I just heard on the news that this is the snowiest October on record in NY state and other parts of the N.E. Looks like its going to be a warm and balmy winter.

I am constantly amazed at the number of phd's in climatology and environmental studies that are found on gun boards. Who knew that this is the local hangout for all of these genuises.(Tongue planted firmly in cheek, for those unaware.)

Killing turkeys causes winter.

The science is solid though the models less than perfect. And no one who understands the issues calls it global warming any more for exactly this reason. Climate change affects different localities differently. There is almost universal consensus among climate scientists that the climate is changing, the legitimate debates are about the cause and whether we can stop it from happening.

The climate is going to change, it has changed over and over and will again.

I can show you sediments where there was a drought in the west 1500 years ago that lasted 500 years. There wasn't a thing growed in that ground for the whole time, and you won't find a single car tire track in the whole thing.

Get a time machine..go back in time and talk to the Greenland Vikings about climate change.

I'm starting to believe maybe the climate is changing. I'm pretty certain the weather is different than it was last year at this time, or 30 or 50 years ago. I wasn't around 80 or 100 years ago, so I can't guess about that.

I'm also pretty sure there's a lot of money in preaching the party line about global warming. There's sure no money in the other side, being honest and doing research and reporting the results if they don't prove the wanted theory.

The whole thing makes me start to wonder if the entire field of government grants isn't just a big waste of money. Our tax dollars.

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Dick Burg

The glaciers in Alaska have been receeding for at least 200 years.

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- Change it back -

The climate is getting warmer: we've been in the warming phase of an interglacial for about 10,000 years. I think peak to peak the cycle is about 40,000 years, so we are in the period when climate change is quickest. 10,000 years ago the Bering Strait was above sea level from all the water locked up in glaciers. That's when humans came over to the New World from Asia; I think there's about 300 feet of sea water above it now.

Then there was that 'mini ice age' that lasted from 1400 AD to the early 1800s (I'm not good on dates). That's what caused the Danes to lose contact with their colonies (there were two of them) in Greenland for almost 100 years. When the Danes went back, the colonies were gone. If the level of warming has increasd so much lately, maybe we're in the start of a naturally occuring 'miniature hot spell" .

Global Warming Hoax: 141 Scientists Sign Letter Sent to UN Secretary-General Questioning Global Warming

Interesting read....

If anyone truly wants to discuss global warming/climate change, have at it.

Sliding political commentary into a discussion won't work.
I get very tired of dealing with the same people on this issue.

Take the hint.

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Regards,
Lee Jarrett

One of my ranting liberal colleagues assured me that climate change was impossible without human intervention. We have gotten quite full of ourselves that we can actually believe that.

My brother and relatives in Adams Co. PA got 3 to 4 inches of heavy wet snow over night. And I'm freezing here in St Pete.
I want my global warming and I want it now!
I say a class action law suit for compensation. My niece sent a photo of her crushed gazebo. :-p

I don't care which way it goes. I got both a coat AND a fan so I'm prepared either way, thanx.

Now there is the correct answer. Congrats.

I'm pulling for warming myself, I just plain don't like winter!

I don't wonder about that at all. I'm certain of it. It's like someone reaching into your wallet and giving the contents to a favorite cousin. Same principle, same result. You lose.

John

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- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -

One thing nice about winter and snow, you don't need to worry about keeping the beer cold when power goes out from some idiot opening the wrong breaker someplace!
jcelect

We hear a lot about 'greenhouse gases". This is bafflespeak for carbon dioxide, CO2 (can't get subscript here, I guess). There are vexing qustions surrounding the effects of carbon dioxide. Supposedly the CO2 generated by industry and internal combustion engines (read cars) is forming some sort of greenhouse effect in the atmosphere and raising global teemperatures. But from what very little I know about it, there are a lot of questions I haven't heard asked, to say nothing of answered.

The first consideration is that CO2 is a VERY small part of the atmosphere: .02%; that's right, just two hundredths of one percent of the air we breathe is CO2. You could breathe hydrogen cyanide at that concentration and it wouldn't hurt you. I wonder how CO2 can have any effect at that dilution. and nobody has said that the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere has risen to anything greater than .02%.

The second thing is that CO2 isn't an inert gas. It reacts with other things and that reaction could be observed if and when it occurs. Specifically, CO2 has a part in photosynthesis: plants take in CO2 and water and form sugar for their metabolism, while exhaling oxygen. If the level of CO2 has risen, we should see plants growing more luxuriantly since more CO2 is available for photosynthesis and growth. And we should alse detect a greater percentage of oxygen in the atmosphere from the increased rate of photosynthesis. I havent heard that either of these has been observed.

One of the things that CO2 reacts with is water; it is soluble in water to a slight degree and forms carbonic acid. Those bubbles in your Coca Cola are CO2. the seas cover about 3/5ths of the earth's surface ; that's a lot of water exosed to whatever CO2 is around. I haven't heard that the seas are growing more acidic from exposure to CO2. And there are huge numbers of plant plankton in the sea that photosynthesize just as land plants do. They would contribute to an increase in oxygen, both in the sea and in the admosphere, but I haven't heard of that happening either.

And these plankton are the base of the ocanic food pyramid; if there are more of them for predators to feed on, there will be more of all the animals up the marine food pyramid. That means there should be more of the fish we catch for human consumption, but all I hear on this subject is that our fisheries are being overfished and are at the point of giving out.

Lots of questions, few answers from reliable soures. I hope this meets the Simian criteria: "Truly wanting to discuss global warming/climate change".

Collapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed by Jared Diamond has some really balanced info on this stuff.

His focus is more on how societies have reacted to various major changes in the past.

Basically, most societies attacked and killed each other long before they had a chance to freeze or bake or starve.

Of course that was before we had these spiffy forums to mesh these things out in. I'm sure WE won't make the same mistakes............

We could use a sophisticated heat beam, called a "laser" . . . .

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and what his trumpet saith

I'm with the Minnesotans for Global Warming crowd... "Set the flamingo free!"

(Here ya go: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJUFTm6cJXM )

Even a professional skeptic ,funded by the Koch bros., admits the science is valid.

http://news.yahoo.com/skeptic-finds-now-agrees-global-warming-real-142616605.html

So this guy says global warming is real but not proven to be "man made" so we should curb emissions just to be safe. No we shouldn't. Killing our economy just to prevent what they can't prove is happening doesn't cut it with me.
Why don't we just tax the sun instead? Or sue God for putting this chunk of dirt so close to the sun.

I really don't care if it warms up or gets colder...I'm still going to use incandescent bulbs, drive a 1970's or earlier vehicle, eat red meat and butter, shoot guns and wear my tinfoil hat.

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Lost it all in a boat accident

I have friends under two feet of October snow who will appreciate this... once their powder comes back on that is....

And if it gets too cold this winter I'll just stand on my roof and spray aresol cans at the sky above my house to let some heat in. My dad had a ton of older lightbulbs when he died so we'll use those for a long time. I have them hidden in the attic next to my guns and gas powered leaf blower because of the periodic sudden inspections from the jack booted energy police.
BTW, Ang. Make sure on your tin foil hat you keep the shiney part up. That's what i do.

Homo sapien number seven billion was born earlier today. I say it is just body heat warming the globe.

Climate change is real and it has been so since this rock we call Earth was formed - pre humans.

What this whole brouhaha is IMO, is a wedge issue used by the unscrupulous, fomenting the insipid and duping those that are subject to cognitive dissonance into a frenzy of emotion in order to gain power and money at the expense of us all.

Washington crossed a frozen Delaware river during a mini ice age - pre industrial revolution. Dinosaurs lived in an extreme heat period - pre humans.

Ice and rock cores going back 400,000 years support this.

And let's not forget... CO2 always FOLLOWS warming, it NEVER precedes it.

Let's wake up and stop this insanity.

The Romans were growing wine grapes in Scotland 2000 years ago and the standard summer uniform for the Union Army during the Civil War (War of Northern Aggression for our southern friends) was made of wool.

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AL
Pax Per Potens

Yeah, you're all right......and the earth is still flat.

Global Warming is a BS story, just like the Cold War. Get people worring about something other than what they need to worry about. Like how the government has been screwing us since WWII.

I thought it's been doing that since the 1830's...?

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Lost it all in a boat accident

I recall a news story years ago on how hot the Summer of 1991 was. The Winter of 1993-1994 was the coldest I can remember as an adult. Back in 1816 they had the Cold Summer of 1816-the Summer of 1816 and Froze to Death. Years later it was found to be due to a volcanic explosion in the Dutch East Indies. There's a lot of research still to be done.

That would have been Krakatoa.

"Even a professional skeptic ,funded by the Koch bros., "


Glad to see you're not a conspiracy theorist!

Edit: Sorry for any confusion, I was quoting roscoeguy......

Gee, I guess this means the evil Koch brothers just turned out to be a couple guys who funded a study and the scientist came up with his own conclusions. Imagine that! And if roscoguy thinks this guy was a "professional skeptic" whose conclusions we should ignore because the Koch brothers hired him, why should we put value on this scientist's opinions now? And doesn't this make pro man made global warming scientists "professional GW witch doctors"? Or is this mythology just a one way street?

I will buy into the "global warming" argument, AS SOON AS the climate smarties provide a logical explanation as to why the ice cap retreated from what is now North America to where it is today...............10,000 years ago. Back then there were no cars, factories, hair spray, coal fired power plants, incandescent light bulbs, or any other evil planet destroying human creations, just animal farts.

Until then, pound sand. What a crock of crack being spoon fed to the masses.

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NRA Certified Instructor

I have hope that one day, all children will be taught to read and reason. That all children will, one day, be able to discern what can be possible and what is total hogwash. That one day, all pontificators will be held up to ridicule and be held responsible for the trash they talk. One day....

Glad you enjoyed it, Drew, and hope your friends do, too!

I am in favor of everybody lightening up, and enjoying life. I like the joy, the good fun, in that video. Exemplified by the cavorting dogs.

I got no requirements everybody got to see AGW, or anything else, my way, and just don't want folks leaning on me to see it their way (especially if they have a hand in my hip pocket)!

Life's too short entirely to get stressed about what other folks choose to believe...

There is no "proof" that will convince everybody. He never says that global warming is "not proven to be "man made". Cutting back on consumption of fossil fuels isn't exactly "killing our economy". Our government has been telling us for years that we need to decrease our dependance on foreign fuel. Irreversibly damaging the atmosphere and/or environment just for the sake of short-term profits by oil companies will cause way more damaging, long-term effects than asking people to conserve energy.
No, it means that I was saying that this scientist was funded by the Kochs as opposed to any group of "tree-huggers". I never suggested or implied that his opinions should be ignored. I'm completely confused on your interpretation of my post. Would it have helped if I had said that he was a skeptical professional instead? If so, mea culpa.

P.S. - handejector, I apologize for my slip up re: the rules about copyrighted material. It won't happen again.

So True Arlo, So True...

Now if you'll excuse me I'm off to the hardware store to buy some more of those $15, poison filled, curly-Q light bulbs...

There is no doubt in my mind that the climate in my part of the world is warmer than it used to be. (But I also notice on the evening news that the record high temperatures for many individual days occurred in the 1930s.) And I do not doubt reports of a general warming.

I DO doubt that we greedy Americans and our SUVs are a major cause of warming. As said, we sure weren't affecting things some hundreds of years ago when a mild climate and long growing seasons made it possible for more people to get off the farm and eventually industrialize.

If you want to know the reason for all the "studies" promoting reductions in US production, you need look no further than the forum here on gun control. As often said, gun control isn't about guns, it is about control. Likewise limiting greenhouse gas emissions isn't about the greenhouse effect, it is about limitations.

Man adapts and exploits conditions to his favor quite well. Slightly warmer average temperatures might bring longer growing seasons. Warmer temperatures might result in more evaporation and precipitation (fresh water). With a growing human population, longer growing seasons and more fresh water might not necessarily be such a bad thing. Though, I guess it would be difficult to raise funds for the Global Fight Against More Food and Water. Please forget I mentioned it...

In the 1970's we had an impending ice age crisis. Today we have a global warming catastrophe headed our way. We seemed to have survived the ice age... keep hope alive.

I could not agree more...

I always allow myself to be pulled into the Area 51 of topics around here. Let's just call it the "P" word. But it's impossible to do with this subject so all I have to say is, "So, how 'bout those Cardinals, huh?!"

Thanks so much for making this very valid point. To be sure, there is room for debate about why our climate is changing, and the extent to which we humans might have contributed to it, but the fact that our climate is changing, for whatever reason, cannot be denied.

I am so sick and tired of scientific issues being morphed into political litmus tests.

Tripe. Perfectly well educated people are using reason and logic in order to understand that just because the earth's climate is variable and cyclical (there's a shocker for you!) does not mean that humans are the cause or the saviors. Like Wyatt, I just don't agree with doing irreparable damage to the global economies over CONCLUSIONS that are politically motivated.

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More grist for the mill: Express.co.uk - Home of the Daily and Sunday Express | Express Yourself :: Global warming is over, says expert-

This is very good: http://www.bishop-hill.net/blog/2011...ic-heresy.html