Therein is the problem. Common sense is really uncommon these days with all those in power trying to be politicially corect.

Yeah, I think that's where all the 'zero tolerance' laws come from. It's just so much easier to administrate than to actually stop and think about the situation first. That thinking part can give a fella a headache...

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"... shall not be infringed."

I don't feel that the officer should have to jeopardize his job or possible disciplinary action due to someone elses ignorance of local gun laws.

If you're mature enough to own a gun, you should have the intelligence to check applicable laws before traveling with it.

Just ask Plaxico Burress how that works....

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'Merica!

"Sorry, but I'm afraid it is incumbent upon the gunowner to know the laws of his destination."
The Boss


....and then keep his arse and money outta' places that disrespect his civil rights.

GF

I actually meant that as a general comment across the board. Someone earlier mentioned having a 12 year old in the front seat and cross the state line where the other state had a law against it. This is what I meant, instead of ticketing them, explain the law, warn them, fix the situation, and move on.

Yes, you are right about being mature enough to own a gun and learning the laws where you are going. I look them up before I travel and so should any gun owner. But... in this case, the girl went up to the officer in good faith, trying to make sure she was ok, and then they toss her in jail and is threatened with 3 years in prison... for trying to do the right thing and asking an officer for help. That's not right. That officer should have given assistance, not cuffs. If that threatens his own job, then there is something wrong. His safety wasn't threatened at all; no bad guy comes up and asks for assistance with what to do about his gun. That's laughable to claim the officer was threatened. If she meant him harm, she would have just shot him in the back. She walked up and asked for help.

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"... shall not be infringed."

The second scenario actually happened in England. Guy found a shotgun in his yard. Apparently a bad guy dumped it there. So he picked it up and took it down to the police station to turn in. He's now doing time for unregistered possession of a firearm.

But I really don't understand your first question.

You are going somewhere that it is illegal for you to carry a pistol. The White House. A voting booth. The secure area of the airport. A military base. The State of New York. The State of New Jersey.

Why did you bring the gun? It's illegal to have it there. If they catch you with it they will arrest you. But you brought it anyway, and think that just because you brought it to a place where you cannot, by law, have it, you should be allowed to have it?

How about going to Niagara Falls. A good part of that is in Canada. But, hey, you've had your gun with you since you drove up from Tennessee, so you should be able to just drive into Canada with it, right? No. You can't. They will arrest you.

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I always take precautions

blind but she is also wise.

I completely agree that the woman violated the law and it is her fault and can only blame her own stupidity for getting herself in the fix but if our criminal justice system works correctly she should not be punished to the full extent of the law.

Things like intent and effect come into play in cases.

Your perogative for sure, 50 million other people disagreed and visited last year.

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Sure you did

About the cops giving the violators a warning, having them correct it, and move on:

About ten years ago, that might have been more common for ANY violation. However, we live in times of reduced budgets et.al. Citations are more these days about generating revenue for the jurisdictions involved than anything else. I'd bet that a lot of agencies tell their officers unofficially "write them for anything you can find..." and especially if the people pulled over aren't from the area. As far as the situation with firearms, IMHO a lot of these states with these various laws on firearms such as being discussed here do this to DISCOURAGE people travelling to their respective areas with them re gardless of the reason. Tell me, how much $ is the State Of NY going to ultimately get out of the people that were arrested ? Probably not much, but every little bit is more than they had. To me, a lot of this kind of action reeks of a racket.

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The Last Standing Knight

Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, so this opinion is worth exactly what you paid for it.

(Note: numbers in the following sentence correspond to your question numbers.) The way I read it, 1) "firearm" would, indeed, apply to long guns; 2) & 4) you are only required to have either the ammo or the firearm(s) locked separately--not both; 3) a revolver would also be a "firearm".

I feel that this is the absolute minimum to be legal (by the book). Having said that, I tend to be a belt and suspenders guy when it comes to stuff like this. I would try to flaunt as few local laws as I could because a FOPA defense doesn't seem to have a lot of case law behind it, and it would appear that some jurisdictions are seeing how far they can push the boundary. As mentioned above, some states don't even allow you to use FOPA until after you've been arrested.

What you really want is folks from the areas you're travelling through to give you more local tips.

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Where's my dad's America?

I wasn't aware he was appealing. Thanks for the update.

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Where's my dad's America?

I agree some gun owners specific federal legislation is probably in order. The main argument of the Civil Rights Movement of the 1950s and 1960s is that certain rights are fundamental to the INDIVIDUAL and do not depend upon GEOGRAPHY.

Why would anyone want to go to "New York City" in the first place? If you already live there, ESCAPE! Defect to America.

Well, they do have a Dinosaur Barbecue...awarded "Best Barbecue" in the United States.

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'Merica!

What you don't understand is that the policeman MUST arrest in a felony situation; it's not a traffic violation. Like it or not, the cop is there to enforce the laws as written. There is usually no discretion in a felony caper, period. Deciding who goes to jail or not can be dangerous to your pension. The District Attorney, not the police, decide who is charged. Again, there's a certain element of responsibility here; to put it charitably, the person with the weapon was stupid. How about just walking back and quietly putting the gun in the car trunk after noticing the sign? How about not stopping AT ALL in NYC? How about reading the laws pertaining to carry in the states you're passing through? As usual, people want to blame the coppers for enforcing a law someone doesn't care for or thinks is "wrong". The Sullivan Act has been around since 1911. It's not like it went on the books last year.
As far as the safety issue goes, any time someone is around me that I don't know, carrying a loaded weapon, it's a safety issue. Please don't take my comments as anti-gun or read them out of context; it's the nature of the job. It's totally different making a traffic stop on a citizen with a legally possessed weapon than someone walking up to me and admitting that she's carrying a handgun. NYC (or any big city) is a completely different animal than working other jurisdictions. Not more dangerous, just different-in mindset, outlook and the perception of what is a threat and what isn't. Obviously, your knowledge of police work and what is considered dangerous is lacking. Again, it's not the cop's fault that the person carrying a loaded weapon in NYC without a permit was ill-informed and yes, stupid.
Bob

Alpo is correct. While taking my NY CCW class, this exact scenaro was discussed. And the instructor, (who by the way is a retired NYCPD) said, The FOPA law covers this situation.
I am very interested in seeing the outcome from this and if the Federal Law will be enforced.

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29,66,686, M&P.357sig,40c

I live in Indiana and would'nt go to New York City if it was the "Last Vacation Destination" on the face of the earth. It's not good that this is happening to people who have no intention of breaking the law but Ignorance of the law is no excuse. I'll keep heading out west with my guns, and "Money". The Heck with the Northeast....

Better stay out of South Carolina too, since they don't recognize your license. And when you're out west watch out in NM, NE, KS, WA,OR, CA and NV.

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Sure you did

You know, I like NYC...great food, neat tourist attractions; hot chicks. Coppers (and FDNY) are friendly, too. Crime is at an all-time low in NY; it's a great place to visit. My MO, wherever I visit, is to "stay under the radar". I'll continue to drop by now and then.
Bob

First, as said, I agree that she should have checked the pertinent laws PRIOR to traveling to another city much less another state with a gun. I wouldn't leave the house with my CCW (legal and permit) prior to checking.

But, here's the problem with cop logic. You are thinking tactically, not strategically. I understand, you are forged to think that way. The lady approaches in GOOD FAITH to DO THE RIGHT THING and expected ASSISTANCE. Your logic is to give her cuffs, a booking photo, and a felony arrest record and then to let the DA sort it out. I understand perfectly well where you come from. I did my full twenty in the military and know very well where you are coming from and fully agree with your logic from your point of view and based on how you are trained.

So, here is the problem. You just won a tiny, micro sized battle and congratulated yourself. You lost a major war and didn't even realize it. You just guaranteed in one swoop that every other citizen who hears of this case is 100% guaranteed to NOT go to a cop and NOT do the RIGHT THING. The millions of people who by now have heard of this story over the internet, etc. are now absolutely not going to ask a cop for assistance if they are wondering about a firearm they have. If somebody finds a gun in the bushes, they will either keep it or toss it, but they will NOT notify the authorities (who might be looking for that particular gun to solve a crime). They will not ask a cop for help. Sad.

So, win a single battle, lose the entire war. Lose the assistance of the public. Lose any lingering respect for the concept of going to an Officer for assistance.

Problem is, most people are more worried about CYA and their pension than anything else, so they stopped doing the right thing.

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"... shall not be infringed."

That's about as well stated as any response could have been.

The woman from TN was committing an illegal act in NYC. It was obvious that she had no evil intent, but she is likely to get sledgehammered for it.

What is happening here is wrong. Just plain wrong, but legal. Seems like the concepts of "legal" and "just plain wrong" should be mutually exclusive, not walking hand in hand.

Sorry, but you again missed the point. My job isn't to interpret the law as I like or want it to be; it's to enforce it. Since you were in the military, you know about obeying orders; some you may or may not agree with. A felony violation MUST be dealt with by an arrest; if you don't like it, join the fire department. That IS the right thing; it's called your job. As far as the safety issue goes, yes, I'm thinking tactically. Tactics and officer safety overrule most any other consideration. The courts have ruled in the affirmative on that. I know of two cops that have been killed within the last month; one in rural NC, one in NYC. Both were shot by suspects who walked up on them with weapons. You shouldn't let your distaste of NYC gun laws, which I also have, influence your ability to analyze a situation critically. The weapon-carrying people screwed up and will pay the price. That's the system. Sometimes you can't fix stupid.
Bob

I was only making a point that there should be in place a system where a traveler to NYC can turn in any firearms during their visit and pick it up when they leave.

Awarded by whom? Heck, folks can't even agree on what proper 'que is within NC. That's without even bringing in the Texas boys, KC style, Memphis style, or any of the other nuances (such as mustard sauce).

Seriously, I'll have to look into this if I'm ever up that way again.

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Where's my dad's America?

Another "Bash NYC-NY" thread, huh? Judging by some of the remarkably off topic comments disparaging allot of good people who are gun owners, gun rights activists and Second Amendment supporters, who happen by choice or circumstance to live in one place or another, is a cheap shot.


Lefty

Occupy Wall Street bus them in. It's given a big boost to the NYC Tourism Bureau numbers.

Heads of state and their entourages love visiting NYC. Rumor has it that Kadafi won't be making the trip any longer and Chavez hasn't been feeling well lately, but Ahmadinejad is supposed to be writing another jimdandy speech for NYC students at Columbia University. However, all these guys enjoy immunity for violating gun laws...

All that said, those who can't follow guns laws where they visit should stay home or expect trouble. Blaming those those who enforce the laws that you break isn't the solution, whether in NYC or elsewhere.

Thank you Lefty. I for one am getting REAL tired of hearing from folks who probably never set foot anywhere in NY, did so 30 years ago, or heard from Auntie Em how bad the subways were.
I love the ones who bash NY yet cannot carry in a dozen or more other states because their CCL is not recognized there either. You never hear about that though. Gonna spend you money there too?
Btw, the cops in NY are the best anywhere, hands down.
Rant off...........for now.
You wanna continue? Bring it.

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Sure you did

+1, Mike. Gotta love the NYPD-and NYC. My rant regards people who don't have a clue regarding police work, telling us that cops should break the rules (and the law) because "it's the right thing to do". If you don't like NYC and the way they run their city, stay home in Podunk and watch the cattle graze.
Bob

I'm with ya, Mike, NY has lots of great areas, and it's not just all city either. My in-laws have a nice little farm in Syracuse. Though, the ones who need convincing that NY is a great place are the ones who live there.... they keep moving down here.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

I have to disagree.
Note the law reads:
"and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle."

As I recall, in Illinois, possession of ammo without an Illinois FOID card is a violation, even with no gun.

Lock BOTH guns and ammo in separate containers.

This is an interesting thread.
A federal law guarantees a right, but The U.S. Court of Appeals for the Third Circuit rules it did not apply.
Hmmmm, why am I not surprised?

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Regards,
Lee Jarrett

Phil,

That photo could have been taken anywhere within a 5-10 minute drive from my house.

But, I'd have to say that that picture was probably not taken in Syracuse. It could have been taken somewhere in Onondaga County though...the County that Syracuse is in. Judging from the hills, I'm guessing possibly slightly south or southwest of Syracuse....South Onondaga, LaFayette, Marcellus, Camillus perhaps? If not there, my next guess would be east...Fabius/Pompey, or Cazenovia area maybe?

Regardless, that is a beautiful photo and hopefully will show some of the people here that New York State is not all "concrete jungle".

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'Merica!

Thanks.

You obviously know the area. It's actually in Camillus. I just say Syracuse so folks have an idea where I'm talking about.

Yeah, a lot of folks think of only skyscrapers and narrow streets. When I was in trucking a lot of drivers would freak out if they were dispatched to NY.

With a couple of different non resident permits, it opens up a few states, but not NY. But as I said before a New York resident with a NY carry permit/ license can get a PA non resident LTCF and carry here.

I used to spend quite a bit of time around Addison and lived in Bath for a short spell. It is beautiful ground and great deer hunting, but the property taxes could bankrupt a person. I will not return because of the gun laws.

"A Son"...whose Son? I call B.S. on this one.

When you retire "honorably" after 20 or more years of service, you are given an opportunity before you "put in your papers" to apply and receive a NYC Carry Permit. The process is seamless and is very quickly completed. It does not take months, just a few days or so. This process has been in place for many decades to protect retiring officers and their family's from any potential retribution from criminals whom they have arrested during their careers. The NYPD police unions would not tolerate any less.

If your "Son" (or whomever Son this fellow is) was retiring to another state, he would have had the opportunity to lawfully transfer his weapons through a licensed federal firearms dealer to the state he was retiring to before he was retired. Firearms owned by retiring members of the force/department which are not authorized by a lawful permit or license are secured and stored by the Property Clerk, not left in their personal locker. Some guys, though few, do not excercise the privilege, which is their perogative. The weapons would remain in the Property Clerks possession until a lawful transfer could take place by presentation of a valid permit or lawful transfer by a duly licensed NYS State firearms dealer with a valid FFL. You may conclude that the NYPD treats their retirees badly based upon a B.S. story someone convinced you to believe. If your "Son" had some sort of problem before he retired, that might be the only exception. Otherwise, it's complete nonsense and you just joined the "let's bash NY bandwagon."

Lefty

Don't return, do as you please.

South Carolina does not recognize my license nor most other state licenses, and no non-resident licenses. Doesn't stop me from going there, I like Myrtle Beach and Charleston areas. I even spend money in SC, though they won't allow me to carry. I just leave my guns home, actually pretty simple. Last 3 years I've driven all the way to Orlando and left my guns home every time.

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Sure you did

Lee,

I have to agree with you. I skipped straight to the part for vehicles with no separate passenger compartment, which contradicts the part you quoted. Gotta love it. This is why Caj is so rich.

Thanks for setting me straight.

Herk

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Where's my dad's America?

Mike/Lefty/OIF2/anybody else,

Please quote one thing I said that qualifies as bashing.

BTW, if any of you want to help the guy who asked about transiting NY with a long gun and a revolver, that would be very nice of you.

Cheers,
Herk

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Where's my dad's America?

Yes, or as we New Yorkers like to say...

"Don't let the door hit you in the *** on the way out!"

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'Merica!

Good note to end this thread on.