FFL Transfers and tampering

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Arthury

Arthury

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Hi all,

I have a couple of questions about buying guns online and doing a FFL transfer to my local dealer:
Are the guns delivered in a sealed condition or are the packaging loose? Are the boxes opened? Are the local dealers required to open the box and inspect the contents before handing it over to me?
If the above answer is "YES", then how do you guarantee that the local dealer will not tamper with your new gun? I mean tampering the gun as in stealing the new parts and replacing them with older ones?

I would appreciate to hear your thots on this. Thanks!
 
I don't know what's required, but my FFL does open the packaging and at least see what kind of firearm it is. The first time I bought a handgun this way, I checked the serial number on the pistol I received against that given me by the seller.

You certainly want an FFL you can trust.
 
The guns are shipped/packaged however your seller wants to ship it. If it is not right take that up with him. The receiving FFl will open and inspect the gun to see if all paperwork is proper and record it in his boundbook. I think he has neither the time nor the inclination to mess with the gun and "swap out" any parts. That's penny ante stuff. He is also aware that you and the seller knows what the gun should be. Your local FFL sees you as possible future customer, why would he want to jeopoardize that. You have nothing to worry about. JMNSHO.
 
I know I have used FFL's that will wait to open the box when I arrive (on the same day it arrives), others I have used open the box and get the paperwork ready so all you have to do is fill out the 4473 and their book requirements are all taken care of. Either way find an FFL you can trust, or else you will always be second guessing your transactions with the ones you can't trust.
All of the smaller FFL's I have dealt with have been completely honest, as they mainly use their FFL to sell guns online and to the locals they trust. The larger shops work well too, but they tend to charge more for the transfer so that they entice you to buy one of their guns. I don't have a problem with this either, as I can understand their job is to make money while providing a service to the community and they have more overhead costs than the small gun shops.
 
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Find someone you can trust. I doubt that an ffl would replace parts. Just not good for business. How would he expect to get away with it? Most of the time when I recieve a gun for someone I open it look at it and call the client and 9 out of 10 time they can't come get it for a few days. Besides I have 24 hrs to record it into my inventory after recieving it. If you don't trust your ffl find another they are a dime a dozen or stop being so paranoid. You could also ask him not to open it til you get there if you can get there asap like the same day. I wouldn't have a problem with that I'd just think you were a little strange but I have a few strange cllients that are watching for the silent black helicopters. We need them to warn us when the NWO is here. Doeboy
 
Arthury said:
Hi all,

I have a couple of questions about buying guns online and doing a FFL transfer to my local dealer:
Are the guns delivered in a sealed condition or are the packaging loose? Are the boxes opened? Are the local dealers required to open the box and inspect the contents before handing it over to me?
If the above answer is "YES", then how do you guarantee that the local dealer will not tamper with your new gun? I mean tampering the gun as in stealing the new parts and replacing them with older ones?

I would appreciate to hear your thots on this. Thanks!
Click to expand...

I'm an FFL, why would I want to become a criminal & steal parts off your new gun? I am required by the ATF to open the boxes sent me & document the contents. Since the ATF is part of our Gov't & since you obviously trust your Gov't I don't see the problem?
 
Thanks for all of the responses so far.

Just to be clear: my question was not intended to accuse anyone or offend anyone in this forum. I am just trying to gather more information before I commit on my purchase. Considering the economic climate, there are some really desperate people out there.

Incidentally, there are quite a number of pawn shops that do FFL transfers and they charge around $20. Do you guys think these are safe options?
 
Yep...I just picked up my new M&P from the local pawn and Gun. It was shipped from one of the S&W distributors to my local shop for a better new price than any S&W dealer was willing to give me. Everything was in order and it's not the first gun I've bought from him. This shop has more guns in and out the door than any large dealer I know....why? Price and service.
spricks
 
Why would an FFl jeopardize his license, it makes no sense. I'll say it again, you have nothing to worry about. It's normal procedure done thousands of times a day, yours is no different.
 
It depends on the dealer. I've used some in the past that opened them, and two that wanted you there when it was opened so that if there was any damage, there was no question about their part of the transaction playing any role in that. Since tracking these days is usually pretty good, you'll know the day it is delivered, and can make arrangements to be there sometime the same day.
 
I've used the same local gun shop for 3 transfers so far.
All were without any problems.
As stated above, I check to see when it is arriving, and pick it up the same day if possible.
The guns are in the back, so I don't know if he opens it before I arrive or not.
 
Unfortunately, I know of one gun shop that is less than honest...at least, consider it dishonesty (and I am not going to name names.) Now, what I am going to relate is not dealing with a transfer on a sale between two parties, but if they are dishonest in any of their dealings, I would suspect all of their dealings.

I bought several pistols there and then traded them back in on something else. On two occasions, I later saw them in the case marked as "new." I verified this, because when I buy a pistol, I always record the serial number in the owner's manual, and these had them in my handwriting. I questioned them about this, and they said that as long as the pistol had not been fired (which these had not) it was still new. (They also had them priced the same as other new models.)

The other guns shops I have traded with mark my trades as previously owned but unfired (if they haven't been) and are priced less than comparable new, never owned pistols...not much less, but still somewhat less.

To me, the first instance is dishonest...and I wonder if there are ever conflicts with some manufacturers who only warrant the original owner? In any case, I don't do business there any more, since I don't think I can trust them.

My point: learn all you can about your dealer's business practices. If you can't trust them in one thing, you can't trust them in everything, IMO.
 
spricks said:
Yep...I just picked up my new M&P from the local pawn and Gun. It was shipped from one of the S&W distributors to my local shop for a better new price than any S&W dealer was willing to give me. Everything was in order and it's not the first gun I've bought from him. This shop has more guns in and out the door than any large dealer I know....why? Price and service.
spricks
Click to expand...

That's interesting. Can you share who some of these S&W distributors are?
 
I had a friend who had purchased a very high end kimber rifle. The dealer that got it in and opened it up. When the customer came in first thing he noticed was a hugh razor like scratch on the wood. It was a big ole mess and it was determined that one of the employees used a box cutter to open the box and to cut thru the plastic buble wrap. He by mistake put like a 1 ft scratch on the wood. When I bought my brand new test fired only class 3 weapon I didn't think about it being taken out and fired. When my paper work came thru I went to pick it up,and there it was all dirty and what not. I ended up sending it off to have it worked on to fix a busted firing pin. Now when I use an ffl, I ask them very politly to call me when the package arrives so that we can open it together. I'm not trying to be a hard butt,I just want to make sure that what I'm getting is what I bought. Thanks
 
When I was in the business on a special order the customer and I open the package together, but I was a very small FFL. Jeff
 
When I had my 01 FFL way, way back, I always opened the package and logged the gun into my acquisition & disposition book immediately. I would then contact the buyer to come by or sometimes run it over to them along with the 4473 to fill out.

It would have been unlikely for it to have happened in my situation at the time, but you don't want to be sitting there with a gun that had not been logged into your A&D book if ATF showed up for an inspection. The book has to match what's there, to include your personally owned guns. If a dealer gets cranky about you insisting that he open it in your presence, this is where he is coming from.

All of this was in the old days when you could run a little part-time business from your house. No more.

I would say do a little asking around if you are concerned that a dealer might pull a fast one on you. Word gets around quick, good or bad, so it shouldn't be hard to pick a good one. Good luck.
 
I have always used the same dealer, I had only 2 problems one was a broken stock not the dealer's fault. The other was I purchased an unfired collector S&W that ran me about 1400. I got to the store and they had opened the box and played with the revolver and belt buckle.

I knew this because in the photos from the seller there was no turn line on the cylinder and the day man told me it had been handled.

I spoke to the owners who denied it at first then I showed them the photos and told them who did what. It never happened again.

I told them there is about 200 FFL holders in Racine and I could go elswhere if need be.
 
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It is my understanding that when the FFL receives the package he must open it and log it into his inventory. Anything past that is up to you and the dealer.
 
Arthury said:
Incidentally, there are quite a number of pawn shops that do FFL transfers and they charge around $20. Do you guys think these are safe options?
Click to expand...

Yeah, I use a pawn shop. No problems so far through a number of transactions. I pay $30 here in the Seattle area.
 
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