320 million "Legally"?

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Don't tread on me

I wonder what folks think will happen when the "Welfare" is turned off. We are not the same society or people of the 1920s and 30s. I don't see the "Entitled" saying, "I guess I'll eat a little less and stop drinking Alcohol and using Crack/Meth".

If you don't have the mindset and means to protect yourself and you family, you shall be in for hard times. If you live in a rural area, you have a big head start on the Urbanites. The Big Cities will become a war zones and the savages will eat those who have no means to protect themsleves.

I can remember in the last LA Riots (Can't we just get a Loan)
they had a special on a Black Family that lived in the Riot Torn Area. The father was a well educated Engineer, the son in college and the wife and high school daughter. The new crew followed him out of the area that had banned selling guns and ammo, to an area south of LA, Orange County I think. The man and his son went into a gun store and bought a Ruger Security Six and a Mini 14 and ammo. After the purchase was completed, the sales clerk took the weapons back and shoved the ammo across the counter and said come back in 15 days and well give you your guns.
The father and son tried to argue with the clerks that they needed them now to defend their family and their home. The clerks said, "Sorry, but its the law". The father and son went back home and ripped some two by fours into 8 foot poles and sharpened one end in the father's basement wood shop. The end of the short new report showed the father and son in their nice split level ranch watching a big screen TV holding the spears they had made.
They were stunned at the law and I was stunned that a man in that state would not be allowed to protect his family in troubled times.

I just wish I would have know that it was to be on and I could have recorded it. I've never been able to find it since.

Other than that, like my old Boy Scoutmaster used to say, "Be Prepared".

Rule 303

Nope. but legal or not they're here, competing for our dwindling resources.

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SOS USA

its a really sad time when a people will push the elderly aside for there own good !!!!!!!!!!!!

And medicine. How long would diabetics, hypertensives, and heart patients last when their medicine runs out??

After finishing that book, I now keep an extra 12 months of my prescriptions on hand. Better prepared than sorry.

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Life Member NRA Since 1985

if the electricity goes out, insulin is only good for about a month. after that, you might as well try to enjoy your last day or two.

Hi Thirty Acres, Glad you read the book "One Second After" and learned some things...I know it fundamentally changed how I think and plan for things and now keep several months supply of medicine, water, food and ammo...I hope others will read it...Parts of it are very sad like when the prescription drugs run out and people start to die off from simple things and diseases easily taken care of back when things were normal...It is a hard but necessary lesson to do and plan things now rather than be sorry later...

I was going to take my guns and ammo, gold bouillon, mre's and bulk toilet paper and move to an island but then I found out that zombies CAN SWIM!!! Do you believe it? Zombies can swim! Now what am I going to do?

Eh. It's been a Depression for a while now. Some places are hit worse than others. The safety net that some malign or even blame has simply kept people from starving. (Check out the percentage of the population getting food stamps now.) Well that and a lot of off the books and casual economic transactions - bartering, drug dealing, handyman work, yard sales, you name it.

I've seen a fair number of classic Smith and Wessons that would be sought after on here sit and take multiple price drops here in SC. Collectors won't pay collectors prices, and people that want a gun for protection generally don't snap up older revolvers. The going rate on a decent carry grade 36 is also hovering down around 300 dollars it seems.

If things get too bad, the Army will simply take over and run the country. Troops will be paid in military payment certificates (monopoly money, just like was given out in South Vietnam). MPC will be redeemable at the comm. or exchange, which will be kept stocked to some level. (This would just be a broader application of the way local scrip was issued during the earlier Great Depression.) The currency will ultimately be backed up with stored supplies of food and fuel.

Many see this scenario as days, months away..with time to
shift funds. store goods ect...
Would tomorrow catch you off guard ....I mean 8-5-2011 ?

In 1960 I was traveling through I think, williams arizona. I stopped at a ma & pa gas station/grocery store. The walls were totaly lined with many colts, winchesters etc. Now these werent pristine collector guns, but most were well used good shape guns, cap & balls, colt single actions etc. Today they would be knocked off within a day or two.
I asked the old boy how he amassed such a fine collection. He had been there many years, through the depression. He said people would come through broke and he would give them gas for guns. (I belive this was on old route 66). He said he bought many colt single actions and winchesters from broke cowboys for maybe $7 or $8 s!!
So much for some heres theory that they are going to get rich on hoarding guns and ammo! Now, if the senerio is like germany trying to take stalingrad and some rich guy doesnt have a gun-----, well, I dont see THAT kind of thing happening here, but a bad depression like they had in the 30s or worse is possible. I will concede that the lack of morales are off the scale and a gun will be more nessasary than they were in 1932, but how many over one do you need?

IMHO. Four, two handguns, one rifle, one shotgun, and a reasonable stash of ammo for each one.

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Always Stay Strong!

Because of my Army injurys, if not for my wife I would be living on the streets. many of my friends have been out of work for the last year, or on and off employment. I have been using some of the money that I get from the VA running a food bank out of the trunk of my car.

I have been tring to do what I can, when I can. Stocking up when I can. I have been going to school since fall of 09 on a VA program, and have crossed paths with people whos whole industry has colapsed.

Been on meds since January that enable me to walk with out falling down, and wear shoes. Acording to my doctor girl that I have, I take a pill daily, and have a new bottle sent monthly which enables me to have a several months of back-up if needed.

Spring of 09 I put in garden beds, and planted a lot of stuff making notes of what was doing good and how much to "plant."

In my small group of friends, we have been doing a lot to help each other out. Watching each others kids, fixing cars, reloading ammo, trading out our kids clothes, and toys when they out grow them.

Moms neihbor, Dorthy, was a teen during the depression in the midwest. I asked her how they made it. Her answer was, those who took action, and took care of themselfs did ok. She said her dad sold the store he owned and bought a farm, raised crops, for sale and lived off the land. She said that farm life was a lot work but never really suffered any.

When asking about reloading, its usually what ever I have scrapped up, and have to make do with what I have.

The working class will make it some how with sacrifice, The Entitled class will make 3 months while they live off their obesity. I have never seen a "skinny" person check out at Wally Mart with food stamps.

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S&WHF 366

They don't fight back as hard as the 20 somethings.

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Forum consigliere

I applaud you both for your service and dedication.

I wish I had your conviction. I find you have to be creative sometimes. Like bird hunting. I don't like the taste of pheasants, too dry even in a slow cooker but its my dog's favorite. So, I jerky the meat for dog treats. I save a little $$, justify the need to bird hunt and owning a bird dog.

But if this country goes into a meltdown, I would suspect we could model what the Russians did during the Soviet years. The government put aside a small plot of land for each person so they could raise their own food. This 10% of land created 90% of the total food output in the country. Everyone grew food and used that to barter what they needed in the black market.

After watching the movie "The Road", I started seriously thinking about non-firearm type weapons that could be used for (primarily) hunting. Bow and arrow and crossbows came to mind quickly, but won't work for me due to my upper body injuries. I own a Diana Model 34 air rifle in .177 caliber that would be good for small game, but I don't have enough money to justify the $1,000.00+ dollars needed for the new Crossman Rogue air rifle that shoots .38 caliber bullets and would serve for larger (deer) sized game. I also worry that the electronic components of this rifle would not be readily repairable. Almost anyone could make their own bullets (projecitles), it's a harder proposition to make your own powder and primers. I'm still thinking on this one.

Regards,

Dave

Sure hope you're going to explain because I'm not following. Maybe just me.

Bob

You might be suppressed what game can be taken with the old Benjamin/Sheridan series of 20 and 22 caliber air rifles. A friend in HS used to head shoot swimming geese with his on occasions that his family REALLY needed the meat. Planning on living off deer is over rated and optimistic, in my opinion.

Unless you live waaaayyyy back in the boonies to begin with, in those times game populations decline quickly, as anyone with a .22 will quickly depopulate his immediate area in short order and surviving animals become very hard to locate.

For all the drivel about the "noble red man" and his ecological lifestyle, the truth was more that they were nomadic for the most part because when they had hunted out all the game in an area they had to move to survive. Heavy Cherokee ancestry here, so spare me any righteous indignation from their defenders. Jeff Cooper noted the same in his writings in his observance of South American Indian cultures. Not much game in even a sparsely populated area where folks hunt to eat.

Poaching during hard times is a fact of life.

I've got an old Sheridan silver .20. I 've been watching the movie "King Rat" to pick up on recipes.

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SOS USA

Learn to set snares and rig other traps. Traps are a somewhat better option than hunting anyway - spreads out the chance of getting something. The rat traps you can get at the store will catch all sorts of things in a pinch (not the mouse traps). Also get a fishing rod and a net.

Beyond that, get a flintlock. A large bore one, .75 caliber or so. I've made my own powder. Crude homemade powder works better in cannons and larger bores. (A 1" or above bore would be nice, but becomes more of a swivel cannon.) Primers are dangerous to try to make and the chemicals are increasingly restricted. That leaves flintlocks and matchlocks. Either will stay in service - if cared for even under primitive conditions - a lot longer than an airgun.

Hunting crossbows of high quality are quite expensive and also increasingly complicated.

Hard Times Comes:
I have negative food, money, firearms, or ammo-
Put on my pink matching outfit and stand on a street corner.

Depression; aren't we already there? Not a 1930s style depression but.....I'll be keeping my Smith & Wessons.

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Tom
"Panem et Circenses"

Many people have this fantasy they are gonna live off the land. The ones saying it I suspect havent really done much hunting. I havent done much hunting or fishing myself in a number of years, but in the 1950s, 60,s, 70`s I lived to. I couldnt began to count the days I got skunked fishing and hunting without seeing a deer. Of course everything depends on where you hunt etc. Everyone else is going to be trying it too. In a extream shtf senero that lasts a long time game is going to be shot off and even harder to find. Land owners arent going to take kindly to trespassers. The west has unending miles of dessert. Most dessert is BLM. There isnt much on the dessert you would want to eat unless your into rodents, snakes, lizzards and yotes. In that senerio in my area, most of las vegas will be in my area trying to play mountain man.
Now most mountain ranges are pretty darn steep and you just dont get off what trails there are very easy. Most these trails dont go far. I ride them with the quad as much as I can. Almost every ride you go up on the trail and back to your truck and trailer backtracking on the same trail. A small % of the rides can you actualy hook up with other trails and work your way back in a loop without backtracking what you already rode. You put most of the people from the citys that think they are "gonna live off the land" in the mountains and it would get interesting real quick! You just dont get off the trails very easy in mountain country!
Game go`s in cycles. We have lived here 6+ years. The first year durring the winter I could go north of town in the so called winter range and see herds of deer and count 800 to a 1,000 or so in a hour drive. This year same area, same time of the year you might see 40 to 70! I used to see a few elk. This year havent seen any in the same areas.
The cattle and sheep ranchers that run their stock in the mountains wont take kindly to rustlers either. Mountain country can get rain every afternoon. This being a gun chat site it follows that a high percentage here have experiance hunting. But if any here that havent hunted and are thinking, "I am just going to hit the hills when the day comes" better go out there and try it for a week and see if you need to change your plans!

During WWII and the Japanese occupation, the Filipinos made primers by decapping old ones from fired cases, removing the anvils, then flattening the primer shell from the inside with a flat punch and a hammer. New primer compound was made from match heads, inserted in the recycled primer, and the old anvil re-inserted. Black powder was made via the traditional formula, and bullets were made from solid curtain rods. This was crude stuff, but it worked after a fashion. Where there's a will, there's a way.

John

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- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -

Does this mean no NFL football this year?

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Sure you did

Doubtful.

Most people these days don't know which end the bullet comes out of, much less how to hunt game. Few with no experience will try. Even fewer will be successful.

What's FAR more likely is that they will turn on other people as prey and try to take what THEY have without working to get their own.

It might be different in the country, but I don't live in the country. In such a situation, rural West Virginia or any similar place is as relevant to me as the Onon Mountains of Mongolia.

There wasn't a lot of competition for prime hunting land during Katrina... unless you consider urban neighborhoods and the Superdome(?) "hunting land".

Of course that's even MORE of a reason to be armed and willing to do whatever is necessary to protect yourself and any who depend on you.

I just finished a book called, "Lucifer's Hammer" about the before and after a comet impacting the planet. The aftermath made me want to lay in as much non-perishables as I could and stuff every one of the thousands of empty cartridge cases in my cave.

Along with having recently read about a couple of significant scenarios on a couple of other sites,...well...I feel a little self-conscious about the degree of my concern. But I tell ya, my ears are pricked.

For myself, it's almost down to a three-pronged question:
-Will it actually get that bad?
-If it indeed does, what'll be tougher, eating or defending what you have from the desperate have-nots? My missus and I share the view that we'll share what we have with those that are less than able to help themselves, i.e. elderly and misplaced kids (pray that doesn't happen), but if anyone attempts to forcibly TAKE from us, they'll just get lost in the shuffle.

Good on principle but practically speaking, a tall order factoring in human physiology and a limited number who are able to defend.

Another issue that tears me up is that I have a 15 year-old son who CAN shoot but lives with his mother in a densely populated suburb (60 miles away) and there's not enough sand in existence with which she could bury her head to her satisfaction.

Attempting to get him here would be unsurvivable.

Now you've got me hoping for the collapse of society!

Based on the philosophy the Powers That Be have been demonstrating they will likely scour the countryside foraging for supplies which will be transferred to a central disposition center. How else can they ensure equal distribution of available resources to all?

I hope all the possibilities have been covered, because we're done here.

Maybe it's the heat, but it seems difficult for everyone to stay off politics the last few days.

I've always favored slash and burn for cleaning The Lounge- once a thread needs 'handling' two or three times, it's probably more trouble than it is worth. This one has reached that quota.

In the future, look for points to be handed out liberally when you go political. The Mods here work far too hard for far too little gratification to dance with the same offenders day in and day out.

Fair Warning.

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Regards,
Lee Jarrett