I don't want to interfere with XFuzz's Alamo topic, so will post this here. We'll hear both the movie version of, "El Deguello" and the authentic Mexican version, played at the Alamo, to indicate that all the defenders were to be slain; the song signals that no quarter will be given.

I thought this might be of interest.

Movie version, also heard in several other Western movies: YouTube - Lele Lauter in "Deguello"

Authentic Version: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VE1yd...eature=related

Very interesting.......I never knew about this. The song is hauntingly beautiful but with such a dreadful meaning. The Alamo defenders were a ballsy group to say the very least.

What surprises a lot of our out-of-state friends and family that we take to visit the Alamo is when they learn that the Mexican army of 1836 was considered the 4th largest army in the world. Sure, they had conscripted peasants as cannon fodder, but they also had professionally trained and equipped officers and troops as well.

Regards,

Dave

Having visited the Alamo several times, I was always amazed at how small it is, especially when the overwhelming odds are considered.

My first thought was, "they defended this little place for almost two weeks?"

I recommend visiting near sundown. You can palpably feel the historical awe.

What a thing it must have been to hear the trumpets so near, so certain, and so final.

Len

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Qui me amat, amet et canem meum

Considering that they knew the place was indefensible . . . Wow.

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VIVERE MILITARE EST

The "authentic" version sounded like a synthesizer to me. Sure wasn't a bugle or even a trumpet. I don't think the Mexicans had any electronic keyboards at the battle.

The Mexicans must have had an easy time sneaking up on them, what with all those tall buildings around it.

Travis and Bowie knew that the Mexicans were coming, but Santa Anna arrived in force sooner than expected. Travis had been pleading for reinforcements for a long time before the Mex. forces arrived.

Col. Fannin set out to reinforce the Alamo, but his transport wagons (what there were) got stuck,and he returned to Goliad. (Maybe Gonzales; I'd have to check.) His artillery also was unable to be transported.

Whatever the instruments were in the song, the tune is the authentic one. I think one instrument is a muted trumpet.

The text of the Mexican link is very informative, if biased.

The original Alamo complex was much larger. Only the central chapel now stands.

T-Star

Santa Anna was an incompetent egotist. He didn't need to take the Alamo. He could have bottled up the defenders with a fraction of his forces and continued his pursuit of Sam Houston. The defenders knew what was going to happen before the Mexicans got there. That was their job - delay Santa Anna at all costs to allow Houston to raise an army. The wisdom of that was apparent by the victory at San Jacinto, a battle that my great great grandfather took part in.

Buck

There used to be a brass strip set in the sidewalk across the street from the Alamo, on Alamo Plaza, that delineated the original boundary walls of the Alamo. Don't know what buildings are there now, on the corner diagonal from the Post Office used to be a Woolworths. There was a Rexall Drugstore on the corner across from it as I recall.

I worked at Hemisfair in '68, remember walking down there at night to where I parked the car. It's an interesting place to be walking along at 2 in the morning. One's imagination runs wild when you're only 18.

As I recall, Houston had told Travis to abandon the Alamo and pull back since it could not be defended. Travis, being a fairly egotistical person, chose to disregard Houston and ...............

Fannin was an incompetent who could not make up his mind about leaving Goliad. His force actually left Goliad but forgot their supplies and had to return. Then delays occurred and the entire force surrendered to another Mexican force under one of Santa Ana's subordinate generals. Although they had surrendered, they were taken out in the woods and shot, the wounded were shot in the head as they lay in the hospital. As I recall, about 20 or 30 Texans escaped the slaughter and made their way to join Houston.

Gonzales actually did send a contingent to the Alamo, something like 30 men made their way to San Antonio, through the Mexican lines and reinforced Travis at the Alamo. They all died.

Only one man did not cross the line when Travis drew his famous line in the sand, Moses Rose, a former officer in Napoleons Army decided it wasn't in his best interest to remain, he slipped out of the fort that night and escaped. As I recall, he ultimately went back to France.

Santa Ana was actually enjoying his siesta at San Jacinto with a mulatto girl (whose name escapes me right now) who is the actual person for whom the song "The Yellow Rose of Texas" was written about. The Yellow refers to her being a mulatto or "yellow".

And, Deguello still sends a chill down the spine. It is actually a Moorish tune, played by the Moors during the conquest of Spain and adopted by the Spanish and ultimately, the Mexican Army.

Isn't it amazing how much of that 7th grade Texas History sticks with you ?


Dan R

Asleep At The Wheel has a very chilling version on their "Remember The Alamo" album. Probably my favorite version.

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Non illegitimae carborundum

What you see when you visit the Alamo today is just a small part of what the defenders controlled during the battle. The defensive walls were much more extensive than what still exists. Here is a link to a artist rendition of what the site looked like before the battle.

http://members.cox.net/worthingtonga...alAlamoMap.jpg

Is it true Santa Ana had a cocaine problem?

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Regards,
Lee Jarrett

The mulatto girl was named Emily Morgan she did exist but the act maybe fictional.
IIRC..There was some mention Santa Ana used opium.

Opium seems more likely, and Santa Anna "married" (sham ceremony, and he already had a wife) a pretty local girl. After the post-nuptial night, he sent her to Mexico "for his old age". This is from, "The Alamo", by the late Lon Tinkle, which researched an enormous amount of records,both Texan and Mexican. This book originally was called, "Thirteen Days to Glory". It has an extensive biliography.
Many libraries should have it.

Some posts in this thread have been inaccurate, and I suggest readng this or a similar book to get the straight facts.

T-Star

I like Marty Robbins song about the Thirteen Days of Glory

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with wings as eagles

YouTube - Marty Robbins - Ballad Of The Alamo


This one?

YouTube - The Alamo - General Santa Anna - Original Soundtrack Written By Dimitri Tiomkin

Santa Anna's theme from John Wayne's movie

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbtKC...eature=related

"Deguello", as composed by Dmitri Tiompkin

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mi-qf...eature=related

Movie Trailer


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOVFb...eature=related

"THe Green Leaves of Summer"

The movie version hits the gut much harder than the "original".

Out West

We had the opportunity to visit the Alamo and left there with a huge lump in our throats.
I don't know how anyone can visit it and not come away with the same feeling.

The Alamo is a sacred pilgrimage site. Today, it is a rose garden, but that battle set the stage for the much quicker Battle of San Jacinto a few miles from where I sit and another sacred pilgrimage site in which the Mexican Army was routed - Santa Anna reportedly found hiding in a dress. It does not pay to underestimate your enemy. The US annexation of Texas later lead to the Spanish American War which led to the expansion of the U.S. to the Pacific and beyond. Not bad for a bunch of pissed off good old boys.

I visited The Alamo the day after Christmas 6 years ago. I was insulted by all the Mexican people walking around Laughing! Nothing about The Alamo is funny!

Ivan

Be honest about this! Bet you the young Anglos in the area were laughing and screwing around too! Probably even many under 45 YO. Nearly no one seems to have any respect for what are to many of us older citizens "Sacred sites", such as the Alamo. I like to hope members of this forum are exceptions to this!

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Gunsmithing since 1961

Not to mention what Ozzie Osborn did.

I had the privilege a few years ago to tour the Alamo Village which is the movie set for the 1960 John Wayne movie north of Brackettville, Texas. While going through the memorabilia and other stuff there I ran across a factoid that indicated "El Deguello" was just a tune that John Wayne liked and wanted in the movie. The same tune was also used in another John Wayne flick, seems like it was in Rio Bravo. The story about the meaning of the tune may be a myth spread by John Wayne.

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- Change it back -

The modern conservators don't like to be told they're wrong. There's a Deringer rifle on display that I told them twice was mislabeled; Derringer. It's still labeled that way on the accompanying card.

I just found out recently that a family I have known locally here in SE Arizona is descended from one of the Immortal 32 that came to the relief at the Alamo. His name was George C. Kimble. What a man he was, they had to have known their chances were not good, but they went anyway.

And paved streets to march right up to it.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

Does anybody know another place I can listen to the real thing?

Spanish music, especially with trumpets, can really get your attention that something dramatic is about to happen and somebody is gonna die.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

I am originally from CA. but moved to TX. quick as I could. I have lived in around San Antonio for 40 sum odd years, been to The Alamo many, many times and still come away awed.

A Shrine for sure.

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Slim, U.S. Army, Ret.

Old thread, but here's an animated show of how the fort looked:

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So many S&W's, so few funds!!

Can't access any of these.

Been to the Alamo twice. Most folks inside the actual chapel area were quiet and respective. The adjacent museum shop was a madhouse. In the shop is a diorama of the battle. It is very impressive.

They were posted in 2010. Probably no longer available.

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So many S&W's, so few funds!!

It was also predominently featured in: Rio Bravo--which is kind where John Wayne got his interest about going forward with making The Alamo. I love that movies theme song which is: The Green Leaves of Summer.

I have been to the Alamo twice and looked at the paintings of defenders. I spent some time there, and all the while I had this feeling, a sacred respect.
I felt the same at Civil War battlefield sites. I can't imagine how I would handle a visit to the Arizona or the WWII and Vietnam memorials.
Heck, I have some sand from the beach at Normandy that I can feel the blood and sacrifice it represents.
History, and a sense of history is not taught and is soon to be lost along with the pride and loyalty it teaches.

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"from my cold dead hands" C.H.

I posted that six years ago, and things change!


Search on YouTube and you can probably find the same songs posted by others. It's worth the trouble.

Try this link to the authentic version. Posted tonight, 1 Jan., 2017.


And this is the first time I wrote the digits for the new year!


Just typing El Deguello in the Search blank got many listings for both this and the John Wayne version.

Here's, The Green Leaves of Summer, from the movie, The Alamo, 1960.


Nothing to do with El Deguello, but a fine piece of music, nonetheless.


(A commercial may intrude at the first.)

The Green Leaves of Summer IS the finest piece of music ive ever heard. Its one that can get one to thinking and leave the eyes teary wet.

What surprised me was that it was right across the street from a Burger King. I was stationed at Ft. Sam for a while and whenever I didn't have anything better to do I went and walked around the Alamo

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Retired Career Security Guard

Brief overview of the battle.

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Retired Career Security Guard

Things come and go near the Alamo all the time. The last time I visited was a few years ago. Where booger king is was a saloon that had Western style shoot-outs there.

I remember what that scumbag Ozzie did, they should have showed him the business end of a Bowie knife.

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Remember the Alamo !

It might be well to remember that the battle for the Alamo, meaning to preserve it, lasted nearly a century or more.

No strong interest existed in it during the 19th Century.

The fight for money and support to save at least a portion of it went on and on.

It wasn't as if Texans were all huffing and puffing to save it starting in 1836 or through the next 100 years.

I'm glad part of it was preserved..

?????? What happened

Go on a March 6th for the reenactment.

There never has been a decent movie about the Alamo, IMO. And that's coming from a native Texan and history buff.

Ozzy is supposed to have pissed on a building on the Alamo grounds. Not the chapel. the last few years he has denied it ever happened.

ETA I did some research he apparently peed on the cenotaph outside the mission

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Retired Career Security Guard

Interestingly enough, I heard the same story in the late '60s from a fellow from New York. Said (in around 1960) he was driving through San Antonio,from down in Mexico going back to NYC, was lost, and needed desperately to relieve himself and was confronted by "a big Sheriff looking guy".
It was 3am. He was given directions to the highway, and told in no uncertain terms to only stop for gas until he reached the next state.
This tale was related to me in San Miguel de Allende by the nephew of Ramon Mercaders' lover. (Mercader was the guy that put an ice axe into Leon Trotskys skull)
The way Matty described it, I believe it was the wall facing the street acrossfrom the Gunter. (Edit: The Menger)

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