I just learned about this and wonder how many others here can remember the incident.

U.S. News - 27 years after NYC subway shooting, Goetz victim dies

The punk was shot during a subway robbery, then spent 25 yrs in prison on a rape conviction.

He dies 27 yrs to the day of his shooting of a drug overdose.

Yeep, a real life winner.

I see the media call this loser a Bernie Goetz "victim." You can't beat the NYC mindset, I guess.

I hate what happened to poor Goetz, who was just protecting himself and fellow passengers.

At least, this worthy won't menace anyone else now, ever.

It is sad that some 27 yrs later, most people still cannot protect themselves in NYC. If you are a wealthy person and know the right people, I bet you can get a permit. However, those are not the people that ride the subway, well...I do not think so anyway

Under the current mayor there (that creep Bloomberg), even William F. Buckley, Jr. had to lose his pistol permit. I think the news story said that he had three handguns.

Being a celebrity won't always get you a permit in that awful place. I'd hate to have to live there. I think it violates basic American freedoms.

I have been there. It may be ok if one was born and raised there since they do not know any other life. You and I know what it is like to be able to have guns without registering, carry permits and such. All that is foreign to those in NYC. The lady that cuts my hair is from NYC and says she will never go back there, even to visit, after living here for a few month.

If one reads the Wikipedia account of Goetz, they will see how bad it was or is in NYC. When 20% of the people are willing to pay for private security, there is a problem.

Goetz was stupid. He should have thrown the gun into the East River and kept his mouth shut.

We agree on stupid but the other???

Nah... Too many people saw him that could describe him. He had prints on the car that would have came back to him.

The case certainly divided the population as to guilt or innocence.

I do not think his actions were justified but I was not there. Both he and those he shot agree on what was said and done. Maybe he was genuinely afraid of being beaten again, He was doing the same thing millions of people do each day and that is carry a gun for protection but with that carry comes responsibilty and then accountability.

If he felt he was in the right, he would have remained at the scene. Instead he ran.

Poetic justice.

"If he felt he was in the right, he would have remained at the scene. Instead he ran."

Don't forget, he was facing an automatic year in jail just for having the means to protect himself in that hellhole... er, I mean, fine metropolis.

So, whether he was right to defend himself or not, he was already screwed if he stayed at the scene of the shooting.

It's not like this occurred in a free state where self-defense against 4 criminals armed with sharpened screwdrivers is considered reasonable.

My best suggestion to Goetz would have been to move to someplace better, before any of this happened.

John

You have to show a need to get a licensed handgun permit in NYC. People who carry large amounts of valuables (diamond dealers)or cash are most likely to eventually get one. Back in Bernie's day crime was rampant and getting mugged on the subway was a common thing. The NYC Transit Police Dept. and the NYC Housing Police Dept. were looked down upon and considered more like redheaded step-children than the fair haired NYPD. In my day falling asleep on the subway after a few too many was not as dangerous however I woke up at the other end of my subway line many times, once minus my shoes.

O'l Bernhard should have been given the key to the city for what he did, instead of hard time at Rikers Island.

I recall seeing TV news showing videos of Goetz talking to the police in New Hampshire. The first grand jury refused to indict, Morgenthau had to empanel a second one to secure an indictment, IIRC Goetz was conicted only on the weapons charges.

Goetz got my vote as "Handgunner Of The Year" for 1984. I forgot who won it though. Mabe John Taffin. Some of those guys he ventilated had sharpened screwdrivers on them when found. But some folks said Goetz didn't know that and so was in the wrong. You see, in NYC young thugs, I mean..uh hmm, wholesome kids like those guys, always carry sharpened screwdrivers around. They have no ill intent. I love that in spite of his unapolagetic attitude the jury let him off for the actual shooting.
Public union NYC garbage men who make over a hundred grand a year, probably, just got a little help cleaning the streets of their fine city on that day in 1984. And it must be noted here that Bernard Goetz, fine upstanding american citizen in my mind used a S&W model 36. He should join this forum!

and he should have won too.

Anytime Ol Bernhard wishes to join the forum, I'll pay his dues for the first year.

There was a description of the shooter, but how many people in NYC would fit the description. Second; his prints were in the subway car. So what. You can't determine when a print was placed, and you can't determine where the subway car was when the print was placed. Since Goetz rode the subway every day, you would expect to find his prints in more than a few subway cars. How many other prints were found in the car where the shooting occurred?

I repeat; if Goetz was smart he would have disposed of the gun and any other related evidence and then kept his mouth shut. If a NYPD detective had questioned him, all he would have had to say was, "I wasn't involved, and I don't know anything."

And they referred to Goetz as the "subway gunman." Wouldn't a subway gunman be someone whose intent it was to get onto the subway with a gun and shoot innocent people???!!! I prefer to think of Goetz as an "undocumented CCW permit holder." (Hey, if PC gobble-dee-goop works for the "other side," why not for us, too?!)

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LEO since 1981.

Visible weapons or not, if 4 guys accosted me, I'd be in fear for my life. Even if one guy accosted me I'd be in fear for my life. In fairy tale land, an "unarmed" person cannot kill someone else. Besides, what are the chances that a street thug is unarmed?

Does anyone remember what he said before he opened fire on the 4 muggers?

John

"He [one of the muggers] testified that he was three or four feet away from Goetz when he asked him, 'Mister can I have five dollars?' Goetz responded, 'You can all have it!' "

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LEO since 1981.

Few months after the incident an NYC cop buddy of mine sent me a 2" round patch with the caricature of Goetz holding a handgun in the center, and printed around the border... "Have Gun...Will Commute".

I think someone on the PD had it embroidered and was selling them. I'm sure I have it someplace.

Typical police graveyard humor.

The one account I read quoted him as saying to one of his assailants on the floor of the subway car:
"You don't look so bad! Here-have another!"

Remember it well.

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otis

Collect fingerprints from a subway car? Seriously? Thousands of people a day pass through those cars, good luck finding anything intact, especially with 1980's technology. Bernie could have ditched the gun and disappeared. It would have taken one hell of an eyewitness to nail him, which I am pretty much convinced does not exist in the NYC subway.

While it was BS he did any time at all, Mr. Goetz was an honered guest of the New York City Department of Correction. My dad was a CO and remembers when he was in Rikers. He worked in the radio shop by day and spent the night in protective custody. Bernie's bit of time wasn't that bad, but nonetheless undeserved.

I think his name was Troy Canty, that name seems to stick out. One of the lawyers for the turds was the infamous William Kunstler, along with his boytoy Ron Kuby

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Sure you did

Remember when it happened. Goetz sounds like a fine man. Good that he was armed when the four criminals sought to rob him. As far as the subsequent civil judgment... don't blame him one bit for declaring bankruptcy.

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<><

I remembered it as him using a Charter Arms Bulldog in 44 special. I had one and saw it referred to in print in the past as the "Goetz Gun".

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Front sight and squeeze

They said Ramseur, 45, checked into the motel Tuesday and was scheduled to check out Thursday morning. He was freed from prison last year after serving 25 years for a rape, according to NBCNewYork.com.


Better shot placement would have not only prevented a rape...but it would have freed up a motel room...

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Thirty characters. Exactly...

David Berkowitz aka Son of Sam used the Charter .44, Goetz used a 38 special.

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Sure you did