Thanks. Because this fictional murder took place on a college campus in one of their buildings. I think their janitors may get stuck with the job. I'm still visualizing the floor. If blood has soaked into wood, it may have to be replaced. Ditto linoleum or other floor covering.

The regents or some deparment head may be heard to complain about the cost and bother. I have one obnoxious guy in mind to do that. He's the heroine's department head, who will prove to be involved in a fraud that led to the murder.

Texas Star: If the body was left there for a while, dripping blood onto the hardwood floor, it's quite possible it would have seeped to the floor below (depending on how he was killed and how long he was there, of course, and whether he died immediately or lingered). You can have a growing blood stain in the ceiling of the dorm room below the crime scene. The janitor can make it worse by pouring water on the blood stain, trying to mop it up.

If it's a carpeted floor, the janitor would try shampooing the carpet, not knowing the stain is actually many times larger underneath the carpet, padding,and floorboards. If it was a gruesome murder, the janitor would probably miss some tissue somewhere, perhaps a ceiling fan or heater vent, which would eventually evidence itself by the smell and insect activity. it is not unusual for fingers, piece of flesh, or skull bits to be left behind.

Did you ever watch Sopranos? The episode where Tony curb stomped some guy who was making rude comments to his daughter? Later in therapy Tony has his legs crossed, and sees a bloody tooth caught in the cuff of his pants. You could do something like that, a tooth caught in between cushions on the couch or an eye peering out from under the bed. Sounds like a fun scene to write!

Crime scene cleanup??


No problem, just ask Marcellus to call The Wolf!

Mayra-

Good advice! But the body was discovered by janitors within two or so hours, and the M.E. removed it after a few hours. It was a stabbing, with 12 wounds, some slashes. The killer seemed furious or scared, and wasn't clinically precise. Probably didn't know the best places to stab for a quick kill with a blade, either.There was an intense struggle, with blood on some furniture and on a wall, where the deceased was pushed.

It was in a campus office building,so no lurid scene of blood dripping through the ceiling to terrify coeds in the room below, in a dorm. That'd play well in a slasher movie, though.

Later, there is a shooting in a convenience store, with more potential for gore to be left behind. One predator is hit in the back of the head with a Federal 158 grain Hydra-Shok .357 from a S&W M-66 (four-inch bbl.), and, to steal a line from, "MacBeth", he promptly departed this world, not standing upon the order of his going. (No, that isn't how I phrased it. Just playing here.) But that hit would have made a mess of his face on exit, I think. I wouldn't want to have to clean the residue off of the nearest display of pop or candy in the store.

I wasn't trying for a really shocking, grisly scene to gross out the reader. It's pretty grim, as-is. Dwells on some contemplative issues with the detective thinking of the deceased's final thoughts and the pain the victim felt. Remarks on the way that the crimson contents of his arteries had stained his body. The detective is a cerebral, introspective sort, able to think outside the box. (I've met some cops who have problems visualizing anything they haven't encountered.)

I try to write the way that the old credo of the USAF Air Policeman read: "I wear my shield of authority with dignity and restraint..." I try to apply that to my prose in emotional, grisly scenes. The details will create the right atmosphere without the need for overkill. And the sex scenes will be descriptive, but tasteful. I like the way that David Lindsey wrote his earlier books, but want a little more accessibility for average readers who don't want to use a dictionary or thesaurus often. And the plot should move a little faster than some of his did. (If you have not read his books like, "Spiral", "Mercy", "A Cold Mind", etc., you are in for a treat if you find them. "Requiem For a Glass Heart" had a murder scene that was masterfully plotted and described.

Faulkner said that modern authors (of his day) tended to write not of the heart, but of the glands. David Lindsey did both, so effectively that you may find yourself crying for some of the characters, even for one murderess. He now uses the byline of Paul Harper and is back in print after seven years. However, his current work didn't impress me as much as his earlier ones. It is still good. He once very graciously autographed all of his books for me, although a store owner wanted only new purchases signed. His best work is stunning in its excelllence, with grace and style that eludes most thriller authors. I hope to do as well, although our styles differ some.

Hey: isn't it likely that there'd be a sign-in log for anyone who entered the crime scene?

Oh: sorry, no I never watched, "The Sopranos." Didn't get that channel.

I don't know what happens at a scene before we get there. When we do, there are no cops around; just a relative or landlord, maybe a neighbor to let us in. One thing my company does is videotape as we enter a scene for the first time, and take tons of pictures before and after. This is to protect ourselves from being accused of stealing. If there's a pile of money or jewelry on the nightstand, we document it, photograph it before and after, and will usually tell next of kin, on tape, that it's there.

One more thing, with your store shooting, there could be evidence anywhere. If we come across say a shell casing or slug, even a bloody knife, we leave it where we found it, photograph it, and call the police in to remove it. They're supposed to deal with it, chain of evidence and all, but occasionally someone might get lazy and ask for it to be bagged up and dropped off. It's been known to happen, tho not to me personally. I can only imagine what a defense attorney might do with that information.

Sometimes people try to clean up before we get there. They think they have the blood all cleaned up because they can't see anything, but if you Luminol the area, it would light up like a Christmas display. Regular soaps and bleach just don't cut it.

We use H2O2 to clean up the ambulances after bloody calls. It's great not only for dissolving blood, but for sorting out what is blood and what isn't.

As you say, it's amazing how much blood and other bodily fluids can fly around. We'll go over the equipment and vehicle three or four times and still find stuff on the fifth.

Our supply section is responsible for deconing portable equipment and they spend a lot of time on cleaning. We have two rooms just set aside for washing and sterilizing equipment.

Plus we red bag disposables and drop them off at hospitals.

We try not to leave wrappers and such at the scene since it contaminates the crime scene. That's also part of how we operate in general since we tend to do as much as possible in the ambulance on the way to the hospital. Other services spend more (too much IMHO) time on scene doing things that should be done on the way to the hospital if they should be done at all.

Just more background in case you decide to have your victim die at the hospital instead of at the scene. <G>

"Hey: isn't it likely that there'd be a sign-in log for anyone who entered the crime scene?"

Yes, if the crime is a biggie. I assign one or two guys to tape the scene off (depends on how big the scene is) and another to keep the log as soon as we determine what we may have. We use a pre-printed sheet. Anybody going inside the tape is put on the log, and everybody on the log who a department member is required to write a report about what they did there. The log is also submitted as a report.

When we adopted the report rule ("You go in, you gotta write about it."), it really cut down the number of officers that wanted to go in to rubberneck. I remember with pride the first time I got to say, "With all due respect, Sheriff, get the f*** out of my crime scene!"

Thanks, Buff! I was concerned with rubbernecking cops, too. Good point.

I guess the detective who admitted the faculty girl to the scene will be able to explain it in writing. He has an unusually high case clearance rate and gets along with his lieutenant, who is his department mentor and former trainer when he was a rookie. And this teacher will discover the reason for the murder when she realizes what was taken from the scene.

She will also be a very valuable source of information about other faculty members who might have a motive to kill the dead prof. And she's going to become the hero's lady, hopefully for a series of books.

Fortunately, I know enough about her professional specialty (paleoanthropology) to make her seem very real. She won't be just a dumb blonde with a "killer" (pun intended ) bod.
I like to create compex, believable characters and situations.

I sort of half based her on a college teacher whom I had for a Primate Behavior class. She looked great in miniskirts, but was kind of a PC witch. The fictional girl will have a much better sense of humor and be quite witty and perceptive.

After a career of more than 28 years in the NYPD, I can attest to the 100% accuracy of Buff's statement quoted above. With respect to crime scenes in NYC, they're generally "released" fairly quickly, usually immediately after processing by the Crime Scene Unit or, for lesser crimes, by the Borough Evidence Collection Unit. Hope this helps.

Very interesting post. I can't imagine some of the stuff detailed here. About the worst smell I've come across is a squirrel that my dogs chewed on that was left in the hot summer sun for about 3 days. The smell was unbelievable... I was gagging just trying to put it in a plastic bag to get rid of it... with a shovel...

I can't imagine what a dead body smells like that's been sitting for a week or so....

Very BAD!!!! Like the most rotten meat you could imagine.

One of my ROTC instructors said that one of the worst things about war is the smell of the bodies.

I can imagine how ripe they get. David Lindsey had a scene where one female investigator was "allowed" to be the cop who checked out a body lying under a house.

This is a hard thread for me to read so i skipped most of it, but I have an experience so I will answer. If I'm just repeating what others have said, I apologize.

A few years ago a friend of mine and his two roommates were murdered by their landlord with a fireplace poker. He was caught within a day and charged, and four or five days later my friends and I were allowed inside to clean up and help my friend's mother collect her sons belongings. We made sure to clean up everything we could and lay a few rugs on the carpet before she got there so she wouldn't have to see the stains.

The house itself wasn't our concern, as far as we cared it could burn down and we'd all be happy, but we didn't want his mother to have to face that while gathering her son's property and since it was the landlord that did it, he certainly wasn't going to be cleaning anything up...

So, it was four or five days after the arrest before we were cleared to go in and remove his stuff. The detective who let us in didn't oppose our cleaning for decency's sake. If the landlord hadn't confessed immediately to the crime, I suspect it would have been a while longer and more thoroughly examined.

yes it works but it's still a mess and yes using a hose line out side was SOP were I worked

Why can't everybody just get along?
Blessings

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TEXAS, by GOD

Hi:
Hick Town USA: the crime scene stays secured until all evidence is photographed, and packaged by the Crime Scene Techs". The lead investigator is the only one that can release the crime scene. There are private indivuals/companies that the owner or insurance can call for the "Cleanup".

A few years ago a guy I worked with killed himself with a s&w 500 to the head. He had a lot of mental issues and was on some prescribed medicine that probably made it worse. Anyway, his girlfriend found him 3 days later. I couldnt imagine seeing something like that, let alone the smell. I was also with my stepdad when he passed away, you never forget that. Its not like it is on tv whatsoever.
My highschool health class took a trip to our local funeral home my junior year too. It was very informative and interesting to me. Theres literally a toilet at the end of the stainless table. The formaldyhyde is what got me though, that smell.

I have been to hundreds of these blood and gore scenes. I always put on my "booties", just to save my shoes, made my observations and left. How long to hold the scene and who was to clean up was not the Medical Examiner's problem!

medxam

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Doc Garrett
Dead Man's Doctor

Don't forget the impossibly beautiful men who get away with coming to work every day with a three day growth...

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Suicide in the family? My Brother in Law got the privilege when someone in his wife's family did it with a shotgun.