Mod10
US Veteran
I was looking at Nighthawk Custom and Wilson Combat. What makes these 1911s so pricey? Are they any better than what you would find from S & W or Kimber?
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Super Expensive 1911s
- Thread starter Mod10
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Yep...short answer...
But that depends on what your using the gun for.... They are superior as target guns, race guns, competition guns...
For a defensive gun...Meh! Give me a 1911 milspec that will feed anything, is a bit loose, cycle's everytime, never fails to feed, stovepipes, or has mag problems...
But that depends on what your using the gun for.... They are superior as target guns, race guns, competition guns...
For a defensive gun...Meh! Give me a 1911 milspec that will feed anything, is a bit loose, cycle's everytime, never fails to feed, stovepipes, or has mag problems...
shooboy
US Veteran
I bought a Metro Arms Tactical "American Classic II" a short time ago. It's got tons of great features that you would normally pay extra for, and is very well made. Nice polished blued finish, high precision slide to frame fit, etc. These can be had for about $440 on Gunbroker, and seem to me to be one of the best deals out there in 1911's. Check one out and see what ya think, Shoo
You want to see really pricey 1911s and such, forget Nighthawk and Wilson, and check out the work from Ted Yost and compratriots at Heirloom Precision in Tempe, AZ --- way into the "if you have to ask you can't afford it" category... I don't look there often, as I find it induces drooling...
Save yourself a lot of money and buy a Dan Wesson.
I'm serious.
I'm serious.
bobelk99
Member
To OP: Yes
Fit and finish not to be compared to standard production guns.
Value? Not to the average HD and fun range shooter.
My $.02 worth.
Fit and finish not to be compared to standard production guns.
Value? Not to the average HD and fun range shooter.
My $.02 worth.
I think its the same with plenty of other things out there as well since this is a "gun" forum I'll use Rifles for example ...I have plenty some cheap and some really expensive ...you pay for quality and accuracy as well....Good ole 700 Remmy will shoot with the best of them but let someone work and massage on it and put it in the 3k+ catagory it will consistantly shoot better and will feel better doing it.
I've had the Wilsons,Brown,Nighthawk and they are super nice but I didnt "need" one....If I was doing something other than plinking or carrying one I'd kept them....I think the mid line of 1911s are just fine for most...and my personal favortie is the Smith ...I think for the money they are hard to beat...second would be Detonics
I've had the Wilsons,Brown,Nighthawk and they are super nice but I didnt "need" one....If I was doing something other than plinking or carrying one I'd kept them....I think the mid line of 1911s are just fine for most...and my personal favortie is the Smith ...I think for the money they are hard to beat...second would be Detonics
beemerphile
Member
I received my Volkmann Custom Combatant Carry 1911 a couple of months ago and I can say that it is well worth it. Accuracy is incredible. Feeds anything. Looks like a million bucks. I wouldn't trade it for a boxcar load of Kimbers, Springers, S&W, Colt, Para, etc.
oldRoger
US Veteran
I have an SV-Infinity this pistol is a precision machine.
For example; the barrel (Schuemann)
Gain Twist rifling
Variable width lands
Optimum Feeding Angle curved ramp
Special chamber entrance chamfer
Forcing-Cone fluting
Golden Bronze colored Titanium Nitride finish (an Infinity ® exclusive)
That’s just the barrel the rest has the same attention to detail.
Does this have anything to do with a self-defense gun?
Absolutely not! What would I do if I had to use it self-defense and the police took it as evidence?
It is, I think like a beautifully engraved Model 44, it is a very fine machine which someone has done everything in his power to perfect.
Oh yes it shoots too.
For example; the barrel (Schuemann)
Gain Twist rifling
Variable width lands
Optimum Feeding Angle curved ramp
Special chamber entrance chamfer
Forcing-Cone fluting
Golden Bronze colored Titanium Nitride finish (an Infinity ® exclusive)
That’s just the barrel the rest has the same attention to detail.
Does this have anything to do with a self-defense gun?
Absolutely not! What would I do if I had to use it self-defense and the police took it as evidence?
It is, I think like a beautifully engraved Model 44, it is a very fine machine which someone has done everything in his power to perfect.
Oh yes it shoots too.
ElToro
Member
get yourself a used Colt for 500$ and send it in for their model O package... nite sights, flared port, springs, rounding of corners and general tune up. 600$
or a 3k custom
or a 3k custom
Crazy K38
Member
when you talk about Les Baer, Nighthawk Customs, Wilson Combat you are talking about guns that the fit and finish is more like a dream than physically possible. the rails have NO movement, the finish is totally unblemished and you can fire rounds 25yrds down range and put them in a quarter everytime. these guns are also custom meaning YOU design the specs on how they are built these guns are truly unbelievable. However for self and home defense I recommend a mid grade gun such as a high end Springfield or a Kimber of some sort
50 years experience has convinced me that if a 1911 is reliable with a chosen load and has decent sights and trigger, it's good. I went through Gunsite with a GI gun like that, and currently shoot a similar SA Mil-Spec. Owned a series 70 Gold Cup that was pretty but no more serviceable, and had Yost work over a LW Commander for me. It never ran right, and I dumped it.
Actually some of the best 1911 shooting I ever saw was a pair of force Recon Marines at Gunsite with scruffy old GI guns. A really cynical person would offer a comparison between guns and women at this point...
Actually some of the best 1911 shooting I ever saw was a pair of force Recon Marines at Gunsite with scruffy old GI guns. A really cynical person would offer a comparison between guns and women at this point...
BarbC
Member
I had lunch with JoniLynn one day and she almost persuaded me to buy a Les Baer that was guaranteed to shoot 2" groups, and even offered to hook me up with her salesguy. I swear I must have had a complete mental block when she said how much one was because I was totally blown away when I saw the website!
Thanks, Lynnie, thanks.
Thanks, Lynnie, thanks.
I have a lot of guns, both handguns and long guns. All but one are name brand guns. Most are factory models. Some are custom guns from Kimber, Clark and others. One was virtually made for me by a machine shop.
Having set the background, yes a quality gun is worth the price but a person would have to shoot a lot to enjoy the benefits of a smoother action, improved accuracy or feel.
I can shoot an off the shelf S&W a few hundred rounds to see how the accuracy runs and can compensate to get the same accuracy of a custom. The custom will have less recoil, better feel or such but then you would only appreciate that if you shoot almost daily or shoot competition.
You will find people will tell you to get the brand gun they have because it cannot be beat. Yes it can be beat. Just ask the next person what is the best gun to own.
The actual fact is a man needs to have at least one thing to please him in his life. A high end or custom gun is a lot cheaper to buy and own than a trophy wife. It will also last longer and be less trouble.,
Having set the background, yes a quality gun is worth the price but a person would have to shoot a lot to enjoy the benefits of a smoother action, improved accuracy or feel.
I can shoot an off the shelf S&W a few hundred rounds to see how the accuracy runs and can compensate to get the same accuracy of a custom. The custom will have less recoil, better feel or such but then you would only appreciate that if you shoot almost daily or shoot competition.
You will find people will tell you to get the brand gun they have because it cannot be beat. Yes it can be beat. Just ask the next person what is the best gun to own.
The actual fact is a man needs to have at least one thing to please him in his life. A high end or custom gun is a lot cheaper to buy and own than a trophy wife. It will also last longer and be less trouble.,
I built a few 1911s a long time ago, before every nickle and dime manufacturer got onto the gravy train. Most of the super custom models are a waste of money and effort. But then most of the off the shelf mass productiion models are junk now too.
If I were to buy one now, I'd get a cheap one that is made to mil-spec and rebuild it. Using only the bells and whistles that are really necessary and that I really wanted or needed. It's hard to find good parts now that aren't cast, in one way or another, so I drifted away from them.
If I were to buy one now, I'd get a cheap one that is made to mil-spec and rebuild it. Using only the bells and whistles that are really necessary and that I really wanted or needed. It's hard to find good parts now that aren't cast, in one way or another, so I drifted away from them.
As the others have already said, YES!
But, that depends on what you intend to use it for. The reason to buy the expensive custom gun is for competition use. I use mine for Bullseye, which requires 50 yard accuracy.
If the intent primarily defensive in the 7-10 yard range, then no, you are wasting your money. Most any pistol will have adequate accuracy at that distance.
I don't have a S&W, but do have a Kimber Supermatch. It is very accurate, but it is actually more expensive than some custom guns, which surprised me.
Some of the custom makers have "Hardball" models, which are designed for DCM service matches. The rules require a near - service pistol, without all the "extras" like mag wells, beaver tails, ambidextrous safeties, etc.
If you are interested in custom, this is the one to get. They are every bit as accurate as the high-end wadcutter guns, but you aren't paying for all the extra junk.
The last gun I got is a hardball gun, it was less expensive than my Kimber, and is a better gun. It is made from all tool-steel parts (no MIM), is a pure 1911A1 design (no Swartz safety), and doesn't have all the junk, which I prefer.
It is also absolutely reliable. I've had it for close to 2 years now, have put several 1000 rounds through it, and it has had no malfunctions of any kind.
A 1911 doesn't have to be loose to be reliable, it has to be built correctly.
NFrameFred
Member
Having owned custom 1911's back in my IPSC days and having owned sundry and various 1911's and clones over the last 40 years, my personal take is the price is not commensurate with what you get.
The fine line that these builders strive to straddle is maximum reliability while achieving match grade accuracy- and that is a very fine line since the two goals often work against each other in practice.
Keep in mind that match grade accuracy is the difference in a custom 1911 shooting a 2" group at 50 yards out of a Ransom Rest verses a production gun that only shoots a 3-to-4 inch group when machine rested. Whether or not your skills are up to wringing that extra smidge of accuracy out of such a gun in actual competition or a fight for your life kind of puts that into perspective. And as with all firearms, the load/ammunition used has as much to do with that accuracy as the gun, and there's another variable to consider since the 'match' ammo you might use isn't always the best choice for applications like self defense.
A Bullseye shooter (NRA Conventional Pistol to you purists) told me years ago concerning such, "when I do my part and hold the sites in a '9-ring wobble' at 50 yards when I pull the trigger, I don't want an '8'. "
What do you want to do with it and what are you willing to spend when the reality is that once you get past a certain dollar amount you are paying increasingly more for each increasingly smaller advantage ? And when you consider the 'niceties' of custom machine work and finish, what we're talking about here is paying for someone's time and handwork - not necessarily a 'better' weapon, just a better looking one.
In a purely economic sense custom guns are not worth what we pay for them but the aesthetics and the desire for something 'out of the ordinary' or 'elite' makes it worth it to some. I went through my competition years spending a bit more on custom work but decided in the long run an 'upgrade package' of an additional $1,500 or whatever didn't give me a significantly better gun than my commercial Colt 1911's in pretty much stock configuration.
YMMV
The fine line that these builders strive to straddle is maximum reliability while achieving match grade accuracy- and that is a very fine line since the two goals often work against each other in practice.
Keep in mind that match grade accuracy is the difference in a custom 1911 shooting a 2" group at 50 yards out of a Ransom Rest verses a production gun that only shoots a 3-to-4 inch group when machine rested. Whether or not your skills are up to wringing that extra smidge of accuracy out of such a gun in actual competition or a fight for your life kind of puts that into perspective. And as with all firearms, the load/ammunition used has as much to do with that accuracy as the gun, and there's another variable to consider since the 'match' ammo you might use isn't always the best choice for applications like self defense.
A Bullseye shooter (NRA Conventional Pistol to you purists) told me years ago concerning such, "when I do my part and hold the sites in a '9-ring wobble' at 50 yards when I pull the trigger, I don't want an '8'. "
What do you want to do with it and what are you willing to spend when the reality is that once you get past a certain dollar amount you are paying increasingly more for each increasingly smaller advantage ? And when you consider the 'niceties' of custom machine work and finish, what we're talking about here is paying for someone's time and handwork - not necessarily a 'better' weapon, just a better looking one.
In a purely economic sense custom guns are not worth what we pay for them but the aesthetics and the desire for something 'out of the ordinary' or 'elite' makes it worth it to some. I went through my competition years spending a bit more on custom work but decided in the long run an 'upgrade package' of an additional $1,500 or whatever didn't give me a significantly better gun than my commercial Colt 1911's in pretty much stock configuration.
YMMV
That sums things up pretty well.
Is there any actual need for a 1.5"/50-yard 1911 for 99% of us? Probably not. I can't even see well enough to use a gun like that, much less have the ability to hold and squeeze up to its capabilities.On the other hand, poor shooting is always a frustration to a real hobbyist. I was told many years ago by a good friend and expert skeet shooter that the last thing you want is to have any doubts about your equipment - gun or ammunition. You gain nothing saving a few cents per shell by economizing in your reloading if you don't know why you consistently shoot 24s. When there is just no doubt about these two things, then...
This is where a fancy gun comes into play, for me. I admit I can't shoot up to the gun's capability, but when I press the trigger on my Les Baer and the shot goes off into la-la land, there is NO DOUBT in my mind who can be blamed. It's not Les Baer and it's not Federal.
