Here are two more reasons to not visit and spend money in NYC.

A better NYC gun policy—Editorial - NYPOST.com

We need a federal law that protects the rights of legal gun owners when they travel.

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Not All Who Wander Are Lost

Ive heard enough horror stories that I wouldn't go there even though I'm LE. Sounds worse than Mexico. Hope I'm wrong.

We have one.
Transporting is no problem.
However, if your destination is NYC, then possession is the problem.
Sorry, but I'm afraid it is incumbent upon the gunowner to know the laws of his destination.
The pic below is the relevant code from the ATF Regs, page 25.

Attached Images

IMG_9775.jpg (94.3 KB, 128 views)

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Regards,
Lee Jarrett

That is totally stupid.

If I'm reading that correctly, the writer wants these people to be released because "it is legal where they come from".

That don't work.

Year and a half ago I took my daughter's nephew with me, to Georgia, to visit her. Put him in the front seat of the Bronco, and away we went. As soon as we crossed the Florida/Alabama line, I broke the law. In Alabama kids under, I think it's twelve, can't be in the front seat. Period. So if I'd gotten stopped and ticketed, "It's legal in Florida" probably would not have worked real good.

Back in '80 my brother go pulled, while riding his motorcycle. He showed the cop his Texas plates and his Texas license, and said, "In Texas you don't need a helmet". Cop said, "You ain't in Texas", and wrote him a ticket.

If I try to wear my gun on the airplane, or walk into the White House with my gun, should I be arrested? Yes I should. Why. 'Cause it's against the law. Are they stupid laws? Yes. Should they be repealed? Yes. That don't change the fact that, right now, it's against the law.

It's been illegal to carry a pistol in New York City for about 70 years - maybe more. Anybody that says they did not know it was illegal are either lying or stupid.

So, is the Sullivan Act wrong? Yes. It is unConstitutional? Yes. Should it be repealed? Yes. Should they be let go for breaking New York law? No.

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I always take precautions

"When in Rome, do as the Romans do".

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Dick

We don't have 50 united states, we have 50 different countries. What's next, showing ID to enter each state (country)?

Marriage and Driving License are good in all fifty states.

ID? We don't need no stinking ID!

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Misty

Be careful what you wish for. I believe that in a perfect world, what you say is true. We don't live in a perfect world. I am from Georgia. We have some of the least restrictive gun laws in the Nation. Chances are near 100% that any Federal reciprocity law would make our laws more, not less, restrictive.

I am also a strong believer in the concept of Federalisim. Under that concept, many things are left (rightfully) to each individual state. If, for instance, Massachusetts wants to allow gay marriage, then that's fine by me. I would strenuously object to any such legislation in Georgia.

I think the Federal Government should absolutely stay out of Georgia's business when it comes to handgun licensing. As handejector pointed out, there is already a Federal Law that covers transport of weapons. That is enough.

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Georgia On My Mind

True to a point. The issue I have is if somebody is transiting NYC (or similar anti-gun jurisdiction) and has to layover for unforseen circumstances (flight got cancelled/car broke down/etc.) At that point, you are a criminal even though NYC was NOT your intended destination. (I'm talking strictly possession.)

FOPA only protects you if you're passing through, which does not include overnight. It allows for brief stops (such as gas), but not much more. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.

Herk

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Where's my dad's America?

Unless one of the NY tourists is "The Most Interesting Man in the World". When in Rome, the Romans do as he does!

Uh yea....that's the way our framers intended it. We were originally supposed to be a weak central government. The States are the heart of the country. And I'm good with it.
I'm with the monkey on this one. Know the laws. You CAN'T possess in New York. Period.
Ditto with Chicago. Don't like it-don't go there. Easy. Wanna push our laws on New York, ie it's legal where we live, yada yada yada. Then be prepared for a push back by Bloomberg like he's trying to do now with his stings and law suits. When in Rome..... just like when in Louisiana ...or Texas.... or Wyoming....

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Forum consigliere

On the other hand a New Yorker with a resident carry license can get a non resident PA LTCF and carry in PA and hog up the lanes at the range. Wish I could carry in NY.

i think its the responsibility of the permit holder to check the laws of the state(or country) he or she is going to,to easy to get in trouble nowadays, what with all the weirdness going on. not to mention the crazys in charge

You take your gun with you to jury duty?

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I’m your Boogie Man, uh huh.

Yeah, you and about 8 million others who live in NYC.

......moon

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NRA Life Member

Of course, all court houses here must provide a lock box.

Until that happens I won't step foot in it.

All my life I had wanted to go to Rome. I always dreamed about the beautiful sights to see and places to visit. So one year when we planned to travel to see the in-laws I suggested that we also visit Rome. The wife didn't seem as thrilled about visiting Rome as I expected, but she said she'd go if I wanted to. After a couple days at the in-laws we packed up and headed to Rome. I'm here to tell y'all it's nothing like what's advertised. After 30 minutes driving around Rome I was so disappointed that we drove back to the in-laws.

I just don't bring a gun when visiting the in-laws in Syracuse. I figure if I can survive a week with in-laws then I can handle about anything in NY.

Exactly....my point.

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I’m your Boogie Man, uh huh.

What is that point? That you are for more gun control laws?

Alpo, the problem that arises is when there is an unplanned layover on a National Airline. That person who declared a firearm in his checked baggage was on a flight that was DIVERTED to a New York airport. IIRC he was supposed to do his changeover in Newark, not Laguardia. However, as soon as he landed in Laguardia he was in violation of NYC law and the Federal Transport Provision did not provide any protection. Planes get diverted to alternate destination any time there is a weather event and it's pretty hard to convince the pilot that he can't land in New York because you have a firearm in your checked baggage and you'll be arrested there. Take a look at what happens anytime a big storm starts rolling out of the Gulf of Mexico, planes get diverted all over the country. You could be flying from Florida to Texas on a hunting trip and end up in New York.

Common sense dictates that New York should provide either an exemption for these cases or some method of Secure Transfer for people caught up in these situations but they don't do either, they arrest the unfortunate and charge them with a Felony that carries a 3 1/2 year MINIMUM prison sentence. Think about that next time your thinking about flying somewhere with a rifle or pistol. Personally, I don't care how long the trip is, I WILL NOT fly with a firearm in the US. NOT ANYWHERE. Because there is a risk that I could end up in New York. I also won't take a firearm into or through New York for any reason. If I have to drive through that state I'll ship the gun to my destination, simply stopping for gas in New York is enough to null the Federal Firearms transport exemption.

Simple fact is that I do NOT consider New York as part of the USA. New Yorkers tend to think the same way, especially in the City. IMO, it's best to consider it a remnant of the Soviet Union and treat it as such.

About the only good news in this whole mess is that it seem that the NYC papers are finally waking up to just how rediculous some of their laws are and how foolish it is to have put a Goose Stepping anti gun DA into power. Hopefully, it'll also create a backlash in the Senate and we'll see some legislation put in place that provides some measure of protection for people who are innocent of any real crime. While National Reciprocity would be nice, IMO that particular act doesn't stand a chance of getting signed by either Obama or Romney. However, it is possible that we might see some teeth put into the Federal Transport Exemption and some additional safeguards put in place for innocent travelers diverted to a New York airport. Now, if New York doesn't like, or recognize those new expemptions, there is a very easy fix, simply have the FAA de-certify every single New York Airport. As dependent as that City is on visitors, they'll cave very quickly.

With respect, except for the above, y'all are missing the point. This is an editorial in a NEW YORK NEWSPAPER, urging common sense regarding legally carried firearms in NEW YORK CITY. I'm a recovering New Yorker, and this is really huge news...

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I used to be disgusted..

Scooter, you're comparing apples to oranges.

The guy that was diverted to NYC, and then arrested when he declared his gun. I believe that is a case of NYC ignoring Federal law. I believe that the FOPA covered him. I have heard, however, that if you were driving through NYC, and were in a car accident, and the NYPD found a gun in your car, they would arrest you - FOPA be damned.

BUT - the woman from Tennessee that drove to New York to see the memorial is NOT covered by FOPA, as you have be going from where you're legal to where you're legal, and she was going from where she was legal (Tennessee) to where she WASN'T legal (New York).

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I always take precautions

OK, show me where the statute says that.
??
If you are taking a 2000 mile trip, I think anyone would expect you to have to stop. Keep the container locked, as the law prescribes, and you could beat the rap.
If you're sitting in a motel room with a locked case, who would know? I travel with cases that do NOT look like gun cases......

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Regards,
Lee Jarrett

Yeah... in a perfect world the Feds would come to Georgia and Tennessee and throw legislators in prison for violating our 2A rights with licensing schemes and countless other infringements. For NY legislators, the electric chair.

You're making the same mistake that the guy traveling to Allentown, PA did. He missed his connection at Newark airport. Picked up his luggage, with secured firearm inside and stayed at a nearby hotel. Next morning when he declared the firearm for the flight to Allentown he was arrested. The justification the cops and DA used was that he had the key. Therefor he had access.

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Pete.

This reminds me of the "Zero Tolerance Policy" enacted in many of our schools. Kids were being suspended for bringing in a small Boy Scout knife, or giving aspirin to a friend who was having a headache. How simple life is when we have a law with no exceptions, no discretion, no common sense. What this women did was wrong and there needs to be a penalty. But jail time? If you feel jail time is appropriate, ask yourself: If this was my wife, or daughter, or sister, would I feel the same way. How easy it is to be critical of a stranger. How difficult when they are friends or relatives.

Yep, if that was my wife or daughter, I'd be upset. I'd be getting a lawyer and fighting it, and taking it to the Supreme Court, if I could, to get the law overturned.

But - you don't let someone off for breaking a law, and leave the law in place. If what they did was not bad, so they need to be let off, then the law is bad and needs to go away.

But as long as the law is in place, no matter how lousy a law it is, you are supposed to enforce it.

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I always take precautions

There are parts of this country where it no longer feels like the United States, and NY is one of them. When I was a little kid I spent about 5 years living in upstate NY, just long enough to acquire some NY accent. (Shed long since.) When I was 9 my father transferred up to the northern prairies and that was that. I haven't been back there since 1960--and I thank God for it.

I'm always amused when I see a NY license plate out here in tourist season. In NY everyone wants to run your life; out here no one gives a rip what you do as long as you don't scare the horses.

Patrick Henry had it right.

Don't spend your money in those places such as NYC and Chicago PERIOD.

I also have a suggestion:

We should starting digging up New York City including the UN and hand that out that, and only that as our ONLY contribution of FOREIGN AID to countries.

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NRA Pistol/Rifle Inst. RSO

This is from NRA/ILA site re: FOPA.
Note the warnings about a hotel stay, handling baggage w/a firearm inside ect.
..also the "affirmative defense" issue...


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FEDERAL LAW ON TRANSPORTATION
OF FIREARMS

A provision of the federal law known as the Firearms Owners` Protection Act, or FOPA, protects those who are transporting firearms for lawful purposes from local restrictions which would otherwise prohibit passage.

Under FOPA, notwithstanding any state or local law, a person is entitled to transport a firearm from any place where he or she may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he or she may lawfully possess and carry it, if the firearm is unloaded and locked out of reach. In vehicles without a trunk, the unloaded firearm must be in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console. Ammunition that is either locked out of reach in the trunk or in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console is also covered.
Travelers should be aware that some state and local governments treat this federal provision as an "affirmative defense" that may only be raised after an arrest. The U.S. Court of Appeals for the Third Circuit has also recently held that FOPA`s protections only apply while the firearm is not readily accessible to the traveler, and that a firearm is readily accessible during a hotel stay.

While this decision is only binding in New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Delaware and the U.S. Virgin Islands, all travelers in areas with restrictive laws would be well advised to have copies of any applicable firearm licenses or permits, as well as copies or printouts from the relevant jurisdictions` official publications or websites documenting pertinent provisions of law (including FOPA itself) or reciprocity information. In the event of an unexpected or extended delay, travelers should make every effort not to handle any luggage containing firearms unnecessarily and to secure it in a location where they do not have ready access to it.
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....and in the section on firearms aboard commercial aircraft:

Special Advisory for New York and New Jersey Airports: Despite federal law that protects travelers, authorities at JFK, La Guardia, Newark and Albany airports have been known to enforce state and local firearms laws against airline travelers who are merely passing through the jurisdiction. In some cases, even persons traveling in full compliance with federal law have been arrested or threatened with arrest. As noted above in the section entitled "Federal Law on the Transportation of Firearms," FOPA`s protections have been substantially narrowed by court decisions, and persons traveling with firearms may want to avoid New York and New Jersey or make arrangements to ship their firearms to their destination, rather than bringing them through these jurisdictions.

http://www.nraila.org/gunlaws/federal/read.aspx?id=59

Is this a disturbing thought:
a NYC resident marrys a California resident-will the off-springs be pro-gun or anti-gun?

My chances of getting a carry license in my part of suburban NY are zilch.

The last thing we need is the Federal government enacting more laws.

I think these laws are stupid. Guns on an airplane, if you are LEGAL to carry a gun have the proper documents why cant you? If more people carried guns on planes wouldnt you think twice before you tried to take one over? Gee there are 70 people on this plane if only 1 person has a gun I would get shot, if 5 people have guns Iam not going to make it out alive for sure. Look over there a car from New York with a flat tire... Hmmm Those people are from out of state, I bet a could help myself to that nice lady's purse her old mans wallet.....Shoot did I just see a K frame on his hip?.........Point is with more people carrying LEGAL guns the bad guys would think before they act. Just my thought, sure you think the same way.......

If you're talking only about what the law says, then I agree with you. It doesn't say anything about not stopping overnight. Of course, the 2A says "shall not be infringed".

Then you brought up common sense. If you're talking about common sense, I agree with you. Your read makes perfect sense and mine doesn't. However, gun law and common sense aren't always soulmates.

I was speaking to what will get your carcass thrown in jail in some jurisdictions. Check out the Revell case: NRA-ILA :: Outrage Of The Week The 3rd Circuit pretty much gutted any safe harbor provision because the plaintiff had the firearm in the hotel room with him (deemed accessible by the court.) The NRA said they have two similar cases pending in the 2nd Circuit.

Do what you wish. I'm just saying you're taking a chance by RONing somewhere like NYC or Chicago.

Regards,
Herk

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Where's my dad's America?

She complied when she saw a sign, “No guns allowed.”

Maybe she can plead entrapment since no guns are allowed in the the city - period.

Also, did you see the part of the article were another traveler was arrested while have a gun legally locked and checked in his baggage while passing thru LaGuardia? He is in compliance with Federal Law, NYC just chooses to ignore it. Bush's Attorney Generally always stepped in when they tried this **** under his watch. Kinda doubt if "fast and Furious" Holder will.

Put NJ in there. After Bush's AG stopped NJ from arresting people traveling through the state with a handgun secured per Federal Law, NJ stopped. However, if you stop -for any reason (rest stop, gas, etc) then NJ considers you are not traveling interstate and if you don't have a NJ permit to own you're in deep, deep doo-doo.

I was born in NYC and I'm pro-gun, so I guess that there are many possible answers to your question.

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'Merica!

She could have driven straight to the sight. Then decided the correct thing to do is to turn in her gun to the police. She tried to do the correct thing and gets arrested. Stupid. What was she suppose to do? Stop at the city boundary and call the cops to her to come and pick up the gun?

How about this senario: You are walking around and happen to find a gun (in an alleyway or park grounds or where ever). You don't have a phone so you pick it up because you don't want someone else to find it and you immediately wave down a cop. Are you now liable to spend 3.5 years in prison even if your intention was to prevent someone from finding and possibly use it?

Good to know. Let's not forget the Brian Aitken incident either. This isn't FOPA-related, but it shows how NJ thinks about handguns.

The guy was sentenced to 7 years in jail and spent because he was moving out of his parents' house (getting back on his feet after a divorce), and he made a "life sucks" type comment that made his social worker mother fear for his safety enough to call the cops. Officers arrived on scene and asked if he had firearms. He answered yes, and opened the trunk for them under threat of arrest. The cops on scene did NOT want to arrest him. They were fine with him leaving the guns with his dad. However, HQ said "Bring him in." They did. In NJ, it's illegal to own a firearm unless you have an affirmative defense. Moving is one of those defenses. The jury was not told of the moving defense because the judge intentionally left it out of his instructions because he felt there was not enough evidence (a car load of personal belongings wasn't good enough) to show that Aitken was moving. The jury sentenced him to seven years. They didn't want to, but they felt their hands were tied by the law. Gov Christie communted his sentence. Notice, he didn't pardon him (i.e. absolve him of all wrongdoing and clear his name); he merely said, "You've done enough jail time. You can go now." Of course, this was under pressure from gun rights activists and the general public.

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Where's my dad's America?

Well you are half right. A drivers license is good in all 50 states. Depends on what one marries will decide if the marriage is honored in other states. Many states do not recognize same sex marriage. But just visiting in another state should not be a problem with marriage.

I have mixed feelings on this.

Yes, the people being arrested were breaking a law. They were adults and should have known better. It is obvious they are among the group I have a problem with. They bought guns but are not gun people. Everyone here knows to not carry in NYC, Chicago, DC or Los Angeles. Each person here knows to stay out of CA, NY, IL, NJ and a few others, especially if they have a gun.

I would bet those arrested have not fired their guns since they got their permits. Yet they own guns.

While I do not agree with the laws in the anti gun areas, it is law and should be obeyed.
I do not agree with some laws in Louisiana either but I have to obey them as well.

Now for the common sense wisdom from this old man.

If people want the laws changed in the anti gun areas, then they need to get the laws changed. I promise you that if one half of those visiting in anti gun areas would not go there to visit the laws would change. Hit NYC in their pocketbook and they will change their laws. Send the powers to be a letter with a copy of a hotel bill from another area showing you spent money elsewhere due to NYC anti gun laws.

If you live in those areas, MOVE. Living there only enables the government to continue their restrictive laws. Should I not be allowed by law to carry my sidearm in to the downtown area where I live, I would be gone in a few days. I moved from a good area many yrs ago just due to restrictive gun laws there. I turned down a great job with a six figure income in an area due to their restrictive gun laws. There has been much said on this forum about businesses that do not allow firearms and how they are being boycotted. Some businesses have removed their anti gun restrictions due to being boycotted. Cities and states are no different. Reduce their income and citizens and you will see laws changing.

Is it hypocritical of a gun owner to continue to reside and spent their money in a town that will not allow their residents a Consititutional Right? I think so.

Look at FL. They reduced their crime rate simply because they made it easier for residents to carry guns. They made the state safer by doing so. Then they made billions of dollars from the increased tourist trade and selling out of state gun permits.

Look at Morton Grove, IL. They passed an anti gun law in the town that made it almost impossible to own a gun there. Compare that to Kennesaw, GA that made a law requiring all eligible residents to own guns and the ammo to use in those guns. Morton Grove lost residents and their tax base was reduced. Kennesaw grew and prospered.

Actually I think it might be a good thing he had his sentence commuted instead of an out right pardon. He's still got an appeal going. A pardon probably would have made the appeal moot. This way the whole question can be taken up by the appelate court.

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Pete.

This one tops it all. A son retires from NYPD. He goes through all the necessary procedures. His guns remain in his work locker and he can not take them home. He is told it will take 3-6 months before the paperwork is approved for him to be allowed to carry again. Suppose he had just gotten a job requiring him to carry? He is as defenseless as any other citizen to protect his home or family. They really know how to treat their retirees.

I believe that Federal law allows him to carry based on his retirement from LEA. LEOSA allows him to carry ANYWHERE in the US and many here do so.

Questions ~ I have read this entire thread and have become more confused about interstate fiream transport than I was before I read it. I have lifted "handejector"'s posted photo from the first page and transplanted it here for the purpose of my question.

I travel almost every year from PA to Maine to hunt black bear (I'm in the process of obtaining a Maine carry permit). On this journey, I travel through NY (state), Conn., Mass., Vermont, and into Maine. (1) Do these laws pertain to long gun transportation? (2) Do I have to have long arm ammuntition in a locked box? (3) Am I legally allowed to have a revolver in the vehicle? (4) If a revolver is legal, am I required to have both the gun and ammunition in a locked box since I am technically in a vehicle with one compartment (Chevy Blazer)? Any information y'all care to share would be appreciated!

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While I understand the legal theory that you are responsible for knowing the laws of the various jurisdictions you are traveling through, I think that Officers and D.A.s need to exercise some common sense. The simple fact is that there are far too many laws out there for a regular citizen to actually know or even discover them all in advance of their travels. If someone makes an honest mistake, they don't deserve to be slapped down with the full force of the law. A warning perhaps?

The girl at ground zero with the gun asked the officer what to do with her gun when she saw the sign. The officer should have instantly realized she was clueless to NYC laws and explained them, then tried to determine a solution that would work it out.

That's how it should work when an officer encounters an "out of towner" who doesn't know the local laws. Stop them, explain it, give them warning, work out a solution, and help them. As long as they are courteous and obey, why not?

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"... shall not be infringed."

It's much safe than arresting real criminals. You can get hurt doing that.