Today I was looking for a replacement for my camping pocket knife which after carrying since 1993 I regrettably lost in Va Beach last month. The knife was a Victornox version of the all stainless Army 4 blade all stainless pocket knife we've all seen.

So at a flea market today I find a stag handle Boker USA 4 blade camper type knife whose metal is turning gray but otherwise looks unsharpened. The $20 price seemed reasonable so I bought it. Latter I show it to a couple guys who I know generally carry pocket knives and they all pull out stainless lock-blades with skeltanized handles and say "this is what we carry."

Last week I was shooting with a small group of people using primarily CCW type pistols and discovered I was the only one with a revolver, a S&W M37. "Oh, our instructors have been advising us to stay away from revolvers as they are too slow to reload." was the response I was given when I commented on that fact.

So why and more importantly HOW did my preferences become so obsolete? A carbon steel, stag handled pocket knife still FEELS right in my hand, how could it be a wrong choice? A 5 shot J frame always SEEMED like enough handgun for CCW, what changed?

People seem to think that technology can triumph over training.

I have a fancy spring open knife but carry a Swiss Army all the time. I can do more with it. A blade is just a blade, I do not plan on using it for self defense.

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Still Running Against the Wind

I have a word for those types , 'tacti-KOOL'!

I have probably a few dozen pocket and folding knives , old to new. I still have some of the old high carbon steel blade Remington knives ya got when ya bought a brick of .22s or a few boxes of rifle cartridges around hunting or Xmas time. But I do find a stainless blade has many advantages. The old 4-blade Boy Scout or USGI pocket knife is hard to beat for non-combat applications. I keep one of these,



German Army surplus Victornox with blade , saw , bottle/can opener and corkscrew , in my truck and toolbox at work and in the tool kits on my motorcycles. Got 4 of them , 2-$15 from Sportsmans Guide years ago.

I too lost my knife a while back. A Buck stockman, that I carried for ages. In haste I got one of them new fangled, small plastic single blade lockbacks. I'm not going to buy another stockman. Sometimes we just get in a rut.

What changed is todays young people are into high tech. They are brain washed by all the specialty magazines that tell us we need the "newest, tatical or whatever". The older you get the more you are apt to run across some of these wonder boys and it tends to make you loose respect. I once ran across a knife magazine that mentioned a "guru" they all seemed to respect. To my amazement I knew and worked with him and didnt know he was supposed to be a writer or a knife guru! I just knew him as another BSer. This guy was looked up to and was adviseing them what to use for undercover blood work etc. What a crock!
When it comes to knives it seems to me a sharp $10 knife can cut someones throat or gut somebody as easily as a $500 randall or whatever.
We run into this thinking whether talking guns, quads, trucks, cars, motorcycles or whatever. What was top dog last year bites the dust in this months new magazines test reports.

If I can't get it done in 5 shots, I'm probably not making it through the event.

There in no wrong choice there is just your choice. Got give all these young whippersnappers a chance.

My choice is to carry a SAK. I use the tools far more than I would the single heavy blade. When I feel I may need a big blade I carry a fixed blade.

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Regards,
Guy-Harold Smith II

..and where did my hair go?


mark

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Liberals made the USA

Many times I have read articles where even police carry a "back up knife" as a weapon. Has anyone here ever read or heard of a real actual account where a cop had to fall back and use a knife to save his life in a knife fight? I can just see that in the news! Now yes, I know a knife can come in handy cutting someones seat belt in a accident and I suppose it acutaly happens somewhere once a week. But a cop gutting someone?

I carry two knives to work..one a small folding lockback knife for cutting boxes and general cutting chores, and a serrated edge "tactic KOOL" knife....the "tactic KOOL" knife has cut 3 sets of horn wires, the negative battery cable of a car, two seat belts, and a length of rope......since January.....
I don't carry it to gut bad guys, but at the scene of a crash when a horn is blaring, or a fuel pump is running, or people are trapped in cars, or have hanged themselves, sometimes you need a good cutting edge....

Rule #9

space space

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Still Running Against the Wind

Seriously, how many times has anyone had to reload to win an LEO type gunfight, but I may not be the best person to ask. I wear a 1968 analog Bulova Spaceview watch.....

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Pat Henson

As far as the revolver, if it should come to an unpleasant event, I figure after I shoot 6 people it's probably time to duck.
Had a beautiful Case Cheetah ("Razor Edge" on the blade) with stags. It walked off one day. I was so upset that, really, I don't carry any of my pocket knives. They reside in the drawer of my reloading bench in case I need one to open something.

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and what his trumpet saith

Nostalgia is nice and all that, but there's a reason the sheriff deputies at my department don't carry Single Action Army handguns in our holsters and Winchester lever carbines in our cars.

Not all old stuff is necessarily obsolete, but not all new technology is bad either.

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I'm right there with you. If I read one more word about an AR or a Glock, I'll scream!!!

PCP was invented.

Sorry, but I teach graduate level courses, and when one of my students makes a statement like that, I have to ask, what is the reason?

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Pat Henson

I look at it as changing fashions-as a Steel and Walnut man I wrinkle my nose at polymer, aluminum, titanium, etc. Conversely I would probably prefer a Winchester lever action in 30-30 over an AR-15 in .223 as I have little faith in that round. Regarding the "semiauto vs. revolver" controversy, Bill Jordan noted that Charlie Askins became an advocate of the semiauto only AFTER his gunfighting days were over.
Now I DO like the modern multi-tools, they fill a REAL niche IMHO.

I didn't realize we were getting graded on this forum.

Eh, these darned kids with their fancy high-capacity bows and arrows ... no one cares about marksmanship anymore--they just fling projectiles all over! Why, when I was a pup, we had spears! Still use one today! Takes some real skill to use that! You only get one shot, and it better count! But one hit with a spear has as much knock-down power as half a dozen arrow hits, yessirree.



Hope this helps, and Semper Fi.

Ron H.

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Wishin' don't make it so.

Maybe not graded, but when someone says there's a reason and then doesn't state the reason, it seems like an invalid point to me. Cute little eye rolling avatars don't really qualify either. I hope you all discuss this till you find the true answer. As for me I'm out of here.

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Pat Henson

I didn't have a choice. They said I had to carry the pilun and the gladius hispanus.

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Field Researcher. IGC

I thought the reason was pretty clear, for LEOS they need at least the firepower if not more to keep up with what the bad guys have.

For an individual CCW, no, I do not think we need 10-15 rounds. At least I don't.

We liked it when our Prof left the room. We left also.

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Still Running Against the Wind

Edit: LEO's have needs outside the scope of normal citizens-so I'll leave it at that.

From a guy who uses a P51 (not the airplane), a twenty five year old Ka-Bar, a Woodsman's Pal, hunts with a thirty year old Mauser 308, (I could go on and on) I hear ya!!

"What changed" is powerful, relentless, MARKETING.

...caution, small thread hijack...
I'm so sick of being marketed to, I actually PAY to avoid it.

NPR, SiriousXM, Pandora (subscribed), Netflix, Apple TV.

I have no cable TV, and NEVER watch "regular" tv.

If I could pay a monthly fee to some entity to have all ads, billboards, etc. that we see every day invisible to me I would gladly pay it, I would pay a lot for it.

...back to your regularly scheduled programing...

I think dcxplant nailed it. It is the marketing.

What else would cause a 250 pound 5'7" man to dress up in tacti-cool cammys, carry the latest polymer semi and three extra mags and a little 380 as his back up in case he can't get back to his Benelli or Bushmaster in the truck?

I like Glocks. Took a long time for me, but I do like them. They work, and work for me every time. But everyday carry is still a lightweight J-Frame in my right front pocket or on my ankle.

The Glock and the semi-custom 1911 are relegated to lesser duties, mostly fun-type shooting.

My knife is a Benchmade with the Axis system only because it is so fast and the arthritis in my thumb (which also took me out of shooting the SAAs) makes it hard to open most knives.

I do have cable, and rarely watch anything on "regular" TV. I always mute the commercials (except some of the funnier Geico commercials) and generally pay no attention to billboards.

My trapguns are top singles, not the unsingles which are the current rage. Unsingles can be canted so easily, causing the shooter to shoot behind the target. Top singles are harder to cant or cant so much as to affect the shot. I shoot to win, not look cool or have folks admire my guns.

My phone makes phone calls. It will take a photo, but I haven't taken any. I don't get the weather, Fox News or the Forum on it and, since Pong lost its popularity, I've never played any games on it either.

Oooops, I just realized...I'm old!

Bob

I learned to shoot with a single shot Stevens .22 and had to save up for a week to buy a box of ammo. I am old fashioned... and old, well at least older. I just like the simpler things in life. Back when workers took pride in their product. I enjoy a lot of modern conveniences, but I still camp by sleeping on the ground and roll up in a piece of canvas and buffalo robe. With all the marketing it's just a sign of the times. Different strokes for different folks. Nuff said.

Pit bulls became hyper popular as open carry deadly weapons?

Case is making the Cheetah again now. Better grab one while you can.

I carry a Victorinox Adventurer/BoyScout model Swiss Army Knife with a Photon LED and a Boy Scout Firestarter on the key ring. I bought it in '93. I'm a Customs Inspector, so I use it to open just about everything, including Piper Cubs. My carry handguns are a 2.5" Model 66 and a 1-7/8" Model 642, winter and summer, respectively, with speedloader. The youngsters think they're high speed and we did too, when we were younger. If more bullets encourage them to go deeper into trouble, so be it.

I have a 1911 45 that I carry occasionaly but for every day carry it's a titianium 5 shot revolver isw holster, with a speed stip in my pocket. If 10 shots don't get me out I'm in too deep anyway. I have carried a pocket knife for 60 yrs. They are a given.

Obsolete? No. Not even obsolescent. And even if it were true, it doesn't mean useless. Think of all the cowboys with Winchesters killed by arrows. I must have seemed strange to be done in by obsolescence.
Sometimes it's just a matter of style.

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Field Researcher. IGC

Revolvers are slow to reload? I also qualify with a S&W K frame when I do my yearly LEOSA qual. I'm up and firing after the mandatory reload stage before most of the officers with bottom feeders. Take a gander at Jerry Miculek's videos if you think the revolver is slow to reload.

Regarding knives, My Swiss Army super tinker has been in my pocket since high school back in the 60s. I haven't needed anything else for general use.

The second time my Brother-in-Law was wounded in Vietnam it was with a crossbow bolt.

I think your shooting group needs a new instructor. I suppose they were not told about guide spring and magazine failure, jambs or such. Did the instructors overlook mentioning that revolvers are more reliable and idiot proof? What about revolvers being more accurate?

Sure, I use a 1911 but would not hesitate to carry a revolver.

It's a little leap comparing a SAA to a lever gun. I've always wondered what was wrong with lever guns for regular police work. I've never heard of a single case where a good .30-30 wouldn't have quickly gotten the job done.

I guess I still consider myself young at 34. Glad the above stuff skipped me. I carry a revolver, $40.00 Kershaw Leek, and drive a couple Jeep CJ's.

Plus 1 for what Oldman45 said. For the last 15 years a 1911 in 45 acp, a J frame 38, a lock blade and some sort of regular folding pocket knife have been with me when I left the house.

Not sure which part you didn't understand, but I'll try to clarify.

Some folks on this forum seem to indicate that they'd rather utilize certain firearms in modern defensive situations for nostalgic reasons rather than actual practicality. I regulary see them state they'd rather use "steel and wood" because it has a "soul". A hundred years ago a Colt's Single Action Army or a Winchester carbine were probably close to state of the art, but the reason they are not used for serious defense today is because more modern, effective, weapons have been developed.

As for the last sentence . . . there are some old firearms and designs that are still quite effective. The model 1911 would be one example. Just because it's now 100 years old, doesn't mean it's obsolete just because of age.

Secondly, many of those who get hung up on nostalgia in their firearms seem to think new technology, such as polymer firearms, are not as good as 'steel and wood'. That's just not true.

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