... of Glocks? (Heresy to even ask, I know. )

While I imagine Elmer Keith would have disliked most things about Glocks, I suspect he'd have actually liked the grip angle and the lack of a manual safety catch. He may also have liked the trigger for fast DA-style shooting, though not for precise shooting. And maybe the sights, though perhaps only the adjustable versions.

What do you think?

Thanks, and Semper Fi.

Ron H.

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Wishin' don't make it so.

I think he would have called the 9mm version an abomination, akin to a knotty pine 2X4 that shot BB's, but without the warm feel of pretty wood. In larger calibers he'd probably call it better than nothing, but not by much, thereby damning it with faint praise..

I don't think his hands would let him grasp one...............they were far too accustomed to plowhandled guns.

I am a Glock owner but not a Glock fan. Seriously I hate them. They are ugly, heavy, bulky to handle and look like some kid's water pistol.

Yet I feel Elmer Keith would have good things to say about the Glock due to the durability, functionality and sales price.

As to his opinion on a 9mm, it was around in his day and I have not read any of his opinions on the 9mm.

His opinion may have been like mine. There is a place for the 9mm firearm. That place is on the range as a target gun. It is cheap and fun to shoot but not for serious work.

It would be hard to say. People's opinions usually evolve as technolgy advances. I suspect his would have as well. I believe that he would have embraced the advances in powder and bullet performance that we enjoy today. He did a lot of experimentation and went by the results that he got. I expect that if he found ways to get improved results he would have embraced them.

Unless he could have shot it long range at a target I doubt Elmer would have had much use for any semi auto pistol.

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Vaya con Dios

I think he would like the 10mm and even the 40s&w. I think he would view glocks as good tools. I want to know what he would think about the 329pd.

Probably would have said that it shoulda been throttled at birth!

Semi autos were around in his time. He said he liked the way the Luger pointed, so I know he had used that. I remember an article on "use enough gun", where he said little people were not stuck with little guns. He had easily and quickly taught children and small women how to handle the "big Colt 45 automatic", so he used that. He liked the fact that the Super 38 would go through a bullet-proof vest, but didn't seem to have much more use for it. He had the choice of double action autos (Smith 39, Walther P38), large capacity autos (Browning Hi Power) and large caliber autos (1911). He stayed with 44 caliber double action revolvers.

So, I believe that Elmer would not have used a Glock, or a Phaser (if they were available), 'cause he was a strong believer in the heavy caliber S&W Hand Ejector.

Oh, and oldman, re-read Sixguns. There's a story about a Sheriff attempting to arrest a "big negro", who did not want to be arrested. The sheriff shot him with a Luger. That did not work out real good. Been a while since I read it, but it seems like the bullet bounced off the suspect's skull. Elmer was not impressed with a 9mm.

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I always take precautions

Glocks are ugly chunks of pot metal and plastic that just happen to be highly functional, extremly accurate, even at long range, and very useful tools that will get you there and back, as long as you take the time to learn it. (...and install a "competition" trigger.)

Just a guess.

The Glock seem to be a very popular topic for discussion on this board. I guess that's why we see glock ads up at the top of the page a lot. the more often a word is used the more we become a target for those glock ads. So as regards Glocks, I do think Elmer keith would have favorable things to say about the glock, though he probably wouldn't be carrying a glock due to the fact that he preferred revolvers over semi-autos and as we know glock does not make a revolver even though glock could but glock chooses not to. What glock will do in the future only glock knows or maybe even glock doesn't know whether glock will build a glock revolver.

I didn't know Elmer except through a couple letters and the stories friends of mine who visited and met him. He was certainly no admirer of small-bores in general, we know that much. Seems like his comment about the S&W 39 was that it would be a good police-gun, IF it could be made in .45-caliber.

We do know that he was an accomplished experimenter and a tinkerer. It seems almost assured he wouldn't have reacted well to the Glock in 9mm, but the bigger model in .45 might have gotten his begrudging approval - for use by others - probably not for himself.

I remember the story of one friend who visited Elmer and made the silly mistake of picking up Elmer's Seecamp-converted .45 Automatic - and pressing the trigger. It went BANG! - inside Elmer's home! Apparently all of Elmer's guns literally were "always loaded." But the point is that he did seem to have a lively interest in handgun developments of all kinds, and I would think it certain he would have evaluated the Glock to satisfy his own questions. As far as using it himself, probably not!

In his day there were auto loading pistols but he shot revolvers. There were also cheap pistols like Iver Johnson, Rossi, Taurus, H&R, etc. and there were companies making pot metal and plastic toy guns for kids but he used S&W and Colts in heavy calibers. Why would anybody think he would use a Glock? Larry

I think this is the key. All we have here is speculation, because EK would hva had to evaluate and judge it by his own thoughts and impressions.

But, since we're speculating, I'd say he would LOVE a Glock 10mm. My impression of Elmer is that he was imminently practical above all else, and to have a reliable, accurate, and lightweight pistol carrying 15 rounds of 10mm power goodness in a package like the Glock 20, for under $500 he'd be impressed!!! (As am I.)

Malkovich, Malkovich, Malkovich.
Malkovich, Malkovich, Malkovich, Malkovich, Malkovich.

It's the tide...The dismal tide.

Plastic pistols...What's it all comin' too, I ask ya?



Su Amigo,
Dave

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"IN GOD WE TRUST"

Gee, what would Elmer think of the SW Sigma and M&P polymer guns. No one ever seems to mention those?? Funny how that works. Is the SW version so much better looking?? Oh wait how about the HK??

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Still Running Against the Wind

probably would throw the glock in a trash can and would send a letter to smith and wesson demanding that they start prouction of a shortened normal steel version of the 645 for the troops along with demanding that all of the remaining M14's be sent to the troops in afganisitan and iraq for duty asap.

along with demanding that smith and wesson get rid of the keylock on their revolvers and start taking pride in making them again like they did in his day.


yeah I remember that as I just read the book about 2 months ago and it was a case of mistaken identity, the police officer with the .30 luger filled a black guy sitting with his back to him on a fence full of holes thinking he was a horsetheif or something and the inocent cow poke turns around and hits him with one .45 after that in the head and kills the officer with it and he had enough time to prove his innocence to the other officers who arived afterwards, one of which was Keith I believe, before he died from the bleeding caused by the luger.

however you might be thinking of the one with the .38 special though, not the 9mm as I think Keith was going along with a deputy friend to arrest a bad guy, the guy attacked them and he unloaded all 6 in the guy in the chest of a big bad black guy on drugs and then had to reload and put one in the head to fully stop him

and after that he switched to a .44 special DA of some sort, probably a hand ejector which was a gift from Keith I believe

I think that if Mr. Elmer Keith saw a glock pistol would take off his stetson scratch his head, then light a cigar once he was done smoking the cigar he would shake his head with disappointment.

To me a Glock is a shovel. A very good, reliable shovel, but still a shovel. Now if you need a shovel, a Glock would be wonderful to have. But my guns are blue/walnut have cylinders and bolt actions. However, I notice myself shooting my daughters Marlin XS7 in camo/243 alot. Great gun that is pure function. But I don't fantisize over it.

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beaver

Keith liked things that went BANG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Not BOOM!!!!!

ALPO,

True story....one afternoon in the late '90s my agency got a Governor's warrant on a really bad guy in the county. Several of us decided to start the shift by going out to get him. He had a history of using high explosives to boobytrap his labs and was almost always armed with either a sawed off shotgun or sometype of submachine gun.

We drive to the trailer house, dismount the vehicles, and sprint to the doors and windows as quickly as possible to deliver some "shock and awe"....bad guy comes out, armed only with a 60 lb. pitbull which he summarily sics on the deputy running to secure the backdoor. A warning is yelled to the deputy, he turns and fires one round from his Berretta 92 into the dogs forehead at about 8ft. Round bounces off dogs forehead, rolls him end over end once and as he comes up at the deputy's feet he firmly attaches him self to the deputy's calf.

A single round from a 25-5 ended that mess.....bad guy arrested w/o further incident.....
within 10 days or so there were NO 9mm's of any sort being carried by anyone in the Dept......they just sorta went away.....Hummmmm!

hollowpoint or FMJ? and most .45's are FMJ's


isnt that the other way around, boom not bang like a model 29 loaded with .44 mags?

From everything I ever read about Elmer Keith, I think he was pretty set in his ways. I don't think he would have been easily swayed from his revolvers.

James

Well said. Obviously an Elmer Keith observist too. I agree.

I think he would have probably been interested in the 10mm versions...

...and probably would have kaboomed one or three...

I have had 9mm rounds bounce off things as well. One was a Yugo windshield. A co worker had his 9mm rounds bounce off a Jeep door. That is why my opinion of the 9mm round for serious work or self defense is less than favorable.

Still, I feel Mr Keith would have liked most any round or good quality firearm, just as many others here do. Each gun, caliber or combination has a place within the firearm community. It has been years since I personally shot any of my 9mm guns but I think it is a good caliber for those that are unable to handle larger calibers, needs more rounds to compensate for lack of accuracy or that wants to use a less lethal round.

what are you guys doing with 9mm rounds that you did that with them? and theres a story about a 45 bouncing off of a boling pin at 10 feet on here that was a downloaded .45 round so are you guys allowed to carry handloaded rounds or are you using lower velocity rounds like the 147 grains for carry work?

I mean what is causing this, just hitting something at an angle? low velocity? or both?

The Jeep door was hit straight on with direct hits. The driver just shot an officer at a traffic stop. The ammo was factory JHP.

One of the complaints from the Germans during the war was their 9mm rounds were not stopping the US forces but the ammo being used by our side was dropping the Germans instantly.

Gangbangers were using 9mm weapons due to the high capacity allowed by the caliber. They had very few hits and even fewer fatal injuries. Now the gangbangers are using mostly .40 but we are seeing an increase in finding the perps with .45 caliber guns. Both might be explained due to some makers offering cheap guns in those calibers.

ah I see, although the germans under the geneva convention are forbidden from using hollowpoint ammo plus the nato stuff is actually more powerful than the normal 9mm velocity wise, but even thats had reported failures to stop

but its jut hard to fathom that a 9mm would bounce off just like that, I mean its a pistol cartridge not a bb gun round and with a hollowpoint no less, although honestly even my father told me that back in the day he was shooting at one of those glass coke bottles with a .38 special sitting on a fence and it actually bounced off of it and came back at him, not hitting him but close.

I dont know I just like the 9mm round (and the .38 special) as its what I learned to shoot on so its just kinda hard to think of it as underpowered.

"What would ol' Elmer had to say about the Glock?"

I think that would depend on how wide the barrel was.
He always seemed to favor handguns with wide barrels.

Rule 303