Can someone ID this snake

BearBio · #51 01-25-2012, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texas Star

I think the more realistic posters decided that it's an Eastern Garter Snake, but a very large example.

One that size could probably make someone very sick if it managed to deliver a serious bite. They have rear fangs, like the Boomslang and the African Bird Snake. Not that the Garter Snake is that lethal, by any means.

The Boomslang needs to inject just about 1.5mg. of venom to kill an average 150 lb. man, against some 20 mg. for most cobras and the Black Mamba. (The Cape Cobra/Yellow Cobra is more toxic, at some 15 mg. Books by Minton and Minton and the US Naval medical manual for snake ID and treatment provided this info. I'm going by memory, but think those figures are correct.)

If new member Frikkie sees this, he probably knows the danger of those snakes. Thought he might like to know the lethal dose.

Not much research has been done on garter snake venom, which seems fairly potent in some populations, although none has yet killed a human, to my knowledge. It's a neurotoxin.

1) A small boy in Santa Barbara, CA died from a garter bite but it may have been a protein reaction.

2) One of the authors of the Navy ID book, Dr Fred Shannon, died in Randsburg, CA after being nailed by a mohave rattler. He was with Dr Findley Russell (his co-author) and died in 15 minutes. He was bit on the left thumb.

Texas Star · #52 01-26-2012, 12:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BearBio

1) A small boy in Santa Barbara, CA died from a garter bite but it may have been a protein reaction.

2) One of the authors of the Navy ID book, Dr Fred Shannon, died in Randsburg, CA after being nailed by a mohave rattler. He was with Dr Findley Russell (his co-author) and died in 15 minutes. He was bit on the left thumb.

BIO-

Thanks. Didn't know that about Dr. Shannon. I do know the Mohave Rattler is potentially quite lethal. I certainly know Dr. Russell's name, and Sherman Minton's. I think Dr. Minton also contributed to that book, and he and his wife wrote at least two other books. I think that Dr. Russell and Dr. Minton are now deceased.

jkc · #53 01-26-2012, 02:41 AM

My first reaction to the OP photo was that it was some sort of "trick" photography, but, now that I'm more or less reliably informed that Garter snakes are actually known to achieve such sizes, I'm reinforced in my initial impression that it's a Garter snake. There is a similarly marked and colored snake here in the desert SW, the patch-nosed snake, distinguished from its similar eastern cousins by different squamation (shape/size/arrangement of scales). This serves to illustrate to me that you don't know what you don't know.

williamlayton · #54 01-26-2012, 07:48 PM

I will only say that if any has killed more snakes than me we should get together and talk.
Blessings

Oldiron · #55 01-26-2012, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by williamlayton

I will only say that if any has killed more snakes than me we should get together and talk.
Blessings

Don't know on your numbers but when we were kids my brother and I would have a snake killing contest every summer. We would take the Benjamin the halfmile down the creek to my grandparents house shooting snakes all the way. Usually got 40-50/year between the two of us.
Larry

Cicero · #56 01-27-2012, 01:35 AM

It is an Eastern Garter Snake. Probably not too large. Its just how the Picture was taken. They have no fangs what so ever. No front fangs no rear fangs.............no fangs. Just very many rear pointing teath for grasping and holding onto things. Non poisonous but will bite if molested. if bitten, dont panic and pull your finger(or whatever) away. Wait for it to release you(takes about a second) so you dont tear your finger or whatever up. If the bite breaks your skin get a tetanous shot if your tetanus shot is not up to date.

Chubbs103 · #57 01-27-2012, 02:03 AM

I used to think they were non-venomous as well. Then I saw some wild-life special saying we were all wrong.

I caught hundreds growing up. If I only knew.

Garter snake - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Scroll down to "venom"

Chubbs

mjr · #58 01-27-2012, 08:02 PM

One of my earliest childhood memories is of me killing a garter snake by beating it to death with a stick. I wasn't yet three years old and probably thought I was St. George killing the dragon. My dad wasn't impressed with my heroism--he loved all forms of wildlife (except ticks and mosquitoes) and never killed anything that didn't absolutely need killing. I haven't killed a snake since.

enfield · #59 01-27-2012, 08:48 PM

Most snakes in the US are harmless to humans and animals. The few that aren't are easily identified.

Cicero · #60 01-29-2012, 12:14 AM

Interesting on the venom. I have been refering to Petersons field guide for years. never failed me yet.
For the sake of the species I wouldn't go spreading the possible fact that they do have some amount of venom given the fact that to date, no one has died of a garter snake bite. Used to catch them by the dozens as a child.

Texas Star · #61 01-29-2012, 01:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cicero

Interesting on the venom. I have been refering to Petersons field guide for years. never failed me yet.
For the sake of the species I wouldn't go spreading the possible fact that they do have some amount of venom given the fact that to date, no one has died of a garter snake bite. Used to catch them by the dozens as a child.

Uhhh... the fact isn't "possible." At least some species of garter snake do have that and not making it clear could result in a serious bite, especially for a kid or an elderly victim. I don't know of any real studies done of the venom, but one writer said that it's worse than expected. I'd think that really big snakes like the one that began this thread might be especially dangerous, for their species.

Any venomous snake bite will result in a large hospital bill and considerable anxiety. No fun!

Texas Star · #62 01-29-2012, 01:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BearBio

1) A small boy in Santa Barbara, CA died from a garter bite but it may have been a protein reaction.

2) One of the authors of the Navy ID book, Dr Fred Shannon, died in Randsburg, CA after being nailed by a mohave rattler. He was with Dr Findley Russell (his co-author) and died in 15 minutes. He was bit on the left thumb.

But the boy did die. And I read somewhere of several other fairly serious bites.

chud333 · #63 01-29-2012, 05:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texas Star

But the boy did die. And I read somewhere of several other fairly serious bites.

Come on it's a Garter snake. Muchado about nothing.
We are'nt talking Black Mamba here. I too caught these
by the dozens as a kid growing up. And while there may
be the occasional reaction to ANYTHING, it's not a poisonous
variety. Just as getting bit by a dog is not. All animals will
carry bacteria, some form of proteins in their saliva etc... on their teeth.

MHO Chuck--

PA Reb · #64 01-29-2012, 12:58 PM

Wow, the coloring on that beast does suggest a Garter snake but I have never seen one with the infamous "viper shaped head" like that! My son has a beautiful Red Tailed Boa in the neighborhood of 8 feet long so big snakes don't bother me much

. I also believe ALL snakes should be left unmolested in the wild unless they are posing a threat. Leave them alone and they'll leave you alone!

FTG-05 · #65 01-29-2012, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chud333

Come on it's a Garter snake. Muchado about nothing.
We are'nt talking Black Mamba here. I too caught these
by the dozens as a kid growing up. And while there may
be the occasional reaction to ANYTHING, it's not a poisonous
variety. Just as getting bit by a dog is not. All animals will
carry bacteria, some form of proteins in their saliva etc... on their teeth.

MHO Chuck--

Speaking of Black Mambas, here's a pic of my then-11 year old son with his pet Black Mamba. Several snake experts tell me that BMs make excellent pets!

chud333 · #66 01-30-2012, 01:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FTG-05

Speaking of Black Mambas, here's a pic of my then-11 year old son with his pet Black Mamba. Several snake experts tell me that BMs make excellent pets!

Your son sir has bigger kehonies than me and i'm 52 yrs. old. EXACTLY what part of Alabama do you live in?
I'd like to steer clear of the area. Yikes !!!!
Me and my brother and buddies used to hunt Copperheads
with our bb/pellet guns when we we're 10-12 yrs. old in
S. Carolina but never ran across those B. Mambas. hahaha

ogilvyspecial · #67 01-30-2012, 01:31 AM

This thread brought back the time, the only time, that I was bitten by a Garter Snake.
Well, the only time I was bitten and it hurt.

I was about 10 or 11 and while it did hurt I was more ticked off that it bit me than anything else.
Like others here I caught a bunch of 'em when I was a kid.

The one that "got me" was almost, but not quite, as big as the one in the pic at the start of this thread.
I remember that when it bit me I pulled my hand away and it was dangling from my hand, still holding on.

That sucker did draw blood..........

FTG-05 · #68 02-01-2012, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chud333

Your son sir has bigger kehonies than me and i'm 52 yrs. old. EXACTLY what part of Alabama do you live in?
I'd like to steer clear of the area. Yikes !!!!
Me and my brother and buddies used to hunt Copperheads
with our bb/pellet guns when we we're 10-12 yrs. old in
S. Carolina but never ran across those B. Mambas. hahaha

This snake was caught in the hills just east of the Killingsworth Cove area, NE of Huntsville.

It's a standard issue Alabama Gray Rat Snake

- completely harmless to humans. It struggled the first 20-30 seconds after we caught it, then it just calmed down like it had lived with human beings all it's life. We let it go about 5 minutes after that pic was taken.

Jim Fuller · #69 02-01-2012, 04:21 PM

Son of a gun, That thing looks just like a 'politician' snake.

mwtdvm · #70 02-01-2012, 06:51 PM

relying on memory that may be faulty, I recall that garter snake's venom was toxic but to amphibians. A neurotoxin IIRC.

As to the flattened head, I can remember catching them around Park Forest IL (before it got developed) and when they were PO'd they would flatten their heads.