I have been buying and selling on Ebay for over 13 years. Until recently, I have had very good experiences. Ebay used to be an excellent way to auction. They charged fees based upon your listing services and a final value fee based upon the total sales price. This fee used to be about 4%. There have been some changes that have begun to give me pause. Ebay requires that most transactions have to be paid for using PayPal. PayPal charges approximately 3% for this “convenience”. It should be noted that Ebay now owns PayPal and that Ebay is PayPal’s largest customer.

Ebay has changed its listing fees somewhat but has raised their final value fee to 9% on items up to $1000.00. Now one must pay 12% to Ebay and PayPal. This is comparable to the consignment fee at some gun stores.

Ebay recently employed a Buyer Protection Program. Basically if a buyer is not happy with the product they purchase they can open a “case“. If the seller doesn’t resolve the case with the buyer, Ebay gets involved and decides the “case”.

This just happened to me. I sold a somewhat high end Randall Knife. It was as new and a limited production knife by the Randall Collector’s Society. The buyer “sniped” it in the last 30 seconds of the auction and outbid a reputable dealer. When the buyer received the knife he claimed that there was a crack in the stag and he wanted to return it. I countered that there wasn’t a crack in the stag that any imperfections were characteristic of stag. This went back and forth for a while. I offered to refund a portion of his money to compensate the buyer for his dissatisfaction. He was not interested. He then opened a “case”. As soon as the case was opened , I received a message from Ebay to reimburse the buyer to avoid a penalty. This was before any evidence had been heard. The buyer sent two extremely high resolution pictures of the “crack”. If you magnify anything enough it will look faulty. I should add that I posted several high resolution pictures in the original listing. However, Ebay reduces the clarity so it is almost impossible to show any detail.

Ebay then decided in the buyer’s favor and sent him a shipping label. I was sent an e-mail from Ebay to examine the knife upon return and then refund the buyer within 3 days. If I did, I would not be charged the 9% final value fee. I received the knife back yesterday. The buyer had apparently thrown away the original Randall wrapping paper and covered the shipping box with tape. Yesterday evening I logged onto Ebay to refund the buyer. I was greeted with a message from Ebay that they had already refunded the buyer and now I needed to refund them. During this entire process, Ebay put a freeze on my PayPal account in the amount of the total sales price plus shipping.

Since I wasn’t given the opportunity to refund directly to the buyer, I will be charged the final value fee.

After talking to several lovely representatives from India, I haven’t been able to find out what happened. I appealed my case in an attempt to recoup my fees for services that I didn’t receive.

I apologize for this long winded, whiny post, but I think some of you may benefit. Selling on Ebay no longer is a pleasure. Give the business to someone else.

I never deal with Ebay and I never deal with PayPal. Life is much simpler this way.

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Dick

I stopped dealing with ebay when they went pay-pal only. I bought and sold hundreds of items, and never an un happy camper on either end.

No way I would ship anything of value to an anonymous internet contact without having CASH in my hand first.

You are lucky you got anything back at all, I am seeing more and more reports of "not received" or "received destroyed" and ebay refunding the buyer with no need to return anything.

I still buy quite often on eBay but haven't sold anything there in a couple of years. Not likely to change.

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A closed mouth gathers no foot

I have always enjoyed buying over eBay and have been using PayPal for a while now. I don't sell over eBay though, but I have taken payments via PayPal. I look at the PayPal percentage the same way as credit card machines have a percentage that retailers have to fork over. You are using them for their convenience that brings in more customers. I have yet to be burned in a PayPal transaction. Now to I think they are getting a little silly with their cut of the deal? YES! But at this point I'm more worried about getting a fake USPS MO than I am getting burned in a PayPal transaction. Come to think of it, I used to select "PayPal only" or some setting in my eBay searches to make sure I only looked at listings that I could pay via PayPal. I doubt I'm alone. Also, PayPal allows buyers to use their credit card to make a purchase from a seller. I don't know what the cost of a setup is to take CC payments these days through a bank, but I know it's a lot more than the percentage that PayPal gaffs you. No system is perfect, but I still keep waiting for something better to roll out. Heck, I'm even sketchy about many people's checks. I hate holding up shipping on something since it comes across as saying the buyer may be a lying cheat, but the reality is that I have in the small bit of selling that I have done, I have had several bounced checks come back. It's hard to make a system that really holds everyone correctly accountable for their actions and this stinks that the OP was burned (taking his word for it), but all it would take is for people to be honest in all things for this to go away. Since that will never happen, this is the best we can hope for and have to put up with. I say make the best of it.

I heard PayPal is Anti-Gun!

Intersting story. I just got off a 3 day suspension for abusing the listing rules. I was guilty, just didn't know it was against the rules and my wrist have been slapped. I will be good now. Promise.

I use eBay, buying and selling and look upon their charges as just part of the business, overhead, if you like and just add it to my price. I don't know where you can get a bigger audience for selling.

I've had very few problems in my almost 20 yrs now. I don't sell (or buy) high $ items and stay away from the high volume sellers who are just middle-middle and sometimes more middle men. You got to know the value of what you want. I like the one-of-a-kind items that I would never see if it wasn't for eBay.
Those items are getting more rare as the market (not just eBay) is flooded w/the latest electronic wizard device that nobody's life is complete without.

And the value of PayPal to me is how it speeds up the transaction. Instead of it taking weeks, its 3-5 days w/PP .

My first infraction, a few years ago, was when I tried to sell a knife with an Ivory Micarta handle. It was pulled from Ebay. I tried to explain that it wasn't Ivory, but no go. The second was the M14 bayonet. You can't use M14 or M16 because M14's and M16's are bad. You can use M1, M6 or M7. Go figure.

I haven't sold recently because if you sell through e-bay you MUST accept Pay Pal.

Last purchase I did with e-bay a guy sold me some J frame grips with one broken in half, something he failed to mention. He refused to take them back. and e-bay/PayPal didn't want to get involved.

i don't deal with e-bay and I don't accept paypal for payment for stuff I sell. I have been known to accept various kinds of livestock such as pigs, chickens or goats and lately I have had a powerful urge to get me a good monkey to hang around the shop with me.

I too discontinued any use of ebay when they went paypal only. I haven't even looked at the site since. I will have nothing to do with paypal.

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H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

I'm into PP and Ebay for 11 years now. They have become a Buyer's Agent and seem to care little for the seller. They consistently make it harder for a seller to keep a good rating. Most buyers are genuine, but there are definitely "flakes" out there...those who don't understand that they are buying used, but expect new. My "very Good" description of an item may not meet yours, especially if you are a PITA. Ebay always sides with the seller. Their "investigation" is BS. They do nothing, but refund the buyer. That said, they are still the best out there because they are the most widely used. Twelve percent is outrageous, but the service is quick.

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Term limits!

I stopped using PayPal after my bank account was hacked. I was told they had security problems, I found out the hard way.

Paypal sucks - and I refuse to buy anything from anybody who requires I use them - did I tell you Paypal sucks? If I didn't - Paypal sucks!

Pete

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Don't tread on me

I've sold on ebay for some years now and still do occasionally, not as much since I've turned to other markets to sell my sight tools. There are other methods that you can accept payments by such as credit cards if you are set up for that and a couple of other online payment companies that I'm not familiar with, along with the option that someone can pay when they pick it up if it's a local buyer. On my website, checkout is done through Paypal or a buyer can choose to snail mail me a USPS or Walmart MO or cashier's check, I don't care either way other than with a Paypal payment I can ship the item to the buyer much cheaper than if I walk into the PO and do it over the counter.

It's not that Paypal is "anti-gun", this is an internet forum fact that is based on someone using Paypal to purchase a firearm then was surprised then their account was frozen then closed. Simply reading the rules for using Paypal would have prevented this, since it's very clear that you cannot use it to purchase firearms or ammunition unless the seller has been pre-approved by Paypal. This is along with a bunch of other items that are prohibited purchases, it's all about reading the fine print just like anything anymore. They're based in California, is anyone surprised that they restrict firearm purchases? It's more about being "anti-being-sued" than anti-gun, and we all know how California is as far as litigation. If someone used Paypal to buy a firearm, then went all nuts and blew away 47 people at their workplace with it, guess who would be included in the ensuing lawsuit? It's just business.

Yes, their sellers' fees are getting to be a bit stifling, but then again where can you get the exposure for your sales that their site offers? For a grand total of .20, my listings get seen in the United States, the UK and I'm assuming everywhere else since I've sold tools to eight countries. I know that Google certainly isn't driving all those sales to my website at the current time. I can't buy advertising for that amount, for sure.

ebay is a tool. If used properly it can work to expose your stuff to the world, if you figure out how to use it. Just keep track of the costs yourself instead of relying on them to do it for you, then the monthly bill won't be such a surprise. It's not a viable market for a business unless you deal in high volume high profit items that aren't likely to be returned by the buyer, but it's fine for occasional sales or getting rid of that old camera or holsters.

I understand there is a LARGE one available in Georgia!!

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SWCA #2306
DAV in honor of POP

I've basically stopped selling on ebay after they stopped letting sellers post negative feedback on buyers.

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J.D. Roy

And there are definately some sorry buyers out there. Not being able to give them negative feedback is a big mistake by E-Bay. It's causing a lot of sellers to go elsewhere. Eventually with no sellers you'll have no buyers. Jr. ran into something similar to the OP. He sold an old Abu Garcia reel that was unused in the box. The fool took it apart and couldn't get it back together and sent it back to Jr. and claime it had a bent handle.(it didn't) Ebay had refunded the buyers $ and told Jr. to send it to them. Jr. appealed and sent them proof of what happened. Ebay ate that one and told Jr. not to send them the $. Bottom line: Jr. got the $ from the fool and got the reel back. He then sold it to some guy in England who apparently is satisfied with it. Someone somewhere with deep pockets needs to compete with Ebay and PP for less money. It would put them out of business as right now they have a monopoly.

best post ever!!! you just made my night lol thanks man

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psalm 23:4 cause I'm armed

you really need to stop talkin about my sister that way or we're gonna have problems

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psalm 23:4 cause I'm armed

The GREAT APE is your Sister??? OMG

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SWCA #2306
DAV in honor of POP

I just recently sold an item on Ebay for $450 and the fees were around 11 - 12% for Ebay & Paypal which IMHO are a bit absurd! I never remember their fees being so high, and it will now change the pricing structure on items that are sold on their site. I suppose the reasoning for this is they are not getting the volume of business they once had, and their expenses have gone up as well as the greed factor. The one thing that REALLY ticked me off was that now you are mandated to using Paypal to get paid and then I had to wait 21 days after the customer who bought my items picked up the merchandise from my house - (in person) to get my money released, which is even MORE ABSURD than the fee! I called them and went ballistic, and finally after two days they agreed to release my money in 7 days instead of 21.

Unless I have no choice I will us e a different method of selling in the future.



Chief38

Hey, there's always Craigs List. I hear it's free and you never get burned...

This ^^^

I joined in 1999 and when it was an Internet garage sale site, we all had a ball. "Feedback" meant everything and 99% of us valued it.

Buyers now know that they can hold sellers as hostage with bad feedback, warranted or not. My last sale was over a year ago. The buyer came right out and said that if I didn't give him an after sale discount, he would "ruin my reputation." Since the dimwit put it in writing, Ebay sided with me but that was the signal I needed to knw it was time to go.

Ebay is looking to be a clearing house for retailers now. They do not value us nickle-and-dimers and have made that perfectly clear with their policies.

Okay by me. It's their game and their rules and no one is making me play. So I choose not to anymore.

It was fun while it lasted...

Exactly and believe it or not there are buyers that deserve negative feedback.

And no I don't plan to give 11-12 percent just for the privilege of selling. I don't make a lot anyway on stuff and before I would give that bunch 12 percent I would just give the stuff away and I do that sometimes. I gave a forum member and friend a box of Barnes X bullets for the .405 winchester that I ordered for someone 10 years ago and they never picked up and theres always a benefit auction for some needy person in my area. Sometimes I buy stuff just to give away. I don't need some blood sucking maggot like flea-bay and I'd druther accept a dollar a week payment plan than take pay-pal.

Wow...It's been such a long time since I've had (buying or selling) dealings with ebay, I had no idea that they've made it so difficult for sellers. I see no real reason to use them again, especially as a seller.

Yea but he's old, onery and ain't house broke.

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Forum consigliere

I have sold maybe 15 items on ebay and I don't think it's for me. I have bought way more than I have sold. I just bought a new spotting scope from a big dealer and got it cheaper than I could find it anywhere. If I can find the best deal on ebay I will buy from them if not I will spend my money elsewhere. Don

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"Don't worry be happy"

I have bought a lot of stuff on e-bay, don't buy any now. More bogus sellers than ever before, and selling more junk than ever before. I used to use PayPal until they changed the rules and wanted unlimited access to your checking account. Only my wife has that priviledge. Haven't used PayPal in years! Miss some of the old sellers though, they were real gentlemen and ladies and a pleasure to do business with. All gone with the wind.

I use Paypal as a primary payment source for my business now, never a problem with them. The only access they have to my bank account is when I listed it as a backup funding source in case I want to buy something that is more than what I have in my Paypal account. As far as buying off ebay, you have to follow the same rules for purchasing off on anyplace on the Internet, and ebay has more protection than a lot of websites, especially for buyers. I agree that it lost a lot of it's appeal to me when they changed the rule about leaving negative feedback for buyers, your hands are tied in a lot of cases. I had a buyer leave negative feedback on me, saying I never shipped the item, when in actuality the idiot had moved and never updated his shipping address on his account.

I've always been a buyer on eBay, never a seller. The majority of the time, my transactions have been without incident. However, there have been a few occasions where the seller clearly misrepresented the item, for example, a holster that was for a left-handed person, but advertised as being for a right-handed person, and I got the pleasure of paying the postage (and insurance) both ways for the seller's mistake. Yes, I received a refund, but why should I be penalized for someone else's mistake? As time goes by I frequent eBay less and less often.

Regards,

Dave

I have been on the fence using ebay/paypal for this very same and possible scenario.

"thedane", you just convinced me to stop using both.

Sorry about your lousy transaction.

My bank offers a free service to me that can electronically transfer my funds to someone else's bank account directly. I only have to provide online to my the bank the buyer's/ family member/ charities / email address and how much I want to send to that address. I see nothing else. the bank email's the buyer and asks the buyer if they want to accept the $. If they say yes they provide, via banks secure internet web site, their bank account # & routing #. The $ then goes directly to their account. I (the seller) never see any of that info. Just whether the person accepted this type of transfer and when it is transferred. I have done this many times. It doesn't matter what bank or type of bank/ credit union the buyer has. My bank takes care of all of that. Just another way... and no fees... of course greenbacks work well too!

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John 1:17
NRA Life Benefactor

The only time I use Ebay is when I can't find the item I want anywhere else. I email the seller to see if they will take a USPS money order before I bid. If they are PayPal only, I pass.

I thought I would update my original post. After 6 weeks and many hours spent on e-mails and phone calls to Ebay, I have accomplished getting my knife back, reimbursement of the fees from Ebay for the knife that wasn't sold and compensation for the buyer's trashing some of the original Randall shipping materials. Also, Ebay reversed their original decision and decided in my favor.

The buyer's response was to leave negative and untruthful comments. I replied and countered his comments. I made a mistake in saying that Ebay decided in my favor. This violated Ebay's rules and they deleted my response. Now I can't say anything in my defense since I had one chance to respond and they deleted it.

I had 13 years without a problem. However, now they compute feedback based upon the last 12 months data. So, if you've had hundreds or thousands of transactions, it only matters what has happened lately...

Now I'm off to PayPal to see if I can get back the $20 that they charged me receive the money that I was forced to refund.

I've been a member of ebay since '97 I think.
It used to be a pleasure to buy/sell there. Not any more.
I only buy now and avoid all those high fees.