work?

My only .303 now is a service No. 4 MK II made by Fazerkely Arsenal in 1952. It's in nice condition, and I have NO plans to "sporterize" it. It has a white rack number painted on the butt, so I guess it saw active service. If I ever get a .303 sporter, it'll be made up like one of those built as a hunting rifle from scratch by a famous British gun maker about 1920. It'll be built on a No 1 MK III action. But unless I start selling bestselling novels like Jack Higgins or John Sandford do, it'll probably remain a dream.
Still, if it's ever done, it'll be done right. My name isn't "Bubba."

It's the other way around! The No. 1 is the basic short Lee-Enfield. The No. 2, I don't know about, maybe experimental. Rifle no. 3 is the Pattern 14 Enfield, a Mauser system.

I ran a thread a while back about a guy who walked into a local gun show with an 8 3/4" registered magnum that had belonged to his grandfather. Had the certificate and tube, and an old shoulder holster as well.

He was also carrying an old rifle, the likes of which I had never seen before. I could tell him about the RM, but I sure couldn't tell him about this one, though it was obviously a Lee action of some sort and an old one at that. Well I'll be darned but I learn from this thread that it was a Lee-Speed sporter, and a really nice one at that. This one was in .303 and was probably in about 90% condition with a really fine piece of wood, excellent checkering and very tasteful engraving. It was clearly built from scratch as a sporter - it was not a converted military rifle. I may have to give that ol' boy a call and see if he'd like to part with it. I've never been that crazy about SMLE military rifles, but this was one cool British sporting rifle!

My only 303 is a 1915 issue No. 1 MkIII made by Lithgow. It still has the mag cut-off and volley fire sights. I ordered it from Hunter's Lodge over fifty years ago. It cost $9.95 and about $3.00 for shipping via Railway Express.

I hear you. I already have a 30-06 (a Springfield 03-A3 that someone "sporterized well before my father bought it back in the early '70's). 45-70 is what I want.

Anyone have a 45-70 Enfield they want to trade for a No. 4 Mk 1?

If you can find an already sporterized Enfield, then there is really no harm in resporterizing it into a .45-70 or whatever you want. Assuming that it is a safe conversion of course. I've heard of them being made into one caliber or another, though not that often. The cost of the conversion, unless you're handy and have tools laying around would probably make it seem like a good idea to see if a Marlin Guide Gun would suit your needs first.

Not that I can talk. I have a Carcano that I am determined to one day make into a .35 Remington.

I think Navy Arms Co. used to offer converted SMLE's in .45/70.

You might look for one. Be a lot cheaper than converting one.

Good luck.

You can never have enough Enfields, but if any of you feel you have too many, send them to me.

Already got one of those, why do you think I like the 45-70 Gov't?

I just don't have much use for a real long or heavy rifle - I was weak when I bought my Enfield all those years ago, what can I say. Light and handy is where it's at for back woods hog hunting.

I'll have to look around for one of those Navy Arms or Gibbs rifles.

Thanks,

Just picked one up yesterday. No1 Mkiii, well done with pretty nice wood. Have not shot it yet but hopefully it will be good. Barrel did clean up pretty nice. I am hopeful.

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All Rights Reserved

I've got a couple of Lee Sporters. A 303 w/5 shot magazine and BSA tang safety (they work backwards!).
Metford style bolt (no safety on cocking piece).
These were made on the older Long Lee Enfield style action which did not have a safety on it as originally manufactured.
The very first of the Military Lee Metfords had a left side safety not unlike the familiar NoMkIII safety,,but it was quickly deleated as 'unnecessary'.
The cocking piece thumb wing safety didn't appear untill the Lee Metford was transformed over to the Lee Enfield.
Apparently you weren't to chamber a round till Sgt-Major instructed you too.

Both styles of bolts were available on the Sporters as well as the sporter style tang safety.
5 or 10 shot magazine, 3 different main rifle styles w/ just about any extra you'd care to pay for.

303, 8x50R, 375 Express, 32-40 and I believe a 7mm cartridge (7x57?)were standard offerings.

My other is a 350 Express caliber 2 1/4" case. Extra thin rimmed case which I haven't quite figured out yet. That one has seen some use and needs a do-over as they say.
I put an SMLE 410 bbl for the time being to get some use out of it at the skeet range. It'll feed the second round from the magazine most of the time w/o any problem.

I sold another 303 w/a 10 shot mag that I probably should have kept. But the man had a lot of money on the table!

I'll see if I can dig one or both out an take a pic or two. Might even have a poor quality old picture saved. I'll check.

I love the SMLE, period. I have a No 4 that I had cut down (don't hate me) to 20 inches and I put it in a synthetic stock. It is the rifle I hunt with and my favorite.

I found some (poor) pics of my Lee Sporters.

5 shot mag , 303 cal . Metford cocking piece but with optional top tang safety




10 shot mag, 303 cal (Army & Navy CSL Marked)
No safety at all on the rifle other that a half cock on the sear,,and that is to catch the cocking piece should the sear fail. Same idea as the 1911 pistol.
This is the one I've sold



10 shot magazine 350 Express caliber thin 'flanged' case
Original bbl detached,,An SMLE No1MkIII '410 guage' bbl in it's place for some skeet use. Slightly modified the SMLE front sight so it didn't pattern 2 ft low. Never did blue it of course.
Nice wood under the grime. Need to get at this one and quit shooting silly skeet birds with it.
.350 bore/ .358 groove dia


Commercial BSA CLLE (Charger Loading Lee Enfield). Not a sporter of sorts but a Commercial rifle. Made for civilian sales,,not a Military marked or redone surplus rifle. Very accurate. Still sighted for eariler Mk6 ammo (rear sight way up for Mk7 stuff). Has volley sights, ect. Everything the comparable Brit issue military model would have. Just the thing for the fledging Home Guard Unit Trooper.
Original 1914 marked Brit leather sling. The canvas slings were introduced in WW1 due to the quick deterioration of the usual leather slings in the wet muddy environment of the trenches. Original leather slings from WW1 years are scarce.
Retailer marked as it #1 but I can't recall either right now!
I love the golden years..


One other Commercial BSA. A MkI*.
That's the early SMLE with the sliding charger guide. But I don't have a pic.
As a Military rifle the MkI* was only around for a few years,,perhaps 1905 to 1907,,when the MkIII edition came out .
It didn't become the "No1" rifle (MkIII) till around 1927.

My No1 MK III

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Dave

2152HQ-

These are just the sort of photos that I had in mind! How wonderful!

I also had one of those No. 1 MK 1* military rifles. Had a sliding charger guide on the bolt. It was in pretty poor condition. I paid just $9.95 for it in the 1960's and sold it later. Had I not ordered by mail (legal then), I'd not have bought it. That experience taught me not to buy guns sight unseen!

The sporters here are just what I imagine that character Marguerite Krux would have had on, The Lost World, had the property man found one in Australia that was for rent at a movie gun shop. Several characters have them in my fan fiction about that show. I want to make up one someday from a nice SMLE barrelled action, if I get rich.

Few of these rifles made it here, and many in former colonial countries and the UK have probably been destroyed.

You are fortunate to have those. I'll see if I can find anything on that .350, probably a low pressure round to work in the Lee action, which won't take as much pressure as a Mauser will. I'm sure that damaged sales a lot. But in the original .303, they work fine.

Thanks for posting those! They're probably the first that most members have seen.

Reinforced for grenade launching with that wire wrapping, and with the grenade cup in place...

My very first rifle was a Lee Enfield "sporter" with a cut down stock from Springfield Sporters for $90 in 1998 (?). Sweet handling & nicely refinished. I still have her!! A lot of money at the time for college student.

Great Topic!!

As an Aussie, the .3003 Enfield is to us like a .30/06 to you guys.

I have a couple of .303 in my rack, an unfired No4mk2, and a near pristine No5 mk1 Jungle carbine.

However, there are no shortage of sporterised .303 around this neck of the woods!!

On my hit list is a pristine Lithgow Number 1mk3*, made between 41-45. They turn up from time to time, so eventually I will find one.

Cheers,

Aussie D

I saw a 'Mad Minute' demo at a rifle match many years ago.
This Brit was firing a No.1 Mk.III.
45 rounds in 60 seconds. But he only hit the target 40 times.
He seemed disappointed.

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Field Researcher. IGC

I think the record for what became known as the Mad Minute is 38 hits on the 12 inch target in one minute with the SMLE.

But that was done at the range of 300 yards,,the original course of fire for the 'Mad/Minute'.

A passing score on the course was 15 hits on the 12" target at 300yrds.

Prone position, iron sights, sling not used by shooter to enhance accuracy, reloading w/standard 5 round chargers.
Start with rifle loaded w/10 rds.

1914 was the year and I believe it's still their Service record for that particular event w/a bolt action.
Done by an Ordnance Sgt at the time.

Similar scores in the high 20's and into the 30's (hits on target in 1 minute) were not uncommon it is said.

Not too shabby. That 12" target is mighty small out there at 300yds!

I once heard this anology made.

If you wanna go huntin take a k98.
If you wanna shoot targets take an 03A3.
If you wanna go to battle take a SMLE.

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I watched the movie for the first tme over the weekend after seeing this thread. Good movie! Excellent suspense and atmosphere.