USAF AP/SP/SF's Photo Thread

[oldafsp]

Many of our members served in the Air Force and Smith and Wessons' relationship with the military is well known.

If you have photos of yourself or others at work with their
S&W sidearm, or pics of AF issued gear, please share them with us.

If you were an intruder on an Air Force Base, this is the last
thing you want to see.....

[Texas Star]

Good topic. I did that, but have no photos.

[S. Hammer]

I've posted these several time before. I put this rig together to make it as close to what I was issued in the early '80's.



Colt CAR 15 SP-1 with an elongated flash hider to look like the GAU-5A I carried at Grissom AFB. S&W Model 15-4 with target hammer and trigger. The badge is real, and the leather/web gear is accurate.

[gunblade]

I was a CATM instructor from 1983-2003. Carried the M15 until the M9 was adopted...same holster rig as in the photo.

[oldafsp]

Still trying to sort through alot of my old gear.

Wanting to do a display of sorts...good old memories from alot
of different places.

My wife found this in the bargin bin at a LGS last month, it is undergoing restoration right now...

[WC145]

Originally Posted by oldafsp

Many of our members served in the Air Force and Smith and Wessons' relationship with the military is well known.

If you have photos of yourself or others at work with their
S&W sidearm, or pics of AF issued gear, please share them with us.

If you were an intruder on an Air Force Base, this is the last
thing you want to see.....

How about that, I always assumed you were a guy.

I wish I had pics from back when I was an SP (early 80's). Alas, the only thing I have, other than paperwork, is my old function badge and a beret packed in a box somewhere.

I've seen that photo you posted before and always wondered about it. They show the dog handler with a S&W M15 but the patch on her beret is from well into the Beretta M9 era.

[sigp220.45]

I was an SP from 1983 to 1991 - Minot ND, Anderson GU, Bergstrom TX.

I may have some pictures buried somewhere - I'll see if I can dig them out.

As for the young lady above, I think dog handlers kept revolvers into the M9 era since they were easier to work with one hand. I don't know for sure.

[gunblade]

True about the beret...the SF patch came out mid to late 90s I think. We had to start wearing them in '97...no more red hats. After we got the M9s all the K9 troops I trained qualified with the M9 and the GAU (pre M4) or the standard M16/M16A2. We did keep some M15s around along with some blank ammo for training the dogs. I think they would let the dog go if they needed to draw their weapon.

[oldafsp]

I retired in 1997 out of the Reserves and the 15's were still around at some bases and special details.

1996 was when the Security Forces concept and name came to be. The berets got starting in SEA, late 1960's in Thailand under local commanders authority for the base defense forces and K-9's.

Service pistol evaluations started around 1981. Senior SP's from throughout the ranks were called on to evaluate the submitted canidates. I spent 6 months doing nothing else but
shooting every day..

If any of you ex Sky Cops get the chance, visit the museum at Lackland. I have been several times and I think that the displays about our work for all to see are wonderful.

The photo was from the Air Force museum gallery.

Gee, and I always thought I was a guy too.....lol.

Below: Original web gear swivel holster and dump pouches. Never issued. Used right up until 1997.

[pennlineman]

I was at Minot from 1984-89. This picture was taken at camp Ripley MN around 1986. My .38 was on my hip if you look close enough. The 15 is still my most shot S&W.

[DeadAye]

I was at DAFB checking in one cold rainy morning. One of the gate guards didn't show up and there was a long line of cars waiting to get in. So I was sitting in the shack waiting till the MP (?) could get to me and issue me a badge.
While I was waiting another MP with a dog showed up and the 3 of us were waiting on the guy outside when he stuck his head in and said - "Your girlfriend's here. Got a minute?"
The idiot tells the dog to stay and goes outside leaving me and the dog alone in the shack.
After a few minutes of talking to Bruno I got him to come to me and get a few pets.
(My dad raised German Shepard Dogs for police departments when I was a kid - BTW)
After a bit Bruno and I played Tug-of-War with my hand - Finger hooked behind his K9s and we were having a lot of FUN till his boss came back in and saw his growling Belgian Malinois pulling and shaking his head with my hand in it's mouth. The poor guy could see his USAF career ending in Leavenworth in his mind's eye.
When I told him we were just playing I though he was going to cry....

[oldafsp]

Dogs are much better judges of people.

They sense and detect aggresive body movement so well.

And I've seen some that were just pure man-eaters. Period.

If I was that handler, I would have crapped myself too!

[glenncal1]

Have any of the AF model 15's made it to the civilian market? would be fun to own one.

[oldafsp]

I have seen one or two on very rare occasions, crop up.

And these are roll stamped U.S.A.F. left side of the frame
above the trigger guard. They are bringing premimum prices many times well over 1K and better.

The best thing is that many of the AF 15's were not marked in this fashion. Getting a letter or a phone call to smith is the only way to tell.

They are out there, but it is a long time consuming search.

Some of the original K-38's issued to the SAC Elite Guard have appeared in recent years. 5 inch barrels in nickle with stag grips. These were direct shipped to SAC HQ at Offutt AFB per the orders of Gen Curtis LeMay in 1955.Later versions of the 15 were 4in in blue.



While my father was assigned to SAC HQ in the late 1950's this was the sight that made up my mind to join the AF and become one of
the Sky Cops...

[bobcat]

Oh my, I scanned this not long ago, can't believe how young I was. This was taken at Incirlik CDI, Turkey in 1976. The K-9 was my assigned dog Lad, he was a dog fighting, hand biting old battler when I got him, but a good dog. He only bit me once that I remember, I wearing the 15, and no, the blue sweatshirt was not authorized wear, my long sleeves must have been in the laundry. Fun topic for old 81150A's, take care...

[AirForceShooter]

Some of the original K-38's issued to the SAC Elite Guard have appeared in recent years. 5 inch barrels in nickle with stag grips. These were direct shipped to SAC HQ at Offutt AFB per the orders of Gen Curtis LeMay in 1955.Later versions of the 15 were 4in in blue.

I remember seeing those in Hawaii in 1967.
They were beautiful guns.

I tried to get one issued to me for my next tour in VN.
No luck with that.
Got a .44 Mag instead

AFS

[JamesArthur60]

I think I'd rather deal with the dog, than a female SP with a loaded gun pointed at me.

[JayCeeNC]

Originally Posted by JamesArthur60

I think I'd rather deal with the dog, than a female SP with a loaded gun pointed at me.

Darn right! The dog is MUCH more predictable...

[Texas Star]

Am I understanding one of the above posts that K-38's (M-14) with five-inch barrels were especially made for SAC?

A gun pictured above does look as if it might be one, with real stag.

I heard that those guns were Victory Models that armorers had nickled and that the grips were Franzite stag fakes. I have defnitely seen pics of Elite Guard troops wearing holsters that were for four-inch barrels. No way were those men carrying five-inch guns!

Does anyone know for sure the truth? Can you cite an authoritative source?

I carried mainly Victory Models, the Model 15's being reserved for senior NCO's and officers until enough were in stock. At the time, SAC and combat units in Vietnam had priority on new arms. We also had some .45 autos, and I often carried one. I wanted the added power and quicker reloading. I wore the .45 in a Jordan-style holster that I had made by a shoe repair shop at home, the owner of which made holsters as a sideline. I think I was the only guy in my flight (like a platoon in other branches of the military) who wore a .45.

We also had .45 autos in Newfoundland. Indeed, no .38's had made it up there. I had to show a couple of the men how to operate them. (I had been reading Jeff Cooper's articles on the .45 since I was 12, so no problem. )

We also had a few Colt Commando .38's and a few of the commercial Official Police Model. Alas, the Colts mostly didn't shoot to the sights. Much later, I had lunch with Col. Chas. Askins and he told me about ordering Colts for the Border Patrol when he was its chief firearms instructor. He had to turn the barrels of most to get them on target.

The only real K-38 that I ever saw in the USAF was the private weapon of one of the officers in my unit in Denver. It had the usual six-inch barrel. I think his holster was a Lawrence or Hunter. He bought the K-38 because he thought it'd help him make a better score when he qualified. Our other officer usually wore a hammer-shrouded Colt snub that was there for the investigators. I think he chose it because it was light, and he thought it was "cool."
That guy often reminded me of the southern end of a northbound horse. Being image conscious was so "him"...

Our unit in Denver was short of the weak M-41 .38 ammo, so one of the NCO's used unit funds to buy .38 Hi-Velocity ammo in a store off-base. I think that was .38-44 ammo. We never actually fired any, qualifying with target wadcutters. But I felt much better with the hot ammo in a .38 when I wore one. (I qualified with the .45 using normal 230 grain hardball, like I carried.

Oh: a couple of airmen who had previously been at Fairchild AFB, WA said they had two-inch .38's there, and that they were harder to qualify with. But I think those snubs, probably the M-56 in USAF terms (basically M-15 snubs sans the grooved sighting surfaces) were usually reserved for aircrew. But many aircrew carried the normal four-inch barrels.

[oldafsp]

[QUOTE=Am I understanding one of the above posts that K-38's (M-14) with five-inch barrels were especially made for SAC?


Does anyone know for sure the truth? Can you cite an authoritative source?

Texas Star...I am researching that as I go. Admittedly, there are many stories that get passed down through the years.

I have a good contact in the AF History Dept that has been trying to help. Many of the records of course have been been purged.

I was truly amazed at LeMay's power in the Air Force. I think the only ones that could call him on his decisions was the Chief of Staff (JCS).

Twice I had requested an assignment with Det. A (Elite Guard). In typical Air Force fashion, I was told my skills were needed elsewhere at the time.

Rumor has it that the first guns aqquired were purchased locally. I am checking into it.

[617X10]

I really wish I could find some pictures of the "Kill Box" at the front gate of Barksdale AFB. It was two lines past the guard shack with the actual words "Kill Box" written within. It was supposed to serve as a reminder of the limited effectiveness of the 9mm pistol on a vehicle that ran the gate. Somebody with a bird or a star must have complained, because it got removed after about 2 months. The only time I've ever been in handcuffs is because of some stupid piece of plastic not getting re-posted after an eye appointment. I can't figure out who's more at fault, the doctor for telling me he'd call to get it re-posted, or me for not making sure before I went beyond the point of no return. It sure made a lot of my co-workers happy though. Now that I can laugh about it, I think it was pretty funny too. They put the arrest report on the bulletin board behind glass for a month. Good times.

[Texas Star]

[QUOTE=oldafsp;136220221][QUOTE=Am I understanding one of the above posts that K-38's (M-14) with five-inch barrels were especially made for SAC?


Does anyone know for sure the truth? Can you cite an authoritative source?

Texas Star...I am researching that as I go. Admittedly, there are many stories that get passed down through the years.

I have a good contact in the AF History Dept that has been trying to help. Many of the records of course have been been purged.

I was truly amazed at LeMay's power in the Air Force. I think the only ones that could call him on his decisions was the Chief of Staff (JCS).

Twice I had requested an assignment with Det. A (Elite Guard). In typical Air Force fashion, I was told my skills were needed elsewhere at the time.

Rumor has it that the first guns aqquired were purchased locally. I am checking into it.[/QUOTE]




Please keep us posted. Interesting subject!

I do know that LeMay possessed tremendous power. And he did want to improve the marksmanship of USAF personnel. I heard that he was responsible for getting the AR-15 to replace the old .30 carbine. That was certainly a step in the right direction!

He came to power during the WW II Pacific campaign, where he later had all but the tail guns removed from B-29's because he was afraid that the gunners would shoot their own formation's aircraft or escorting fighters! Had I been on a B-29 crew, that would have made me uneasy.

He was an aggresive man with a flair for showmanship. He was rumored to deliberately run a gate to see if he'd be shot at. I worried that he or some other officer trying to be flamboyant might do that. I'd probably have fired at him and just hoped the chips landed well for me. I think that actual Soviet penetrators would have been more subtle.

Did any of you guys who worked at sensitive checkpoints ever see people trying to get in with a picture of the wrong person (or a dog!) on their ID passes? I worked often as access controller at both the Nuclear Weapons School and the Air Intelligence School, and we were warned to be wary of such security tests.

[oldafsp]

So funny you mention the dog picture....lol

I spent 2 years on the SP IG staff (1980-1982). Although we were concerned with all facets of the SP mission, specials security was always a numero uno priority.

You never knew when we would show up. We even had some E-3's go in on TDY orders for 90 days to evaluate procedures.

I don't know if they now go as far as we did when the Cold War was still a very real threat.

Most all of the people I met knew their jobs and had personal recognition down very well.

I can honestly say I am proud of my fellow SP's.