It's a long story, so I'll skip most. I took my little Gold Lab for a walk to the nearby city park. Next thing I know I'm laying on my back in a mud puddle with a snarling big dog on top of me with his jaws locked on my dogs neck. Shes screaming, and I'm thinking He's gonna kill her, and I'm next.

It got through to me reall quick that a old fart (me) wasn't going to solve the problem pysicaly. So I decided I'd have to get out from under him, get the old Colt .32long out of my pocket and against the back of his head , so the rd would impact in the dirt and not go sailing off into the nieborhood.

Lucky for me the owner showed up right then , dragged him off, and got his jaws off my dogs neck. Got his fingers shredded pretty bad in the process (good!) He said "he don't normally act this way" Don't normally??? you mean he's done something similer before and you still let him run loose?

Thick fur prevented any damage to my dogs neck, and I just got muddy and a slightly tweaked back. But things could have ended badly for all concerend.

Anyway, I learned a few lessons,. 1. Daily excercise or not, I ain't what I used to be. 2. Stay more alert ALL the time. 3. A gun is not always the best defense. (Today I went out and bought a VERY heavy walking stick/cane)

Justifieably fearing for my life or not, I think a world class poop storm would have come down on me if I had shot the jerks dog. Hours or days of police and DA questoning, probably hundreds or maybe thousends of $ for a lawyer,etc.

This is a very progressive city, I can see the headlines now "Trigger happy Viet nam baby killer gun nut, shoots and kills beloved pet in public park".

Leash laws?

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Dum vivo cano

In my opinion, you showed great restraint by not shooting the dog after the fact and daring the owner to say anything.

What city? Around here we call that kind of dog a dead dog.

What kind of dog was it?

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“What you got, ain’t new.”

We've got leash laws, we've got laws requireing a permit to trim trees in your yard, we got laws regulating how much C.O.2 your barbie can emit, we got laws on how much smoke your smoker can produce, we got laws forbidding you to build a fire in your fireplace or run power tools on "clean air action days."

We've got laws regulating every bloody thing you can think of. (and some you couldn't) But the ones that make some sense (like the leash law) don't get enforced. Just the touchy feely stupid ones.

So,How do you really feel?Go on,Vent a little.

I'm truly glad everybody's OK.

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Dum vivo cano

I don't really know. Not the much maligned Pit bull or Rot. Black & white, big, shaggy sort of like a collie but wider head.

If you can't use a gun to protect yourself in those situations, look into a stun gun, one of the baton shaped ones that gives a little reach would do the trick.

Are those legal there in your area?

I posted this some time back but I think all should be aware of what can happen.

I’ve used a gun in self-defense only once. In 1999, I lived in a suburb of Dallas. Early one morning I was walking my beagle, Riley the rabbit dog, when a neighbor’s large German Sheppard escaped from his fenced yard and attacked us. I was knocked to the ground, bitten in the hand and leg, and Riley was severely bitten in the neck and back. I always carried a .38 Chiefs Special loaded with hollow points because of stray dogs in the neighborhood. I fired one round that stopped the attack. I didn’t kill the dog but the damage was substantial—end of story, or so I thought.

As a result of the attack, my dog sustained nerve damage that lasted the rest of his life. I was treated at the ER for bite wounds. I had a conceal carry license and there were no charges pressed against me. Non-the-less, the vindictive owner sued me in civil court for his dog’s outrageous vet bills. It cost thousands in legal fees to defend myself for something that was purely self-defense. My lawyer counter sued for everything under the sun and the whole mess was settled out of court before going to trial. A lot of time wasted and money spent. In the event that I have to use my weapon again in self-defense, I will make sure the attacker is dead.

A short time later I moved back to the farm where I grew up, but for different reasons.

Look into a good folding knife with a clip. I carry a Benchmade, Cold Steele, or Kershaw just in case. Just in case I lose, cant get to, or shouldnt use my carry firearm.

In your case, a good defensive knife might have been a good option, although I agree that a heavy walking stick would be a good idea from now omn.

Glad you are all OK and nothing got totally out of hand.

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Nothing to see here,move along

Big walking stick is no good if you are on the ground or in a mud puddle.
Carry a self defense weapon that can be drawn and used with one hand (either hand)

Never go walking without a taser AND a real gun, .44sp or bigger!

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Doc Garrett
Dead Man's Doctor

I carry pepper spray on my weak side for non life threatening situations. Found some made by Fox industries thats 5.3 million scovile heat units. Figure it would ruin any attackers day, 2 or 4 legs.

I serve process as a LEO. I've gassed many dogs before they could get to me and most of the time that stops them. The two that didn't stop got what was behind door number two. I've been bitten several times by the surprise attacks but I'm current on my shots. The city dogs are covered by leash laws but the county dogs aren't. Humans around here have more rights than dogs and usually don't have problems justifying protecting themselves or their property against unrestrained viscious dogs...especially if they have a carry permit.

That's the very reason I carry a collapsable baton in my back pocket when I walk the dog.

Long enough to hold a dog at bay and when swung, generates a heck of lot more force.

If you find yourself on your back again, the walking stick won't be as easy to use as a baton.

Glad you and the dog are ok.

A tazer would have been great fun...........Glad you are OK............

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Go big or stay home

therevj: The scenario you described is why I don't walk my little dogs anymore. There's just too many dogs of "unknown" parentage walking around the neighborhood.

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SOS USA

We just had a similar situation this summer in Severan Park, MD where in an off leash dog park a dog attacked a dog on lease. Owner's brother who was in charge of the off leash dog (Bear-Bear) said it was just playing hard. The leashed dog owner was an off duty federal agent and he was carrying a handgun and shot Bear-Bear in the hip. Unfortunately he hit an artery and Bear-Bear died. It was a big deal in the news for months and the agent wound up moving from the area and stood trial. He was convicted of discharging his weapon in the dog park.

I'd say you did the right thing. I wouldn't have shot the dog unless it had it's teeth around MY neck. Perhaps walk softly and carry a big stick next time.

Dogs and the insane devotion that the public has for them scare me. I worry quite a bit about them, where I work and where I live, on the jogging trails.

I think Jay needs more than a .32.

My brother once shot a big mongrel that lived in the neighborhood and ran free, terrifying women who were gardening or hanging out clothes. It went for him in his yard, and he hit it once with a lead HP from his M-60 snub. The bullet probably didn't expand, but did drop the dog. The bullet went down between the shoulder and the body, from above.

My son had to stab a big coydog that went for him in his back yard at night. He got a Benchmade one-handed folding knife with a tanto point open, while holding off the dog, and stuck it pretty well in the chest. It yelped and ran off. It was probably stalking an old horse that his wife kept in an enclosure in that semi-rural yard. He carries a gun at night when he goes out now.

I've scared off a couple of dogs with a knife, years ago. I think they sensed danger, dropped their aggressive actions, and left. But they worry me, and the leash law is poorly enforced here.

Waking stick, pepper spray, baton, taser.... all good suggestions to use on the owner of that dog.

It really stinks that you have to be worried about being sued for protecting yourself against a dog. We don't have many stray dogs in my area but some pepper spray may be a good idea when I walk my dog.

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AL
Pax Per Potens

Shoot the dog. I used to be of the "it's not the animal's fault so don't punish it" school but as I get older and crankier I am less tolerant of abiding attacks from either dogs or humans. You have a right to enjoy the park and, assuming you're minding your own business, a right to enjoy it unmolested by other dogs.


In passing, I'm on the other side of this myself as I have a big dog who can and will kill anything that attacks her. I can't count the number of times a vicious little yipyip, most times not on a leash, has attacked my dog. I'm so sick of hearing "it just wants to play", "it's tiny little nips don't hurt anything", "my dog's fearless and can take car of itself" or something like that I'm done taking it. I warn people once and then they're on their own.

Bob

So how long have you lived in Missoula?

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Front sight and squeeze

I'm glad you and your dog are ok, bud. I was in a similar situation a few years ago when a pit attacked my Dogo Argentino (not a very smart idea if you are familiar with Dogo's) ... I was armed with a p27 (I've a CCP) and discharged 3 rounds, 2 fatally wounding the pit.

I love animals, and hurting a dog is the last thing I'd ever want to do ... but I truly felt a serious threat to not only my dog, but myself ... this was obviously a badly trained and unsupervised animal that should not of been out in public.

Where I live in Colorado, I was more concerned about the pits owner coming out armed. People get shot over things like this. Thankfully I'm known by the Sheriffs Department here (in a good way of course ) and they were on scene before my weapon had even cooled. The situation at hand was pretty obvious, and there had been reports of this animal attacking kids and pets in the neighborhood.

With the Sheriff in tow, we had gone to the owners house so I could tell him face to face what had happened and wanted to apologize for killing his dog, as thats the last thing I'd ever want to do... but had to let him know that was the only option as I felt imminent danger. The man started to get heated and threatening, I informed him that the next time there will be no apology and that people like him shouldn't own animals. At this point the Sheriff took over and let the man know in no uncertain terms that I was well within my rights and he could be charged for not controlling his animal.

I hope to never have to do something like that again. But, should I have to, I won't be so slow on the draw.

When I retired I worked in St. Louis for the State of Missouri-beautiful building-down town-just about 50 meters from our building a pack of dogs killed a child (12 years old I believe) tore him to pieces. This was back when the two socialist cities (Kansas City and St. Louis) voted no of the CCW prop.
Central MO. my son was home on leave-went jogging-called on his cell-told me to "get out here with a gun_there's a pack of dogs" I called the Sheriff and by the time we arrived the dogs were lurking about 200 meters away-The County Dog Catcher and Sheriff advised that we shoot the dogs-it was outside of their jurisdiction.

I am owned by a cat, and I also own a dog. At 6 months old he is knee-high, 40 lbs., and so black you can't even see him at night. Black as a black hole, a flashlight at night just lights up his eyes, black. He is a cute puppy. Some mix of Setter, Black Lab, Chow, and something else. Did I mention he is blacker than elemental Carbon black?

But, I would shoot a dog, ANY dog, in a minute if it attacks me or my family. I value human life much, much more than other animals.

Sadly, a friend wound up in court for shooting a stray dog, on property he owned. The dog was not on the required leash, and was a long way from the owner's home. However, that didn't deter owner from threatening him, and eventually taking him to court. I still can't believe it. And the court failed to even mention to the owner that he was required to have the dog on a leash, just admonished my friend for killing it. Yeesh.

When walking, I carry a weapon (I hold an HCP), a knife, and a walking stick. But the stick is really just flimsy aluminum. It does have a fairly pointy carbide tip that would help hold off a dog until I could bring a weapon to bear. Think I might investigate a heavier unit though.

Glad everything seems to have come out ok for you.

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I hope I copied that right

Here's my two cents on this:

Yes a club,stick,spray etc is good,but if the dog has you DOWN you're screwed,it's time to shoot.
if it's chewing on your dog just spray,beat or otherwise make it want to go away..do not shoot it.

If it grabs you and it gets to where you have to use a gun do so and then go to the hospital I don't care if you aren't hurt GO let them tell you you aren't hurt.

Then make your way most ricky tick to a lawyer and sue the ever lovin' bejeesus out of the dogs owner,if you have your ducks in a row and take a swing at him first things will mostly go better for you.

About the same as when you have to defend against a two legged problem,it sucks but that's how the world is now.

So it's OK if their unleashed dog kills my dog who's always on his leash when we're out - BUT it's not OK for me to shoot their dog before it kills mine?

I DON'T THINK SO!
The FIRST sign of aggression the opposing dog is DRT. And if you think that hitting a cranked up dog with a stick is going to run him off --- Well, you haven't tried it yet with the wrong doggy. I guess that most will run, but some just go ballistic. Why take the chance?

I was chewed up pretty good by a big dog 45 - 50 years ago. I'm still having trouble with a few of the bite sites --- NEVER GONNA HAPPEN AGAIN. I carry either a Commander in 45ACP or an M49 in 38 Special - Always!
I think that most folks get carry permits because they think they may have to deal with a bad guy. I got mine because I may have to deal with a bad dog at sometime.

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In dog years I'm dead.

Any owners who let their mutts run loose off of a leash had better hope that I'm not on the jury if their case reaches court.

You can control a gun. A dog is a live animal, that may not do what the owner wants. It is a potential threat to the public.

As far as I'm concerned, allowing many dogs out in public is reckless endangerment.

T-Star

Glad you and your dog are O.K. For the future, you need to know your area and plan accordingly. Baton is good if you can't do a handgun or if you have reason to think that use of a handgun would only lead to your facing abusive legal action.

I have had a few instances in which large dogs attacked me while I was out running. Bare handed you cannot deal with a determined large dog. Get a brick, stick, etc. and swing hard. When I go running I carry a couple of light 3 lb. hand weights. When swung hard you can really cross the eyes of even a large dog. When I take my dog walking, I put a Glock G-22 in my pocket. I wear heavy hiking boots when out walking. Last year a very large bulldog jumped my dog while we were walking. I gave him the toe of my Ft. Lewis boot, as hard as I could swing. He didn't come back for more. The owner got real hot. I simply told him I couldn't let his dog cut my dog up. I later reported it to the police. Always make a police report. Amazing how it takes the steam out of people when the police come to see them about their dog being out of control and dangerous. Oh... the G-22... I use it for "snakes."

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<><

Hello out there,

it is about 5 to 6 years when I had stalked in our hunting area and made my way back to my car after about two hours of walking through the woods.
In Germany the owners of the farmland lease the right of hunting to one or more hunters and some hunters have so called gamkeepers - I was one of them for a hunting area of about 500 hectares. On my side there was a huge German Short Haired Pointer, very well trained and - what I would call - my second best friend (my best is my wife).

As the German Gun Law demands, I unloaded my rifle and drove back to the hunting lodge, locked up therifle in thegun vault and decided to make a walk with the dog because sundown is just a nice time to walk - it was mid July.

About three hundred meters away from the lodge the dog snarled - normally this dog did not snarl.
I did the worst thing one could do - I walked along and did not care about snarling dog and its raised hackles.
So i stumbled into three poachers, two of te with rifles, behind a corner of the woods at the beginning of a small clearing.
One had a huge flashligt to blind the animals with it was roebuck and red deer season),the other two had to shoot.
And that is what tey did - they shot five or six times at me and my dog ( I really can't remember the correct number of shots )and I hunkered down by jumping into a water ditch.
Of course we both remained there till it all was silent and after I could hear those villains had slipped off.

Thank God they did not make sure whether their shots hit me or not.
No, I had no mobile with me (it was in the lodge) and no handgun (never thought I would be in need of it).

The police officer, whom I reported the incident to told me I'd rather be happy to be still alive.

As a hunter you are allowed to carry a handgun in Germany - and this is what I do since then - in every case I am allowed to carry, my .357 (686 3" CS) is on my side.
And when my dog snarls I grab my mobile withe the left and my sixgun with the right hand - who knows .....

Take care - everybody!
Always good shooting and best regards from Germany
Waidmannsheil

Wisent

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Honor as t h e way of life

I took my mini schnauzer out for a walk one day and was blindsided by a big male labrador. He grabbed my little dog by the back and started shaking him. I grabbed the lab and he dropped my dog and snapped at me. I lost my temper and grabbed a landscape tember out of the flower bed and swung it overhand as hard as I could. Just before it hit him I came to my senses and tried to miss him but couldn't. I hit him square across the back. The dog yelped and crumpled to the ground. Then he ran back to his yard dragging his back feet. Then I lost my temper again, not at the dog but at his owner for not controlling his dog. I went to the neighbors front door and gave him a piece of my mind. I scared the guy to death. Thankfully his dog recovered with no side effects. The guy has kept a closer eye on his dog since then. There are dozens of children and older folks in that neighborhood. I can't help but think how it could have been a bad situation if it had been another yard that dog went into.

Makes you wonder what if anything goes through the minds of some of these dog "lovers", or the authorities that look the other way.

In addition to other commonsense precautions, I wonder if S&W's Sigma is the ticket for close encounters of the fanged kind. Light, easy to shoot, 16 rounds of JHP.

About fifteen years ago my (elderly) father asked me if I thought the country was becoming decadent. I didn't really know what to say at the time. Now I do.

Glad you came out of it as well as you did.