Please note that this is in reference to Water Based varnish.

The wife and I are going to stain and varnish a French door with water based products. I'm smart enough to practice on some scrap pieces and the results, while good, are not great. The problem is seeing brush strokes in the varnish. I've tried sanding lightly with 220 between coats with no improvement, so I sanded a little harder and it cut through the stain. See why I practice

I watched a very good 10 minute video on You Tube where a guy discussed staining/varnishing and at the very end told how to get brush marks out. But he only spent about 6 seconds on it and didn't go into any detail. Something about an orbital sander with a Scotch Pad on it (not sandpaper).

I know the solution is probably the right brushing technique to avoid the brush marks in the first place, but I just don't have it

So, any suggestions for when you're done and the color, evenness, and gloss look good but you see streaks/strokes in the varnish???

Thanks,

John Gross

Home

Good luck

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Still Running Against the Wind

John I assume you don't have spray equipment. I have used two products in spray rattle cans with good results but they aren't water based. One is Zinsser Bulls Eye Shellac and the other is Deft lacquer spray. I think you can also get some Polyurethane spray. I think any of these will give you good results with a minimum of work. Don

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"Don't worry be happy"

Part of the key is in the brush you use. You need to get one with bristles designed for the finish type you are using.
You may even want to try application with a sponge type brush.
You also need to load the brush up and use very few strokes in applying the finish. Use the tip of the brush to finish off. I usually do 3 coats with 180 grit sanding after the first coat and 220 grit after the 2nd. Then either 220 or 0000 steel wool after the last. The last brush strokes of each coat should be with the grain.

I'd strongly recommend you give a foam('sponge') brush a try. In my experience they don't leave any marks. They're very inexpensive, also.

Andy

Actually applying water based varnish is 180 degrees different than applying an alkyd or oil based varnish. With the old traditional oil varnishes you cut the product with some thinner or an oil such as Penetrol, I use a little of both. You used long strokes and the last one, the tipping out, was long and straight. With water based varnishes you just put it on a leave it alone, the more you brush it the worse it looks. A drop of water in it may help it to stay wet a little longer.

A good brush helps too.

Big question????? Why are you using politically correct, Al Gore endorsed varnish?. You will never make water based varnish look as good as oil based unless you spray it, and then it still doesn't have quite the right look.

My $.02............38 years in the paint business.

Another thing...guys on You Tube are usually full of it. Maybe not so much on guns as paint and varnish application.

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LIVE FROM THE DAWGHOUSE

My advise is stick the brush into the garbage can - take your "clean" hand - stick it into the varnish and then start rubbing your wood until you're happy with the results - then move to the next section. When done make one more pass over the entire project. I will say that Sheepdawg is correct IMHO that water based varnish is not worth your time and effort. FWIW.


Pete

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Don't tread on me

When I'm forced to use waterbase finishes I apply them with foam cut from uphostery foam. You can cut it with an electric carving knife to any size or shape desired. Over working the finish can leave marks so try to apply and smooth with has few steps as possible.With a little practice you will leave no marks.

Do not use steel wool with waterbased finishes! I will leave rust spots in the finish.
Grey Scotch brite can be used for rubbing down the finish.

It's best to just apply and ignore for 24 hours. Then light sand or Scotchbrite before you apply the next coat.

Bruce

Water based varnish makes as much sense as kosher ham.
As far as application-that's a job for one of my minions.

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Forum consigliere

"If" you are insistent on the water based varnish, get a "good" one. Varvathane is one. If you want that "Hand Rubbed" varnish look, don't use water based varnish. Talk to a furniture re-finisher and they will tell you to use a spray on finish, or something like a tru-oil finish applied with the fingers and rubbed out with the heal of your hand, dried in a dust free room, and lightly rubbed with 0000 steel wool in between coats and put on 6 to 8 coats, then after it dries out for 7-10 days, make up a solution of rottenstone and mineral oil and with a soft wool pad rub out until it has that "hand rubbed" glow. Getting the right look isn't always easy.

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H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

Second that big time! I use a number of different finishes, and the water based stuff I find is both difficult to apply and does not give either the protection or the 'look' of a good varnish job.
For those times when I need a varnish type finish, I use the premium Minwax poly (the gold and black can) for smooth application. good looks and quick drying.

I think I know something about this....

I stained and varnished 16 poplar six panel interior and closet doors with water based varnish in 1996. I don't even remember how many feet of poplar baseboard , door casing and window frames.....remodeled the house.

Get yourself a GOOD random orbital sander for the flat stuff and sanding sponges for the detail/curvey stuff.

Use a really GOOD fine bristled sash brush.A 3" worked best for the six panel doors.

Doors should be horizontal.

Sand, stain, sand after staining very lightly with very fine sanding sanding sponge (the stain raises the grain). First coat should be gloss because it has more solids and fills the grain better. Lightly sand this coat and finish with satin or gloss.

Stain must dry overnight. Use surface stain to hide light spots and paint that has gotten into the grain...don't ask how I know.

Varnish drying times depending on temperature and humidity between coats can be in as little as two hours. Wipe surfaces after sanding stain and varnish with a used cotton cloth lightly dampened. Think old T-shirt.

The trick to painting with fast drying water based varnish is to paint in a traveling wave across the surface. The brush marks will level quite quickly.
Avoid lapping fresh varnish over dried or partially dried varnish.

Three things I really like about water based varnish:

Lack of fumes,

Fast drying,

No yellowing or crazing after 16 years.

I bet I could pick out the water based stuff if put side by side with the traditional oil based stuff.


And I like the fumes.

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LIVE FROM THE DAWGHOUSE

The fumes kill brain cells