I used the butt end of my flashlight. Figured worst case I could bust the glass out of the door if I really needed to.

I started in 1978, and our uniform trousers came with a sap pocket on the right side. I carried a "convoy" style sap; spring handle with a round end, all covered in leather. I was trained to make a fist around the spring hand and then punch. The heavy head would then snap forward and add an additional strike. One of the more effective strikes was punching the opponent in the center of the chest; the sap would hit them in the collarbone, an effective pressure point. We were specifically taught not to strike the head; less for effectiveness than PR. A cut on the head from a sap would bleed wickedly, and would make for a great picture eventhough the wound was minor.

I never considered myself particularly accurate swinging any kind of sap or jack. Seemed I'd either miss the target or hit my own fingers/knuckles on the bag/dummy/partner.

I was very good with a straight baton jab. But my favorite tool was a simple yarawa (Kubaton). Kept a long handcuff key on the end and simply jammed the stick into my pants/belt. It was always handy and within reach. While cuffing, I could stick it between your fingers or across your wrist or whatever. If you started to get weird, a simple squeeze or jab with that 6" stick would down the biggest tough guy if needed. If you ever should drop it in a fight, you're not handing the other guy a 26" club to fight back with.

And as others have pointed out, they're essentially invisible. I can walk you into jail with my kubo in your armpit and just like asking a horse to move left or right, I can direct you anywhere I want you to go. The minute you protest, I simply lift up and you're compliant no matter how macho or drunk you are.

Very little chance of serious injury, very little chance of having it used against you, very cheap, always have it with you, and virtually invisible. Ideal little tool, I've always thought.


Sgt Lumpy

Saps were great for close encounters where a baton was too unwieldy, or you already were in contact with the perp.
Like Iggy, I had a flat one that fit in the palm of my hand.
It was particularly effective when there was the chance for colateral damage by swinging a baton, such as in a crowded area.

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Hold my beer and watch this!

In the 70's I carried a 5 or 6 c-cell Maglight. I always held it by the head with the shaft sitting on my shoulder. It was easier to swing forward in that position. I also was trained to use the PR-24. I later made one on my wood lathe out of oak. It also made a nice shoulder stock for my Model 19 that I carried then.

Here is an article on batons. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PR-24#Side-handle_baton

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Corripe Cervisiam

Been out of the job for a long time. Still have a sap, blackjack and a pair of sap gloves. They're souvenirs of the job now. All are locked away in the safe.

Another fan of the sap gloves, we went to a lot of Bar fights calls when I worked as a municipal Officer and they were effective in that type of situation.

Got a call one time of a man with a chain saw inside a bar in a fight with others , sure did dread opening that door but I did listen to see if I could hear it revving up.

If you have never heard the slap of a night stick beating the back of a SBs thighs as you have him bent over the car, well you should get the recording.

I do not want to derail this very interesting series, but back to post #3 - Iggy, someday you owe us "the rest of the story".....
Dave

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mr mom
Fire Chief, Retired

I carried a sap before I got into law enforcement. I worked in a bus station that attracted drunks and scumbags like moths to a porch light. After I cracked a few word got around and things settled down.

Next stop was the Air Force, where my only moves were a choke hold if I could get it, or a Motorola to the side of the head if I couldn't. They didn't call those radios "bricks" for no reason.

In the Bureau I've used OC spray but mostly kept to choke holds and radio strikes. Once I threw a D cell Maglite at a guy like a tomahawk just as he made the corner of a project building. The light nailed the corner and detonated. It never worked again. My partner was inside and came running out because inside it sounded like I shot him.

Now I rely on my kindly Wilford Brimley like demeanor and a .45 pistol.

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“What you got, ain’t new.”

Not to hijack a thread, but a forum member, Disector, is a real artist when it comes to making saps or blackjacks. Here are some that he made.


In our state, we can carry one if we have a concealed carry permit. Of course, a sap or jack certainly won't take the place of a firearm, but it sure doesn't hurt to have one tucked away in the side pocket of the door of the truck. I guess I'd call it "extra insurance"...just in case.

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Pack light and cinch tight.

I started in 1968 and carried a blackjack until our agency outlawed them sometime in the early 1980's. From there we were issued something called an ASP, a small spring loaded metal baton. To my way of thinking the ASP was capable of doing far more damage than my blackjack. I still have the blackjack as a keepsake. I once used it on a dead cruiser battery and the car started, go figure.

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Old Cop
LEO (Ret.)

The reliability of walkie talkies as impact weapons in my time (when we were issued one) :

Motorola HT 220s - too light, and the battery cover came off,

GE "Brick" great, literally was the size of a building brick, outstanding,

GE with the twist off battery on the bottom -NG -battery always broke off,

Motorola MX series, with the slide on battery on the bottom - outstanding,

Newer Motorola programmable - too light, flimsy -NG.

I have used various impact weapons over the years with a decent amount of success. But, pepper foam (not spray) was without a doubt far more effective than anything I ever used. The spray always had overspray issues. There is nothing quite like overspraying your backup officer in a fight and putting them and/or you out of the fight.
The foam works like a charm though. I used it several times. One that stands out was a bipolar guy who was off his meds & had just beat up his pregnant sister. I and another officer were on his back on the ground trying to cuff him and he was doing doing pushups. A one second burst of the foam did the trick. You'd believe I'd hit him w/ a Louisville Slugger. He got his probation revoked over that one and did some prison time. Everytime I see him on the street now, he apologizes and tells me I'll never have to do that again.

...speak volumes about my time starting in '64. Spring saps, lead gloves, wooden nightsticks, .38 LRN cartridges and little training compared to the "new breed". I carried a 5 cell Ray-O-Vac flashlight with a 3.5 inch head on it until I was charged by a drunk one day. I didn't see him coming until the last moment and was able to sidestep and crack him across the forehead, primarily as a reflexive move on my part. He went down but so did the light...in many pieces! Believe it or not, I "invented" the aluminum police light that night, but had no idea how to go about designing, manufacturing and patenting that, so others went on to make their fortunes. As I look back, there was little guidance on what to use or carry in those days. That said, I never knew of a case where the officer over-reacted or seriously damaged a perp without truly just cause. We used our words for the most part and it seems to have worked. Those were the days when the police had the respect of the community. We also wore "dress" uniforms. While I always wished that we could "dress down" for the night work, our chief was out of the '30's and definitely old school. He would be appalled that officers today dress as they do. I applaud it because it fits the needs of the job, looks good and is COMFORTABLE!

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Term limits!

I know guys who still use them today. Some in uniform and others not so much. The sap is a wonderful tool if used wisely...especially a good flat sap.

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Run Fast, Bite Hard!

Not many fellows using a sap had formal training with em', going by the Lawdogs I knew from around the late 60's/early 70's.
ASP training targets (Hopefully) non-lethal strike zones.
Best use of an impact weapon I've personally observed were done by a Marine MP Corporal and a Japanese police officer.
The Marine took down a drunken mob, never striking above the waist. The JP took down two large servicemen so quickly it was almost surreal.
ETA: I'm not a LEO, but have used the nightstick and ASP to good effect at work.
MANY years ago I worked security at a hospital where a nurse had been abducted from the parking lot, then raped and murdered, prior to them hiring security. The fellows in the engineering dept. made me up a section of thick cable wrapped in tape. Worked very well (And a Second Chance vest)against a knife wielding nut one night.