PIRATES AT SEA !!!

[S&W357]

I just saw the movie ''Captain Phillips''. I'm not going to get into a hole big thing but why is the crew not aloud to carry guns ?

[Tom Beavert]

I understand they are illegal in many ports where these ships call.
Someone will be along soon with the correct answer.
tb

[shouldazagged]

How was the movie?

[S&W357]

Originally Posted by shouldazagged

How was the movie?

I'm 1/2 way into it. People are here to look at our house. It's up for sale. I have to leave now--I will be back !!!! That movie makes me want to give the crew my guns so they can shoot them !!!! The bad guys !!!!

[Philadelphia Patriot]

I saw it in theaters. I liked the movie a lot, but I still think the crew could have done more to fight back. I too was also angry that the crew didn't/couldn't have weapons, but I know there are legalities involved.

[VictorLouis]

Great movie, just watched it last night. Hanks' best is in the last FIVE mins, IMHO.

IMHO, the laws should allow for arms at least while asea outside of port. Then, perhaps secured storage of arms once the ship is safely under the control of the tugs, or harbormaster, or what-have-you of each nation. Capt, XO, and perhaps Engineering chief with only access. Something not to burdensome, and easily verifiable by port police/inspectors.

[S&W357]

Originally Posted by VictorLouis

Great movie, just watched it last night. Hanks' best is in the last FIVE mins, IMHO.

IMHO, the laws should allow for arms at least while asea outside of port. Then, perhaps secured storage of arms once the ship is safely under the control of the tugs, or harbormaster, or what-have-you of each nation. Capt, XO, and perhaps Engineering chief with only access. Something not to burdensome, and easily verifiable by port police/inspectors.

That is right!! Carry in international waters. That's what i don't get !!! Even I can carry a gun when your 5 miles out. All it takes is two guys on deck with a 308 and a good scope. You don't even have to aim at the men. Aim at that 1960 Johnson motor. Sometime there is more to a story then we know. Maybe big brother wants this to happen for some reason??

[Ivan the Butcher]

The shipping companies don't want the crew armed, to stop AD's or mutiny. On small privet boats my friends are always armed at sea in the Caribbean, and stand watch at night! Stainless 659 S&W, stainless mini-14, and Mossburg 500 Marine Coat- 2 of each on board (The women are armed and stand watch also.) When in port in a nation that prohibits firearms, they are surrendered to the Harbor Master, My friends stayed in international waters and would go ashore in the auxillery boat rather than be unarmed in those waters! A different acquaintance was a treasure diver. His barge stayed in international waters, he had a M-2 50 Browning and a 75 mm recoiless rifle for the pirates. He would radio a May-day, when under attack, but by the time the U.S. Coast Guard could get there, there would only be pirate wreckage and bodies. The USCG would gladly resupply his 50 BMG ammo but couldn't help with the old recoiless ammo. The official penalty for piracy is death, it just come quicker if you attack someone well armed. Ivan

[S&W357]

When I go Tuna fishing on my boat -we go out 99 miles. We past the shipping lanes at 15 miles. For now on ,i'm not going near them. They may shoot at me thinking i'm a bad guy. I carry my guns all the time and two shot guns. I'm bringing more ammo next time i go out....Here are some pictures -how close i get to them.. But the rewards are great!!!

[Old TexMex]

Originally Posted by S&W357

I just saw the movie ''Captain Phillips''.....but why is the crew not aloud to carry guns ?

Good question. The companies universally prohibit the possession of firearms, excepting individual cases of designated guards as they (rarely) decide to allow. I have been that designated officer numerous times.
National laws have,and can without notice be changed. Example: Mexico- 2004 firearms were to be inventoried and held by Port Captain on clearing health, customs and immigration and returned on sailing. 2005- Any vessel found with arms or ammunition on board are SEIZED. (the whole ship). So you can see the real threat is not pirates.
With over 40 yrs as a USMM officer, I've seen it change a lot, for the worse. Why do you think the pirates are bold? Because ships at sea are "gun free zones".

[chief38]

Originally Posted by S&W357

I just saw the movie ''Captain Phillips''. I'm not going to get into a hole big thing but why is the crew not aloud to carry guns ?

Mostly "Political Correctness" I would imagine.

[Old TexMex]

Most foreign nations have very strict gun laws, and the ships are never registered USA. They are greek, panamanian, liberian, etc. So, no right to keep and bear.

Edit: I have to correct myself. The foreign nations that hold registry DENY the God given right to keep and bear arms.

[CAJUNLAWYER]

TexMex nailed it as I figured he would. Additionally, the insurers do not allow it. I have a friend in the marine insurance business and he used to send me the pirate reports. It's a lot more widespread than one would believe. It is strictly a money thing with them. They figure it's cheaper not having guns aboard and dealing with the ransom demands than having a firefight and the attendant ruckus (and Jones act/unseaworthiness claims of a sailor injured or killed) that would ensue. As my "yachts" are registered domestically in the "Gret Stet" they are considered "free fire" zones
As a duly licensed attorney and Notary Public in and for the Gret Stet I am also licensed to perform marriages aboard "ship" that last the duration of the voyage.
Which is why I won't participate in any long distance races to Mexico any more-we used to carry but Mexico WILL seize the boat if firearms are aboard and I ain't crossing the gulf without firearms aboard.

[S&W357]

Originally Posted by Old TexMex

Most foreign nations have very strict gun laws, and the ships are never registered USA. They are greek, panamanian, liberian, etc. So, no right to keep and bear.

Edit: I have to correct myself. The foreign nations that hold registry DENY the God given right to keep and bear arms.

Your telling me they can't have guns in open waters? Then lock the guns up at port?

[Comrad]

Time for a variation of the Shoot Shovel Shhhh rule.

Shoot, Sink, Shhhh

[Kid44]

Originally Posted by S&W357

I just saw the movie ''Captain Phillips''. I'm not going to get into a hole big thing but why is the crew not aloud to carry guns ?

It's because no one is aloud to carry a gun, but some people are allowed to carry one. A hole needs to be big enough for you to get into, but it's easy to get into the whole thing.

[jag312]

After my father left the military, he went to the Merchant Marine and was a ships captain. Even in the military, he never left port without his personal Smith & Wesson revolver. When his ship was torpedoed in the North Atlantic in WW2, the only thing he saved was his Smith & Wesson. If he was still sailing today, company rules be damned, he would have his much beloved Smith & Wesson with him. If pirates were to approach his ship, he would use that revolver to encourage the pirates to go elsewhere. And knowing my father, he would just forget to report the incident to the company. He had more important things to do, and a little incident like this would just slip his mind.

[Old TexMex]

Originally Posted by S&W357

Your telling me they can't have guns in open waters? Then lock the guns up at port?

Yes, that's right. Because ships must call into foreign ports to perform the business of shipping. Remember, very few, VERY few ships that sail international are U.S. Flagged.
And, the owners of the ships would rather not have their ships seized by a foreign nation and held for ransom by them, which is what would happen in many countries.
You CAN have guns in international waters, just don't call into a foreign port that has "gun laws".
Their agents come aboard, and search, often very diligently, for weapons and ammo.

[MOONDAWG]

Arrrrrr....

[Trooperdan]

I thought there was an option to remain in international waters and have the local customs come out to the boat, inspect secure and seal any firearms into locker that was re-inspected upon departure, apparently no?

[Engineer1911]

How can I take that pirate cruise if guns aren't allowed onboard ship? You know the one where you bring the gun and they supply bed, board, and ammo for the price of a southern cruise. You must have gotten the email?

[Old TexMex]

Yeah, the anti gunners are screwing it up for everyone.
We're supposed to call the "first responders". Which, if one is off the coast of Brazil or the Ivory Coast, could take a while for them to get there.
All that paperwork, virtually every country having different laws (and subject to change without notice), less than ethical customs officers, ships agents and Port Captains all contributes to the ships owners not wanting to risk even an hour delay at sailing time or clearing in.
Quite frankly, I rekon the owners don't really value the lives of their crews to the point of risking even a short delay which costs thousands, or a long delay which might cost millions.
And if the underwriters thought the odds favored (a) arming the ships to guard against pirates, as opposed to
(b)the possibility of losing the ship to seizure in Port Bamboola (for violating their gun laws) then they would have required it.

Pirates are a lot rarer than crooked/misguided foreign port officials.

[chief38]

Originally Posted by S&W357

I just saw the movie ''Captain Phillips''. I'm not going to get into a hole big thing but why is the crew not aloud to carry guns ?

AND...... if the Crew DID carry guns there would be no need or reason for the Hollywood movie!

[williamlayton]

There are more piartes and killings and kidnappings in the Gulf than you will ever hear about.
Blessings

[Kid44]

Originally Posted by williamlayton

There are more piartes and killings and kidnappings in the Gulf than you will ever hear about.
Blessings

If no one hears about them how do we know they are happening??

[rdcl]

Originally Posted by shouldazagged

How was the movie?

I just watched it last night. I liked it. The guy playing the pirate leader was very convincing.......didn't come across as your typical hollywood villain. He was totally believable.

The one thing that will always amaze me........not just the movie, but the real-life event.......is how those 3 SEAL snipers were able to make the shots they did. Yes, I know it really happened and that SEAL snipers are good at what they do, but think about how difficult those shots were!
On the fantail of a moving ship......in the dark....each making simultaneous head-shots at an enclosed lifeboat that is itself bobbing up & down on the ocean!

Just flat out amazing. Those guys are cut from different cloth than you & I.


Russ

[CAJUNLAWYER]

Originally Posted by williamlayton

There are more piartes and killings and kidnappings in the Gulf than you will ever hear about.
Blessings

What's a piarte????

[williamlayton]

I am suprised you would ask that Caj---you being a man of the law and well educated--besides being a Cajun---it is, well er, aaawww hell, I just don't know how to spell.
Blessings

[LVSteve]

Originally Posted by S&W357

Your telling me they can't have guns in open waters? Then lock the guns up at port?

No. When you are in somebody's territorial waters, you are on their territory. If their laws say no guns, then there had better not be any guns. Unless you are in a warship, your vessel is not sovereign territory, no matter where it is registered.

[Squarebutt]

I've often thought there should be a helicopter service out of some friendly port that would land a crate of Walmart shotguns onto your deck as soon as you pass into international waters. Then you drop them overboard just before you arrive in an unfriendly port. It's a waste of good guns, I know, but a small price for doing business safely off Somalia and other hellholes.

[moe smith]

I thought if you were being attacked you should poke your attacker with your car keys. Oh wait, that was in a parking lot. Well what about blowing a whistle, I hear that scares them off. Oh wait, I suppose no one would really hear it. Ok how about stop drop and roll? Oh wait, that was for something else, fire I think.

To me the obvious issue here is how do you defend against armed attackers when government tells you you can't defend yourself? Piracy is exactly the same as being robbed on the streets of Chicago. You can't have a gun, they do. Deal with it, call a cop, scream help until you're blue in the face. Place your fate in the hands of your attackers and bet your life on their ability to be reasonable and spare you. Sadly the powers that be can't or won't see the parallels.

But back to Somalia. For me it's simple.

On the ships transiting waters know to be infested with pirates, arm them. If the crew doesn't feel comfortable, send a security team. One or two people is all it would take. It can't add that much to the overall cost of the shipment. if countries don't want to comply, don't carry goods to or from those countries. Period. It won't be too many bounced checks before they realize who is keeping their lights on.

[rojodiablo]

Originally Posted by Old TexMex

Most foreign nations have very strict gun laws, and the ships are never registered USA. They are greek, panamanian, liberian, etc. So, no right to keep and bear.

Edit: I have to correct myself. The foreign nations that hold registry DENY the God given right to keep and bear arms.

Actually, the number of vessels carrying armed security crews is VERY high in the gulf of Aidan at this point and time. Many shipping companies do not allow armed crew itself because their insurance does not allow it.
There are a thousand ways to get permission to carry firearms for security in a plethora of nations who have severely restrictive gun laws...... don't kid yourself on that. When the owner of Google goes to Mexico on vacation..... he has legal armed guards with him.

My thought from way, way back when I was working related details was we should put drones on every ship running in the region. The drones could be controlled remotely by government issuing agency, whether it be USAF, FBI, Spetznaz, IDF, etc.
A threat is recognized and reported. The drone is sent up and flies out, and recon camera views discern whether the threat is real, or a non issue. If a non-issue, the drone returns to ship, lands, and is refueled and set up for service. If the threat is real, the security force operating the drone takes the threat and sends it straight to the bottom. The drone then returns to the ship, and is prepared for service.
Each drone would need only 1 tender to service; so you might have an AF guy or a security drone guy hired by the FBI or whatever to do nothing but keep the drone fed and watered.
No crew can get antsy and pissy and attack a fishing boat for just getting too close for comfort.

The mere threat of this kind of system would greatly reduce the piracy issue overnight.....Once it had been used a couple times.

[amazingflapjack]

I read the book, and I kept thinking...just one .50 mounted up a little high.

[islamoradamark]

hey enginner1911 i got that e-mail funny as heck as i remembered they were renting them also

[Teddydog]

Wasn't/isn't the US putting Marine security detachments on US flag ships in known piracy areas, like off Somalia?

[wuluf]

Watched the movie last night, from Netflix. There was an anti-piracy warning before the movie started..

Sent from my HTC One X+ using Tapatalk

[OFT II]

Originally Posted by CAJUNLAWYER

What's a piarte????

Isn't that what they call "fool's gold"?

AAARG!

[kraigwy]

All ships should be armed.