Well, I'll share my sad story as a caution for other forum members. I recently purchased a sweet 4" 629-3 from another forum member (great gentleman, but I'll withhold his name unless he wishes to chime in!). The gun was shipped from his FFL to my FFL. Unfortunately his FFL did not see fit to ship it with signature requirement or tracking capablilities. The gun was (apparently) never delivered to my FFL. I have contacted the local post office here and they were able to confirm from a label # that the package arrived in their postoffice on March 1, but from that point on they have no record of what happened. They cannot tell me whether the package was ever delivered, delivered to the wrong address, or not delivered at all. The local post office had me file a report with the postal inspector which I have done (still waiting to hear back from them). I have checked repeatedly with my FFL to make sure the gun wasn't delivered and misplaced over there (they swear that it wasn't). The lady at the post office says that the most likely possibility is that it was delivered to the wrong address. As I see it the other 2 possibilities are that a postal employee has it, or that someone at my FFL either has it or lost it. Needless to say, it is extremely frustrating for both me and the seller. Fortunately the package was insured, but we cannot file a postal insurance claim for 15 days from the shipping date, and after that who knows how long it will take to collect on the claim. All in all a big bummer, but I guess its why we buy insurance. My lesson and advice I would give to anyone would be to make sure that if you ship something to insist on paying the little extra to get tracking capabilities and signature requirement on delivery.

I've never lost anything of great value shipping with the U.S.P.S., but I've had enough bad experiences with them that I will no longer trust them to deliver anything of value. I am willing to pay the extra money and have FedEx or U.P.S. get it done right. That's a sad commentary on the state of the USPS.

*
Big bowl of stupid. The address is probably obvious, and so is the need to have had delivery confirmation/tracking/something.

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NHI, 10-8.

WOW, I hate to hear that. I've had my own horror stories with the USPS, but nothing this severe..

Good luck with your issue as I hope you get it resolved to your satisfaction.

joe

It may show up still.
I sold a gun to a lady in Colorado about a year ago. After 2 weeks I called her and asked if she were still interested in the gun or had second thoughts. She told me that she sent a MO vis the USPS WITH delivery confirmation. I asked for the tracking number and yes, it showed DELIVERED. Well, she was all set to have a claim put in with the PO for losing the MO, since I never received nor cashed it. Wouldn't you know it showed up almost 3 weeks later in my mailbox Perhaps it went to the wrong address?

PS. I sent a long gun via Fedex also about a year ago, they broke the stock in transit. The gun was well packaged.

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Sure you did

Several points don't jive-
Was it insured for over $200? If so, it must be signed for.
If they can tell you when it arrived at their PO, it had to have a tracking number. Probably the insurance label number. So, even if delivered to the wrong address, they had to get a signature IF insured for over 200.

Hate to bust your bubble, but here's my score:

Combined shipments for both UPS and FedEx, in and out is around 50.
USPS shipments, in and out is WELL over 1000!
UPS Loss= 1
FedEx Loss= 1
USPS Loss= 0

Most of my mail is Priority.
Registered Mail for expensive stuff. NOTHING but a live courier is safer than Reg Mail.

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Regards,
Lee Jarrett

I ship and receive a lot of "stuff" USPS Priority Flat rate boxes. The best deal around. Not only a tracking number, e mail alerts for both sender and receiver, cheap insurance and delivery confirmation/signature. If your FFL did use this method than I would question him as to why?? Folks continue to hammer the USPS, IMO with the amount of material they move and the constraints put on them (they are semi Federal) they do an outstanding job.

Then there are those that hammer UPS and FedEX, so I guess it's back to the Pony Express or hand deliver it yourself.

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Still Running Against the Wind

That is the gospel. If it absolutely has to get there Registered Mail is the way to go. I have sent jewelry worth well into 5 figures through USPS using registered mail. Usually the insurance costs more the the mode of delivery. It is signed for at each and every stop, locked up overnight and signed for at delivery.

The best and cheapest way to send a long gun is USPS in my opinion. The sorting tracks at UPS and FedEx are not designed for the long boxes that rifles are shipped in. Occasionally one will get hung up at a turn and all of the other packages build up behind it, something has to give, it is usually the wrist on the rifle stock. I had a beautiful Swedish Mauser arrive with a cracked wrist one time using UPS. From now on I request the shipper uses USPS.

bob

I have found a package in a utility trailor at the bottom level of my shop. It wasn't a gun but I sure wasn't happy to find it after the rain. My former mail lady would put "attempt to deliver" notices in the mail box saying she tried to deliver to the door a package. My wife is home everyday and is for the most part informed that a package is coming that day. The new mail lady is great, equipt with dog bisquets and a smile. Doeboy

I have gotten all my mail at my P.O. Box for years, I request USPS delivery, when the yellow card appears in my box I go around to the counter and ther's my order. So far, so good.

Sent via a ffl, tracking is included in price with Priority Mail.
Delivery confirmation is a no-brainer, and worth the few extra pennies for the peace of mind.

+1

I have had plenty of troubles with UPS. The worst issue was when I sent a semi-auto slide (S&W 6946) for black cerakote and new sights in an attempt to make my own 5943 SSV. Watched the tracking number stall out and then nothing. They tried really hard to present good customer service without actually doing anything to help me. 30 days later, nothing. I eventually had to file a claim and that drug out for months. Cost me my insurance check and $75 to replace both the slide and new sights. Switched over to USPS Priority Mail and have never had an issue since.

[QUOTE=handejector;136397690]Several points don't jive-
Was it insured for over $200? If so, it must be signed for.
If they can tell you when it arrived at their PO, it had to have a tracking number. Probably the insurance label number. So, even if delivered to the wrong address, they had to get a signature IF insured for over 200.


I agree that something doesn't jive and the lady at the post office admitted as much. It was insured for more than $200. Apparently (?) they did not ship it Priority and obviously not registered. The only number that the shipper had to allow any sort of tracking was the "label number". Using this label number, the post office was able to confirm that the package was logged in to the Mesa, AZ post office on March 1. From that point on it is a black hole. The postal employee told me that normally it should have been logged as undelivered, or delivered or SOMETHING, but there are no further entries.

I'm not bashing the postal service in general, and I don't doubt that REGISTERED mail is a very safe delivery method...clearly thats not what happened here though!

He'd have to be very inexperienced at shipping to use Parcel Post instead of Priority. In the 3 and 4 lb range, there is usually not a dollar's worth of difference.

It sounds to me like it is still at Mesa, or got stolen there.

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Regards,
Lee Jarrett

If there was a crime committed I sure hope the postal inspector investigates it and finds the individual. Does anyone know how aggressively they might be expected to pursue something like this?

Got to chime in here, I am still waiting for a pair of eyeglasses that were shipped usps on december 2 they arrived in dallas on december 3 and left for abilene on the same date, I have yet to recieve them. Should be able to get 140 miles in 97 days! From reading the previous posts it appears the only safe way to get something delivered is to take it yourself!

What has worked for us is using the USPS webb site for shipping. It prints out a very professional shipping lable, verifies the adress, and provides a conformation number at no cost. As has been said, if you insure for more than 200.00, a signature is required, and is better that signature conformation, which provides no insurance, and is often close in cost. My FFL is a LEO, and has a police car parked in front of his home. It is known that he is a gun dealer, and that his parents live next door by the post office, however, we have had guns delivered to someone a few streets over, and have also had guns (by the same individual) left "leaning against the house." In his second conversation with this same guy, my man asked him about leaving the parcel outside, and he said that he figured that because he was a cop, that no one would bother it!-even after all that went before. Then my dealer explained to him that they have people breaking into patrol cars on a regular basis in an attempt to steal the guns in the trunk. It still comes down to the individuals that handle the mail, but I'll stick with the post office, there's just no comparison in price and convenience.

BCD-postal inspectors have earned the reputation of being the guys you don't want to fool with. They are known to be very persistant and diligent. Flapjack.

I've heard that the BATFE can "find" guns that got "lost" in transit. They have a reputation for solving these cases. Sometimes just the mention of their agency can work miracles. Best of luck finding your gun. I would be very ticked off.

Sir, I’m sure you do a great deal more shipping of high dollar items, than I do, I’m glad that you have received such good service from the U.S.P., yet based on my experiences I will not trust the USPS to deliver either valuable or important items.

Be happy you guys do not have the post office I have to contend with. The deliver mail one day early in the am and then we may not see another delivery for a couple days.

I sent out five things a while back. Got three of them back to me in three weeks, torn, wet, and crumpled up.

Mailed a certified letter with a large check in it. Paid $14 to get it 180 miles from here overnight. Tracked it to the address I sent it and it arrived 9 days later.

USPS refunded my fee for overnight delivery.

Got a gun part I ordered from FL. Tracking it, it went from FL to Memphis TN, then to Little Rock, AR, then to Dallas TX, on to New Orleans, then to Texarkana and finally to my house. Only took 2 weeks.

Our post office changes employees very often. Our route drivers change every couple weeks. The PO closes daily from 11am til 1pm for lunch and closed on weekends. One of my retirement checks gets printed on the last day of the month. It leaves NJ the same day. I get it between the third and the tenth of the month. My second retirement check was put on direct deposit to take it out of the hands of the USPS.

Agree with the Bear on this one. What do you expect from a
government run agency these days.
Hope you get your claim remedied quickly though i doubt
that will happen.


chuck

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They hold no Quarter

Do not give up hope quite yet.

It is possible that it was addressed wrong and that it will be returned to the FFL sender.

I once was waiting to receive $2000 in Money orders. I told the sender to address it to me c/o my company.

The letter letter was sent with a track number and made it to my local post office, but I never got it and the Post Office had no idea where it was.

About two weeks later the sender got it back.

He had forgotten to write in the c/o line.

Also, always insist on insurance.
Unless you specify otherwise in writing, it could easily turn out that the seller's responsibility ends when he puts the item in the hands of the shipper. In such a case, if the item is lost the buyer is out of luck unless the item is insured.

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Buy American
Vote Responsibly

One time I ordered a S&W 686 CS-1 three inch from a FFL in Orkahoma to be shipped to my FFL in Texas, I live less than 300 miles from OKC in a Major Hub City. I sent a Postal MO over night mail, return reciept requested and had it "to be signed for". Several days later the FFL Seller called and said the MO had not arrived. I went to the local PO and discussed this with the Post Master. I was very nice and mature about this issue in discussing it withh him. He said I could file for a lost letter in x number of days. I told him, "No problem, I will file a conplaint with my US Congressmen tomarrow morning and ask that a Congressionl be opened to the theft or loss of US Mail and the indeference of the US Postal Authorities.
The Post Master from my local PO called at 1615 hrs that afternoon and said that the Letter/MO had been found in the OKC Mail Room and that it had been put in the Postal Carrier's Bag. I ask that it be delivered that day and it was hand delivered at 2000 hrs to the FFL's Residence that evening. Working the US Government I know how terrified Managers are of Congressional Letters of Inquiry to a Federal Agency. My agency would immediately transmit the letter by fax to the Regional office from Washington and the regional office would submitt it to the local Agency for a response in less than 24 hours. It always got the attention of everyone from the Agency Director to the lowest Ranger who was mentioned. If you had done nothing wrong, it wasn't a big deal, but if you had really scewed up, you were in the hurt locker.

I can tell you about the two .223, folding Stock AKs I ordered back in the 80s and were shipped through the UPS Hub in Dallas and disappeared. A call to the FBI and subsiquent investigation that resulted in the arrest, prosecution of approximately 20 people out of that Dallas Hub and how the tracking Number and insurance worked real well in that instance. The FFL Seller had two new guns shipped the following day that the FBI notified him of the Arrest of the Subjects and the probable loss of the rifles. Crooks were stealing Guns and Jewerly out of that hub.

Rule 303

Thats good to hear Flapjack...if there was any wrongdoing in this case, I hope to get a bulldog that gets to the bottom of it!

I may not have any resolution on this for a while, but I'll try to keep you all appraised of how it turns out.

i have noted that my post concerning the low priority given by policy to lost package cases was deleted!

i responded to that action while still very annoyed and am now redacting my post and overreaction, apologies to any who might have read my post before i came back and edited it!

I've shipped over a thousand parcels with the USPS over the past two years. I pay .85 to get a delivery confirmation for a $20 tool. I can't see shipping a firearm in the manner described, but then I suppose just because someone has an FFL doesn't mean they have common sense. Hopefully it turns up if some pressure is put on them, I would certainly think that someone higher up would certainly be interested in the fact that someone may be stealing firearms.

I don't use FEdex, got two deliveries from them in the past year that were heavily damaged, a generator that had the top of the fuel tank smashed in despite the "roll cage" that it had, and a medium duty horizontal band saw that had both ends smashed, the motor plate bent on one end with a cooling fin broken off the motor, and the blade tension adjusting handle shattered on the other. The packaging was broken open and the parts shoved back inside, but open cardboard boxes were taped over the outside of the box and about a 1/2" of saran wrap was used around the entire thing. I've had no problems with UPS on any firearms and the biggest problem with USPS is they keep delivering the mail for the guy across the street to me...

Hey Guys, I'm the seller and my FFL was the shipper. I packaged and addressed the gun myself in a USPS flat rate Priority mailing box. I told them to insure it for X amount of dollars, which they did. I also told them to make sure it was sent to require signature confirmation of delivery and a tracking number which they didn't evidently. The "label number" shows the gun as scanned into the Mesa, Arizona P.O. at 4:01 A.M. on 3-2-12. From there, just like the OP states, its a black hole. The gun is either (A) laying in a corner in the Mesa P.O., (B) delivered to the wrong address - I have no idea how someone could have done something like that because I know how it was addressed, (C) in the back of a couriers truck, (D) at the intended FFL's location (E) stolen by a postal employee or, because it didn't have to be signed for, stolen by someone in the FFL's shop. I guaranfreakintee you that come Monday, the Mesa P.O. will be visited by the BATF if I have to fly out there myself and start a holy war. There is absolutely no way this should have happened and I'm about as pizzed as a momma grizzly bear dealing with an unwanted visitor! The owner of my FFL will also be getting a visit from me for allowing his shipping employee to do as he pleases and ignoring the wishes of the customers. I really have no idea how to describe how mad I am due to the limitations on the use of certain language on this forum. If there's anyone on this forum in the Mesa area that thinks they can help us out, I'll personally offer a $50 reward to the person that does. At least the OP has a nice original box which I sent separately to his home address !

Delivery confirmation just shows the item was "delivered" somewhere, not necessarily to the correct address, it happened to me as I described earlier. Sending something of value without requiring a signature is a recipe for disaster.
Also delivery confirmation could mean the package was left on the porch, at the side of the garage, etc. Easy pickins for a thief.

Hope this gets resolved for both parties.

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Sure you did

I just received a Highway Patrolman on my C&R. It came insured, priority, required a signature of someone at least 21 years of age and I had a tracking # that told me when to expect delivery. Cost from Utah to Louisville area was under $23. The carrier asked my name when she had trouble deciphering my scrawl. Said she was taking a picture of the signature, I assume to prove delivery. You couldn't ask for a smoother transaction.

In op's problem, I'd point the first finger at the shipping ffl if he did not get a tracking number & ship with adult sig required. I'd wager $20 that when the cage gets rattled the gun shows up.

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God spelled backwards is dog.

The last part of your post interests me but please tell me how rattling the cage of the shipping FFL would solve anything when it obviously made it to the Mesa P.O.? I understand the shipping FFL didn't ship it properly to begin with but someone scanned it as recieved in Mesa. Believe me, I'm not trying to sound sarcastic in any way (I invite any and all suggestions) but, I need to know which avenue to venture down in order to shake the right cages hard!

My post wasn't clear and I'm just voicing opinion as I'm not it the business, didn't stay in a Holiday Inn last night, but have received several C&R firearms without a hitch.

It's the shipper that caused the mess by not getting a tracking number and adult signature. He's guilty of ignorance. I expect the larceny/malfeasance occurred in Mesa and since there are numbers and a paper trail to Mesa that is a solid place for an investigation to begin. I've never had to instigate a postal inspection for lost merchandise but I expect you and the shipper will have to file the claim jointly. The cage rattling hopefully will come internally from the postal inspectors trying to find a missing handgun.

I've always been under the impression that a missing firearm is considered pretty high priority. You might mention it was a .44 magnum and refer to Dirty Harry when you file your claim. A big bad gun like that gone missing should cause a bureaucrat to quiver.

I'm not overly confident the gun will turn up, therefore I'm limiting my wager to $20. If I thought it was a sure thing I would hypothetically wager more. Good luck.

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God spelled backwards is dog.

I purchased a S&W from one our members and the mail carrier delivered it to my Ffl's neighbor because he did not answer the door quickly enough!! FFL went immediately to post office and has a" serious discussion" about this occurring.

As I indicated in the original post the seller, PA Reb, has been nothing but a gentleman throughout this ordeal and I know he's as upset as I am.

My only update so far: I called the 877 number provided for me by the lady at the Mesa PO to report this to the postal inspector service. I got a flunkie on the phone that took my info and said someone would contact me. Within 24 hrs I got a call but it was not from a postal inspector, but rather from a dude at my own local Phoenix zip code post office ( was somehow referred there based on my home address that I had provided.). He listened and of course said there wasn't anything he could do but wished me luck! We'll see if the actual postal inspector contacts me or not. I hope cages get rattled and expect that they will, but I'm not optimistic at this point that any amount of rattling will result in finding the gun.

Don't give up the boat just yet Brad. Once I get to my supervisor friend at my local P.O. that actually shipped the gun, the Mesa, Arizona office may be in a state of lock down!! I also have a close friend that works out of the Pittsburgh BATF office that I know loves this kind of thing. Someone has some answering to do and it WILL happen!

Hold the offender to task. A thief is the lowest form of trash I can think of!!! If mistakes were made, then someones' RRRRR's must be sent down the road!!

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Go big or stay home

i didn't realize you were in Pgh, i used to have several contacts in the service that I've worked with and may have been able to assist. not now though.

Here's a little update from me, the seller. I called and was able to get a Postal Inspector on the phone who works in the Mesa area. After telling her the story and passing along package numbers etc., she said she would call me back. Later on that day, she called back and told me that she, along with the P.O. supervisor, interviewed the delivery person. She told me this person told them that due to the large volume of paper and boxed mail going into that FFL's shop, he just dropped it all off and didn't get the required signatures. He told them the package was indeed delivered. When I asked if this was standard P.O. policy and what would happen to the carrier, she told me it would be handled according to P.O. employee policies. She then said that as far as the P.O. is concerned, the package has been delivered and is somewhere in that shop or someone stole it out of the shop. If it isn't found, we have to file the insurance claim and my FFL has to file an interstate theft / loss form with the BATF. I passed this info onto the OP who is going to try and get the Postal Inspector and hopefully a BATF agent to go to the shop with him. What a load of dung this has all been!

Good Luck.

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NRA Pistol/Rifle Inst. RSO

USPS......

When it works, there ain't nothing like it.

When it doesn't work-----they just don't care.

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Life Member NRA Since 1985

No signature, it was never delivered, period.

Skip all the union games and contact your Congressional Representative.

Latest update for anyone interested: I talked to the manager at my FFL dealer where the gun was or was not delivered. He says that they have complained in the past about the postal carrier leaving packages in unattended areas without signatures, so this is not the first time that this carrier has done so. I hate to see someone lose a job but holy cow!... I have gone online to the postal inspector website and filed an official complaint. I doubt that the gun will be successfully recovered at this point, but hopefully they will at least prevent future problems such as this, and maybe even catch a criminal. I have not (yet) contacted my congressman, but if I don't see some sort of further action by the postal inspector service, I will not hesitate to do so.

Having read the updates from PA Reb and BCDWYO, it is pretty clear that BATFE, USPS and local law enforcement are going to have a field day at BCDWYO's end of things. Guns unattended, signatures not gathered when required; I can see the various enforcement groups rubbing their hands in a big pot of glee. What a cluster, and I'm not talking Honey Nut.

this is the kind of thing the press loves...

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is it just me?

Sorry about your gun. But don't be too sure UPS is the hot setup. I have a friend who works for UPS, he also collects antique toys and sends/recieves everything USPS. He says they are cheaper, and the items have less chance of being broken.

My horror stories are with Fedex and I hear UPS is worse. Never had a problem with USPS and I have sent many valuable packages.

Although, I did get a K22 Outdoorsman left on my porch by USPS with the hammer hanging outside the carton and a copy of my C&R license taped on top of the box. Hmm, wonder what's in this package.


Charlie

Shipping handguns through the USPS is illegal. They will accept long rifles and shotguns, but not handguns.

What? It most certainly is legal for a FFL holder to ship handguns via the USPS .

Only from an FFL to a manufacturer or another FFL licensed dealer.

Not from FFL to private individual or individual to FFL or manufacturer

DMM 601 Mailability (see section 12)

USPS Firearm Shipping Regulations -

PLEASE.....if you know NOT about what you speak....don't speak!