WWII Battleships

[CAJUNLAWYER]

Check this out-wicked good-eh!

Battleships of World War Two - Profiles and Pictures

[Snapping Twig]

Site saved to favorites.

Thanks!

[OFT II]

Neat site, Caj. Have you ever crossed the Sabine to that third world state that we call Texas so see our navy? We have a battleship east of Houston, a destroyer and sub in Galveston and an aircraft carrier in Corpus Christi.

[DeadAye]

Originally Posted by Snapping Twig

Site saved to favorites.

Thanks!

Me too
I don't know how many times we've stopped on our way to Florida and spent the day on the USS Alabama. These beasts are just flat awe inspiring.
We haven't been back in years - About time to see the old girl again

[CAJUNLAWYER]

Originally Posted by OFT II

Neat site, Caj. Have you ever crossed the Sabine to that third world state that we call Texas so see our navy? We have a battleship east of Houston, a destroyer and sub in Galveston and an aircraft carrier in Corpus Christi.

Saw the Aircraft Carrier in Corpus

Originally Posted by DeadAye

Me too
I don't know how many times we've stopped on our way to Florida and spent the day on the USS Alabama. These beasts are just flat awe inspiring.
We haven't been back in years - About time to see the old girl again

Did the Alabama and the submarine in Mobile. To tell you the truth I was more impressed by the sub. I couldn't possibly imagine living at sea for a couple of months on that thing with 80 other men Those guys were heros!!

Did Cape Canaveral back in 1983 before they touristified it all up. Was able ot get off the bus and actually walk around the launch pad for the first Mercury rocket and bend over to touch the scorched concrete. I was amazed at how small the pad was-only about 20x20. Got to go in what was left of the launch bunker-it was an eye opener-imagine going up in basically a big firecracker!!! Went back in the late 90's and they had it all sanitized and disney'ied up with exhibits and you couldn't get off the bus and for some reason you couldn't go over to the actual launch cape. In my opinion it lost a lot. I can still remember walking through the dunes to the launch sites and then outside walking among the various rocket parts-i got to walk across the gantry and peer into a burnt Mercury capsule and picture what it must have been like sitting in that thing waiting for someone to light the fuse. It's all inside now with ropes around it to keep you away and talking boxes and attendants-what a shame. Just let us look, touch and remember............

[David LaPell]

Another excellent source, albeit just American ships, is Navsource.org.

[ogilvyspecial]

I've been on the BB's, USS Alabama, North Carolina & Wisconsin and it never ceased to amazed me the sheer firepower those Ships had.
Those 16" Guns commanded respect.......

My Father was a Gunner's Mate, First Class, during WWII on a Destroyer, the USS Sampson, where he saw quite a bit of action in both the Atlantic & the Pacific.

He told me many times that the role of the DD's (Destroyers) & DE's (Destroyer Escorts) were to protect the "Big Boys," even if that meant they had to sacrifice their own Ship in the process. He told me many stories and said that when up against the German U Boats the Germans usually stayed and fought, while the Japanese would "throw a couple of fish" then get the heck out of Dodge, which was probably a good thing for our side. The Japanese "Long Lance" Torpedoes were pretty good.........

While I've always had the utmost respect for all of our Troops, the Sailors, to me, were a special breed.

Remember the Indianapolis..........

[k22fan]

That will be a good sight to look through when I get time. However, as a Washingtonian the absence on the North Carolina class and more specifically the USS Washington BB56 is disapointing. The Washington after all was the only US battleship to ever destroy an enemy battleship with its own guns. Despite being one of the first two of the ten battleships built for WWII to arrive in the Pacific combat area after Pearl Harbor, the Washington made it through the war undamaged by the Japaneese. I hope they add her record.

Gil

[seagill]

When they recomissioned the uss missouri for viet nam a bunch of retired gunners mates had to be brought in. Nobody on active duty knew how to load the 16".50 guns.

[max]

Last year in San Diego I toured the carrier Midway. It sure seemed big to me, but the Reagan was across the bay and it is BIG!!!!!!

[gregintenn]

Charleston SC is a great place to go and see an aircraft carrier, submarine, fort, and even a replica of a confederate submarine. I also enjoyed the battleship and submarine in Birmingham Alabama.

[HAWKEYE10]

I love this stuff. Thanks for posting. Don

[tdan]

For you naval warfare buffs, you might want to pick up a copy of "Sea of Thunder" by Evan Thomas. This is a superb account of the Pacific naval theatre of WWII. The battle of Leyte Gulf is covered in depth. This was the last surface fleet battle that was ever fought.

Hopefully, this will be the last. I'm praying that the US Fifth fleet does not get trapped in the Persian Gulf, as the Iranians possess some truly nasty Russian anti-ship missiles. That part of the world seems to be going to hell in a hand basket as fast as I can type!

[TACC1]

Thanks for posting; fascinated by WW II stuff.
If you're into sub's, you might try a book titled, "CLEAR THE BRIDGE!"
by Medal of Horor recipient Richard O'Kane, and his sub, the TANG.
I've read that book maybe a dozn times. TANG commisioned,
went to sea, and fought the Japanese; all in just 5 missions.
TACC1

[CW Spook]

The shipyard at Manitowoc, WI built submarines during WWII. One was the USS Cobia, which is now back home in Manitowoc as a museum ship. Of all the museum ships I've ever toured, the Cobia grabbed me the most. It feels, eerily so, like it's just waiting for her crew to come back on board, kick the tires, light the fires and head back out to sea.

[sipowicz]

Very cool...I did some research a a while back and found a site for the USS Atlanta on which my Uncle Carmelo served...sadly, died on the way back from battle...washed overboard during a storm when he didn't get his lifeline hooked up in time.

USS Atlanta USS Juneau - USSATLANTA.COM

[Badkarma 1]

This is good stuff indeed! I remember seeing the Missouri in the yards in 86 being refitted and out fitted with her new Harpoon and Tomahawk launchers. She was a sight that made any sea going sailor weak in the knees, long, lean, looking every bit a fighting ship!
Also I spoke at length with the GMs that served aboard these warships and each one had special memories of there "fighting ladies"! It was said that the last thing a troublesome country wanted to see was one of these on the horizon and that rumor has it that they were thinking of putting a nuclear reactor in one of the Iowa class. Dale

[CAJUNLAWYER]

Originally Posted by gregintenn

Charleston SC is a great place to go and see an aircraft carrier, submarine, fort, and even a replica of a confederate submarine. I also enjoyed the battleship and submarine in Birmingham Alabama.

They had to cut it into truck size pieces, drive it up there, dig a hole big enough to float it and then re-assemble it.

Seriously though, navigate around that site a bit and they've got cruisers, destroyers air craft carriers and misc vessels.

[CAJUNLAWYER]

Originally Posted by k22fan

That will be a good sight to look through when I get time. However, as a Washingtonian the absence on the South Carolina class and more specifically the USS Washington BB56 is disapointing. The Washington after all was the only US battleship to ever destroy an enemy battleship with its own guns. Despite being one of the first two of the ten battleships built for WWII to arrive in the Pacific combat area after Pearl Harbor, the Washington made it through the war undamaged by the Japaneese. I hope they add her record.

Gil

Here ya go!
This bugger went 26knots you could water ski behind that !!
Battleship Photo Index BB-56 USS WASHINGTON

[The Last Standing Knight]

I was getting ready for my first Westpac and saw Big Mo in dry dock, but New Jersey upclose and personal. I've seen just about every kind of ship, been on a few of them. But the one that I'm in awe of is the New York class USS Texas BB-35, the last of the dreadnoughts, which is down here at San Jacinto.
She as as menacing looking now as the day she was built almost a century ago. Everytime I see her, I get the shivers. If I was even a modern day ship's Captain, I would hate to see her waiting for me.

[sheepdawg]

I bet this is awesome to watch.



Is that enough caliber for concealed carry?

[snowman]

Originally Posted by sheepdawg

I bet this is awesome to watch.



Is that enough caliber for concealed carry?

As long as the shot placement is there, they're adequate. Too much barrel, though -the perp might reach out and grab it out of your turret.

Andy

[Frizzman]

If you come to Norfolk, Va you can see the USS Wisconsin tied up right at the road going around the Elizabeth River waterfront(Waterside Drive). You can tour it if you wish. Its rather striking to come around the bend on a city street and see this massive ship with its bow right there. I served most of my one enlistment aboard a Destroyer Escort...DE-1092. I remember the saying that the navy had three types of ships of the line...Carriers, subs and targets. When running escort with the carrier task force, we were all quite aware that we were expendable in the effort to defend the carrier. There isn't any place to hide when a ship is under fire. I grew up in a Navy family in a Navy town and love ships. The sight of a battleship is always thrilling!...

[armadillo]

I happened to notice that the Battleship Texas (BB-35) was not on the list. It should have been listed as a New York Class. It served in both World Wars and both the Atlantic and Pacific in WWII. I think it is the oldest battleship still around - it will be 100 next year.

[NFrameFred]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the North Carolina yet, moored as a museum in Wilmington. Been through several times and I'm always awe-struck by realizing what these men accomplished with the technology available to them compared to today's military. Same thing when I got to sit in the cockpit of a P-51 and a Corsair. The thought of leaving the deck of a carrier in a prop plane of that era - going out to seek an enemy of unknown strength and location, and then praying you can find your way back . . . God bless our service men.

As far as the the old North Carolina, when she fired her first salvos the command ship sent a message asking if she needed assistance, because she put out so much smoke and fire they thought she had been hit. Naval bombardment with 16" guns had to be an awesome spectacle to witness. The Japanese had a ship called Mushashi that carried 18" guns, but as I recall she went down before ever actually getting to put them to serious use during the battles surrounding Leyte Gulf. The ammo storage, transport and loading process of such guns is a captivating subject in and of itself. If I remember correctly,the North Carolina's tubes threw a 16" 2500 lb projectile over 20 miles.

[snowman]

Pardon my ignorance; are those barrels rifled?

Andy

[NFrameFred]

Originally Posted by snowman

Pardon my ignorance; are those barrels rifled? Andy

The resident navy vets should know, but I believe the big guns are rifled.

[k22fan]

Originally Posted by NFrameFred

The resident navy vets should know, but I believe the big guns are rifled.

I'm not a vet but the navy called those 16-50 rifles. In other words, 16" dia. 2700 pound armor penetrating bullet propelled by eight 100 pound silk bags of powder fired through a barrel 50 calibers long. The barrels had replaceable rifled liners. Gun crews trained to fire 3 salvos per minute. While firing at the Japaneese battleship Kirishima the Washington actually fired 4 salvos per minute. There's nothing like the thought that the other side's shells might soon be landing on you to make you hustle.

[tdan]

<The Japanese had a ship called Mushashi that carried 18" guns, but as I recall she went down before ever actually getting to put them to serious use during the battles surrounding Leyte Gulf. The ammo storage, transport and loading process of such guns is a captivating subject in and of itself. If I remember correctly,the North Carolina's tubes threw a 16" 2500 lb projectile over 20 miles.>

The Mushashi and her sister ship Yamato had the largest main guns of any battleship built. The Mushashi was torpedoed from aircraft in her bow forward of the armored belt. After that she was at the mercy of our carrier-based dive-bombers. She never got off a shot against any US surface craft. The only time her 18" guns were fired were as anti-aircract defense. Her crew was told that she was unsinkable. Unfortunately for the Japs, their fleet had to sail past the stricken Musashi, as they withdrew from their slaughtering in the Sibuyan Sea.

[Lee in Quartzsite]

This video shows how they go BANG!

Feeding the Guns ? Military Videos - Military.com

[snowman]

My curiosity is overtaking me here. Some more questions:

-How many times did they have to fire before the trajectory was adjusted so as to score a good hit?

-Is that good old-fashioned black powder in those packages?

-What percentage of the powder burned after the projectile left the muzzle?

-How was the charge ignited -electrical impulse?

-How was the recoil absorbed?


Am really enjoying the videos & such. I've never seen one in person.

Andy

[5BeansintheWheel]

The rifled barrels on the guns were sleeved and good for about 200 rounds if I remember correctly. Replacing the sleeves was something that had to be done at a yard.

During WW2, half charges of 3 bags ( a little of 100 pounds each) instead of 6 were used for island pounding. This was done to try to extend barrel life.

There were two shells the fast battleships fired, a 1900 pound HE and the 2700 pound AP.

These ships have been a passion of mine for over 30 years and I have gathered a large library on them. Sadly, all those books are in a storage unit and I am going by memory.

Someone had mentioned the Mighty Mo going to the Nam, which did not happen, it was the Big J (New Jersey). Have read that the North demanded her removal from the theater before they would sit at the peace table.

I will add that I think there is still a place in todays Navy for a couple of these wagons. It has been written that a carrier still can't match the tonnage a fast battleship can lay down on something under its guns over a few hours.

[bettis1]

I was also disappointed that the Battleship Texas (BB35) wasn't included. Served in both World Wars. Here is a link to the old girl.

Bob

USS Texas BB35

[Muley Gil]

Quote:
Originally Posted by gregintenn
Charleston SC is a great place to go and see an aircraft carrier, submarine, fort, and even a replica of a confederate submarine. I also enjoyed the battleship and submarine in Birmingham Alabama.


They had to cut it into truck size pieces, drive it up there, dig a hole big enough to float it and then re-assemble it.

Yeah, I believe Greg meant to say Mobile.

My police department was 15 miles from Birmingham. I occassionly worked the desk and the local radio stations would call about 0500 for any breaking stories. Once, I asked a reporter if she had heard about the aircraft carrier that was stuck in Valley Creek. She got all excited and wanted all of the details! I told her that she would really need to contact the sheriff's department and the local Coast Guard station. I had her going for a couple of minutes. I finally broke down and tel her that I was pulling her leg. She laughed, but was always a bit cautious about getting stories from me from then on.

[k22fan]

Originally Posted by snowman

My curiosity is overtaking me here. Some more questions:

[1] -How many times did they have to fire before the trajectory was adjusted so as to score a good hit?

[2] -Is that good old-fashioned black powder in those packages?

[3] -What percentage of the powder burned after the projectile left the muzzle?

[4] -How was the charge ignited -electrical impulse?

[5] -How was the recoil absorbed?


Am really enjoying the videos & such. I've never seen one in person.

Andy

Andy,
I can only partially answer your questions and even at that someone with a book in hand is welcome to correct my memory. Taking your questions in order:

1. In his after action report the captian of the Washington wrote that he was certain of hits on the Japaneese battleship Kirishmia by the third salvo and may have hit on the first salvo. The Washington had radar to establish range and direction which the Kirishmia did not have and it was a dark night. However the Washington only fired form about 5 miles.

2. They used smokless powder. If it was black powder you couldn't see the ship through the smoke.

3. Good Question.

4. A primer like charge was placed in the breach plug before it was closed. I don't know how the primer was set off.

5. In the video of the Wisconsin that you watched you can see the barrels recoil.

Hopefully someone will be along with more knowledge.

Gil

[k22fan]

Originally Posted by 5BeansintheWheel

[...] During WW2, half charges of 3 bags ( a little of 100 pounds each) instead of 6 were used for island pounding. This was done to try to extend barrel life. [...]

I will add that I think there is still a place in todays Navy for a couple of these wagons. It has been written that a carrier still can't match the tonnage a fast battleship can lay down on something under its guns over a few hours.

5Beans,

I hope you read this as adding detail and not just nit-picking. The Iowa class ships used 800 pounds of powder in their 16-50s for their standard AP charge while the lighter South Carolina and South Dakota classes used 600 pounds in their 16-45s.

I doubt that the expense of keeping battleships operating and surrounding them with other ships to protect them could be justified by the few times they might fire cannons at the beach. However, during Pappa Bush's 1991 Gulf War they carried 700 cruise missiles and were pretty much immune to the French built anti ship missiles the Iraqis killed some of our sailors on unarmored cruise missile launching ships with. Of course Iran has Russian built attack subs in the Gulf and battleships would be vulnerable to their torpedos and old fashioned mines.

Gil

[Skeptic 9c]

For a few details: 16"/50 caliber Mark 7 gun - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Geoff
Who notes the BBs replaced the CVs when their lifetimes expired.

[5BeansintheWheel]

Originally Posted by k22fan

5Beans,

I hope you read this as adding detail and not just nit-picking. The Iowa class ships used 800 pounds of powder in their 16-50s for their standard AP charge while the lighter South Carolina and South Dakota classes used 600 pounds in their 16-45s.

I doubt that the expense of keeping battleships operating and surrounding them with other ships to protect them could be justified by the few times they might fire cannons at the beach. However, during Pappa Bush's 1991 Gulf War they carried 700 cruise missiles and were pretty much immune to the French built anti ship missiles the Iraqis killed some of our sailors on unarmored cruise missile launching ships with. Of course Iran has Russian built attack subs in the Gulf and battleships would be vulnerable to their torpedos and old fashioned mines.

Gil

If you watch the video that Lee posted you can see 6 bags going into the breech, not 8 bags.

Of course you are correct about the cost of operating an Iowa class. I do remember the media and some members of congress howling that it was 1 million a day to drive one around back in the 1980's. So the chances of waking one up is pretty slim.

[jlrhiner]

I was also under the impression that we had run out of barrel liners. And, due to our economic downsizing, we no longer possesed the ability to produce them. I overheard this in around 1977 or so, I believe the Missouri was being refitted at that time. A couple of Officers I worked with were grousing that she couldn't stay operational for very long if the main guns were used often.

Of course, that's fuzzy memory and assuming they knew what they were talking about. But they are truly something to behold.

[lonejacklarry]

Thanks for the website, sir. The site is a little outdated regarding the info on my favorite ship: BB-63, The USS Missouri.

The Mighty MO is no longer in Bremerton, WA. It was towed out of Bremerton in May, 1995, to Oregon where it sat at the mouth of a river (Columbia maybe?) to kill the barnacles and other assorted salt water stuff. It was then towed to Pearl Harbor at Ford Island, HI, where it now resides. It is close to the Arizona Memorial so you can "see" two battle wagons at once.

I did see the USS New Jersey working out off the coast of Vietnam in 1968. I was a helicopter crewman and we were about a mile away but we could feel the concussion of the discharge. I don't know about the targets but I was very glad it was directed at someone else.

Thanks, again, for bringing the subject up!

[CAJUNLAWYER]

Originally Posted by bettis1

I was also disappointed that the Battleship Texas (BB35) wasn't included. Served in both World Wars. Here is a link to the old girl.

Bob

USS Texas BB35

Thanks Bettis-I had no idea that there was a Dreadnought over in Houston!! I checked out the web site and am going to sign up for a hard hat tour-that ought to be fascinating!.

[max]

Caj, if you go see the Texas, there is a restaurant right across the street that looks out over the ship channel and has some very good food and beverage. I mentioned the beverage part in case you should be so inclined.

[gregintenn]

Originally Posted by CAJUNLAWYER

They had to cut it into truck size pieces, drive it up there, dig a hole big enough to float it and then re-assemble it.

Seriously though, navigate around that site a bit and they've got cruisers, destroyers air craft carriers and misc vessels.

Would you believe Mobile?Don't know what I was thinking.

[k22fan]

Originally Posted by 5BeansintheWheel

If you watch the video that Lee posted you can see 6 bags going into the breech, not 8 bags.
[...]

The video shows 3 bags shoved in by hand followed by 3 bags being rolled onto the shute but a 7th bag is rammed in along with those three. The 7th bag is not visible until the ram shoves in into view. Also as you posted, reduced charges were used part of the time.

[5BeansintheWheel]

Originally Posted by k22fan

The video shows 3 bags shoved in by hand followed by 3 bags being rolled onto the shute but a 7th bag is rammed in along with those three. The 7th bag is not visible until the ram shoves in into view. Also as you posted, reduced charges were used part of the time.

Go back and watch carefully. Three bags come out, only 2 go in the breech (1 is held back), 3 more bags come out. Those three plus the left over bag from the first group go in.

[The Last Standing Knight]

Originally Posted by CAJUNLAWYER

Thanks Bettis-I had no idea that there was a Dreadnought over in Houston!! I checked out the web site and am going to sign up for a hard hat tour-that ought to be fascinating!.

Caj,
NO picture I have ever seen nor taken can ever do that great lady the justice that seeing her up close and in person can.
I have seen her and been on her many, many times...each time it is awe inspiring.
She was a United States Ship, but in my book, she is source of Texas pride.

[Lee in Quartzsite]

Did some searching and found the same video with a better explanation.

YouTube - Loading a 16-Inch Gun

On a Patrol off the tip of South Vietnam in 1965, we reported a medium sized vessel unloading supplies to VC Junks. The USS Canberra was about 5 miles when we called them in. They opened up with either their 5 or 8 inch guns. The first round hit about 100 yards short, the second round about 50 yards short, and the next two were direct hits. The ship lifted completely out of the water, split mid-ships, and sank. Pretty spectacular sight.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Canberra_%28CA-70%29

[k22fan]

Originally Posted by 5BeansintheWheel

Go back and watch carefully. Three bags come out, only 2 go in the breech (1 is held back), 3 more bags come out. Those three plus the left over bag from the first group go in.

You're right, but my powder measure will still be too small.

Gil

[max]

When I was in RVN, I heard about a convoy that was taking fire from a large hillside. The observer in the small plane flew over and then hightailed it out. In a minute or 2 the hillside pretty much disapeared. A voice came over the radio and said it was courtesy of the New Jersey.

[5BeansintheWheel]

Originally Posted by k22fan

You're right, but my powder measure will still be too small.

Gil

We do not want any of our forum members over loading their 16" guns.