Shooting steel shot in older shotguns

Shotguns is my weakest gun knowledge area. As a youth I lived with shotguns and hunting everything with them. That was before steel shot. I moved west and dont use them. I do still own a armfull, all are no newer than about early 1980s and back.
What do I need to know and do or not do? I have several good ones like a model 37 ithica supream skeet in 20 guage that is unfired that I bought in 1984, and a browning BSS 12 guage I bought in 1978. I shot that just on one outing with lead shot.
I also own a real old winchester 97 and a real old remington 31 that was dads. To get techinal, I even own a first year or so T/C contender with the .45 colt/410 barrel. I just now started to research the consiquences of shooting steel shot in these guns and the more I read the more confused I get! What do you knowledgable shotgunners say to do?

I've heard it's not a good idea. I have fired exactly two rounds of steel in my early '50s manufactured M12 Winchester, almost 30 years ago. Still have the rest of that box of shells. These old shotguns mean a lot to me, and I don't want to mess them up. I understand there are several non-toxic loads available now that will not damage the older guns. If I ever hunt waterfowl again, that's what I'll use.
Jim

Contact the manufacturer, but in general, don't shoot steel in older guns.

There are other shot substances that might work, like bismuth or tungsten, I guess. Someone who knows more will be along, I hope.

You have some really good guns there. Don't risk ruining them!

I remember hearing back then not to use steel in mod or full choked guns ,but that was when I stopped hunting waterfowl so I never really looked into it.I know I wouldn't use it in my old Browning

do not use the steel shot in the Browning S X S as it will eventually crack the solder joint of the barrels. unless you can find out from the maker I wouldn't use steel shot in anything that has a modified or tighter choke. there is other ammo that can be used in the tighter chokes but it is quite a bit more expensive

No. Steel is not compressible and any restriction in the barrel eg, choke, causes a lot of strain on the barrel. Older guns were not made to take that kind of pressure.

It is not good to shoot steel shot in any of the older shotguns, if you need to shoot them look into bismuth or some other of the shot recommended for the older guns. As for me I would never shoot steel shot in any of my older guns. You can buy any number of the modern shotguns that will allow shooting the steel snot. Why take a chance on ruining an older gun? Buy a cheap, currently made Mossberg, what could you do to hurt it anyway?
Glen

I think your stuck with bismuth as an alternative to lead

Remington says not in their guns made before 1950 and even then in chokes modified or more open and #2 or smaller.

I'd call the manufacturers first but you can go to shotgunworld.com and ask or just read the forums. That is the best site of know of for questions like this. Very knowledgeable people there.

Thanks everyone. I will call browning and ithica soon. Is everybodys old shotguns obsolete now? Sure wouldnt know it by checking the prices on guns like mine in the adds! Do peple quit shooting the old parkers, LC smiths, winchester 21s and model 12s or what? How can they sell them for a big price if they are next to useless with the new steel shot and outlawing lead shot that they were built for?

I use mine for clay target games.Seems to be the only shotgunning I do anymore and they still allow lead.

feralmerril said:

Thanks everyone. I will call browning and ithica soon. Is everybodys old shotguns obsolete now? Sure wouldnt know it by checking the prices on guns like mine in the adds! Do peple quit shooting the old parkers, LC smiths, winchester 21s and model 12s or what? How can they sell them for a big price if they are next to useless with the new steel shot and outlawing lead shot that they were built for?

Click to expand...

As far as I know in NC we can use lead shot for everything except waterfowl. I don't know of any place that requires steel for clay games. I am trying my best to wear out my old SXS's before lead shot is outlawed. Maybe somebody will come up with some kind of shot cup to use steel in old guns. Larry

they haven't been rendered useless yet.
they've had a few decades to play with alternatives.
The only reason steel shot made the scene was because of its relative ease of production. since then they have cooked up many more alternatives to lead, most because steel shot sucks and still some to keep fine old arms in the game.
I haven't kept up with it, however where I left off Bismuth / tin alloys were one of the solutions tailored to old guns. I'm not sure if tungsten matrix also qualified but it may have. You can probably do a good bit of gumshoe work over at the ballistic products site.
Ballistic Products
Investing a good 20 minutes there should yield a few alternatives to both lead and steel.

Unfortunately it's a bit of a problem with the older guns, and some of newer manufacture.

35Rem's general rule about post 1950 is pretty good, and then only in guns in good shape and with at most a modified choke.

In addition to the steel, which of course is not as compressible as lead (therefore the need to use less choke to prevent a ring bulge), there's the issue of pressure.

Most of the steel loads operate at pressures higher than older guns were designed for, because a lot of folks want as much speed as they can get out of steel, and because of the need to cycle autoloaders.

I'd be willing to bet if you call Ithaca and Browning, they'll warn you off of using steel in those guns. Most do, including Beretta, for guns a lot of people have shot a lot of steel out of. A lawyer thing, you know.

Myself, if I had a BSS from from the 70s and an Ithaca 37 from the 80s, I wouldn't worry about using steel, AS LONG AS THE TIGHTEST CHOKE CONSTRICTION WAS MOD. Preferably more open than that. Both of those are pretty strong guns. And steel will pattern more tightly out of a given choke constriction than lead. In most cases a Mod. choke is going to perform more like a Full when you are using steel.

I'd also look for lighter loads--there's no need for 1500 FPS, even with steel.

I guess my real question is why do you need to use steel shot? Of course you have to for waterfowl, but there are very few upland/small game areas that require it now. Most ranges allow lead as well.

There are alternatives to steel, and one of the better ones is Nice Shot. Bismuth has not been available for a good while now--manufacturing issues with the family owned company that made it.

Get ready for major sticker shock if you want to shoot something other than steel or lead...

- KentTungstenMatrix --Ballistic Products

here ya go .. tungsten matrix loads for your seasoned scatter gun pleasure

The safest and best patterning of the new non-toxic shot out there safe for old guns is the Fiocchi Tundra.

It's good stuff, but very expensive.

If you look down the barrel of an older gun that steel shouldn't have been used in but was anyhow- you will see grooves/gouges from just in front of the chamber all the way down the barrel and you can likely feel those gouges in the end of the bore near the muzzle with your finger. I've seen many fine old shotguns that have this kind of damage from steel shot.

If you treasure your old friend, stay away from both steel and bismuth and go to any alternative that states either on the box or in literature that it is safe for vintage guns that accept modern SAMMI ammunition (no damascus barrels or short chambers). Not all sintered/matrix/polymer tungsten shot is the same.

1950 is a bit of a stretch...here's what I understand about the use of steel in older guns and this has worked for me for 30 years: first it depends on what you are calling an older gun. When they first started using steel to make barrels for shotguns was about the time they invented nitro or smokeless powder, around 1895 or so. The steel at that time was very expensive to make and hard to get and it was known as "fluid" or decarbonized steel and it was soft by todays standards. In part because the use of certain alloys that drastically improved the strenght of steel hadn't been used yet. Interestingly enough, to this day it is still debated whether Krupp from Germany or Sir Joseph Whitworth from England invented the decarbonizing process which is really what made steel alot more useful.
Somewhere around 1913 or 14 someone decided to try adding a metal called vanadium to the steel and this changed everything. Back then the trade name for this alloy steel was "chromox" and it was just about as good a gun barrel steel for shotguns as we have, even today. It is very resistant to corrosion and has a high tensile strength.
The problem with steel shot is that as stated above in a previous post it doesn't compress. The older shotguns were made in a time when ammunition was poor by todays standards of patterning. The one piece plastic wad hadn't been invented yet and so to get a usable pattern that you could hunt with and kill game at long range the shotguns were choked rather tight and many were what we call back bored today.
Older shotguns with steel capable of shooting smokeless powder {which is really all the good american made name brand guns } can shoot steel shot as long as the choke is not more than modified. Some older {20's and 30's} era guns should be checked for exactly what restrictions they really do have because its not the final bore diameter at the muzzle that matters...its the actual bore diameter minus the muzzle diameter that sets the amount of restriction. Too much restriction and you are asking for damage. With the cost of a slightly used 870 to beat around the duck blind these days I really dont know why anyone would even worry with trying to shoot steel in an older gun. There is a bigger concern with older shotguns too...the chambers weren't always the length they are today. Up until around 1924 or so the standard shotgun chamber lengths were 2 5/8" for 12ga, 2 9/16" for 16ga and 2 1/2" for the twenty. Firing modern length shells in an older short chambered shotgun will have a pressure spike that at best just kicks like a mule but sometimes cracks the old dried out stock and could blow the action. Proceed with caution or why not just buy an 870 to shoot steel???

Thanks for that.

In Wa State, lead is allowed in most areas that is not WFDW land. Most ranges will only allow lead as they recycle it.

Waterfowl is managed federally in conjunction with state level government due to their migratory nature. So, every state is required to use steel for waterfowl. The argument, if I remember correctly, is certain aquatic birds will eat small pebbles (or toxic lead shot) in order to help digest their food.