Thanks for letting me rant: A Seller advertises a firearm for sale (or trade). Buyer agrees to sellers price (or meets Sellers trade requirements). Then at the 11th hour Seller backs out. This happened to me recently and unfortunately, was not the first (nor likely last) time. I've heard the entire gambit of excuses ranging from "its a family heirloom"; "my wife (or husband) won't let me"; "I think I can get a better deal elsewhere", etc. Perhaps I'm old fashion but I believe when a deal is struck all parties have a moral obligation to go through with it; especially if travel or other expense have been expended. Anyone experience anything similar? So, why do people do this?

Sorry to say, but someone might have offered him more than your agreed price. Is it lower than owl poop, yes, but happens all the time in the car world. If you knew the horror story's of good people and honest people load up thier trailer and travel half way across the country for the blank look and the " I sold it before you got here ". Easier to lie than to man up and be honest. Kind of like on-line dating these days, make up a lie and hide thier face in behind the computer screen. 26

Because some people are (insert word here). There are more and more people these days that have no honor, morals or whatever term you want.

No it's not right but unless it's face to face, there is not much you can do about them. Just chalk it up to experience. It could be worse, you could spend the money and either not get what was advertized or not get it at all.

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Still Running Against the Wind

Hasn’t happened to me on a gun sale but last summer I contacted an individual in the adjacent county who had a brush hog for sale. We agreed on a price and a time. When I got to his place there was no one home. I left with an empty trailer and was out the gas expense and time. When I finally reached him that evening he told me that he had sold it to another fella who came by and offered a hundred dollars more than he and I had agreed on. I asked why he didn’t call and let me know and he said that he intended to but got busy and forgot. In my view we already had deal and the least he could have done was to call and let me make a counter-offer.

1sg, you sound like a man who still believes a man's word
is his bond. From a Tom Clancy novel, your word is who you are.
Sometimes it's hard to find people that still have enough honor
to be as good as their word. Makes you sick some times, but,
there it is. Hope you find better folk along the way. TACC1

If you can prove it the word is a contract and liability is assumed.
Blessings

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TEXAS, by GOD

I was taught that a mans word was his honor and the most prized thing he had, my dad lived by it and his dad lived by it. I have found that people that do tend to sleep much better at night. A real shame more people dont.

Sadly in many cases we've lost much of the moral compass that used to drive our country. To many folks looking for a quick buck and the easier softer way.

I agree with you, Joe, but the disheartening thing is that most of those who do not believe it critical to their integrity to keep their word are stilll able to sleep at night.

Under the Uniform Commercial Code a contract for the sale of goods over $500 is not a contract unless it is in writing.

Damage is not assumed, it is the burden of the one claiming damage to prove it.


Unless there is reliance that causes someone damage when the other backs out, IMHO there is no moral obligation to go through a deal. Most deals do not include the phrase "I give you my word I will go through with the deal"

The moral obligation kicks in when someone lies, cheats, steals or knowingly causes the other to be tricked, deceived or hurt.

In the end, a deal is only as good as the person you deal with.

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Buy American
Vote Responsibly

Around 1971 I bought a new model 40 from a small gun shop. just a few weeks later I met the shop owner at a gun show. He casualy asked me if I still had the model 40 and said he would give me what I gave him for it as a customer wanted one and it would save him ordering another. Since I seen something else at the show i said okay figuering no big deal, I could replace it soon. Right after he walked off a guy at a table had overheard and told me smith had just announced they were stopping production on it and they were already double in price. Now, he had gave me no money and I had told him I would drop the gun off to his shop the next day. I went in the next day, gave him the gun, got my money and then told him I knew what he just did and that I was a man of my word but I wasnt going to deal with him again!

I'm a man of my word and when someone flake out on me I record it so I don't go through it again. They didn't screw me, they screwed themselves.

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_It was love at first shot_

After realizing his motive, nothing is what he would have gotten from me. He was dishonest, and took advantage of the situation.

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Doesn't hasta call me Johnson

Here's a story a buddy told me at a match recently:

He was competing at a local club when he saw a Bushmaster AR 15 for sale on the bulletin board, the price looked good so he calls the seller. Deal made.

Seller tells him- I'm nervous about the law, would you do the transfer at my LGS, the dealer will handle everything. Buyer says no problem as long as the price is the same as agreed. Appointment made. Now the fun part:

Seller calls buyer on the morning of sale date, says " I have a problem, I don't want to lose my gun, and the dealer said, if you (buyer) can't pass the NICS he will have to seize the rifle and hold it for the State Police. So I am going to trade it in on the new rifle I want."

Buyer asks how much is he giving you on the trade, sellers as says Oh, $450 against the new S&W, after all he can't give me retail.

I'm still trying to figure out who scammed whom, weasel seller or weasel dealer?

Contract law varies from state to state. The UCC (in those state's that have adopted it) generally applies to commercial sales of goods -- not sales betwen private parties not engaged in business. Statutes of frauds, which specify when a contract must be in writing, vary from state to state.

Some folks do this just to find out the value of the merchandise.

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NRA Benefactor

It's called "low class or no class" - what goes around, comes around.

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Martin Co,FLA(finally made it)

I had a rifle sold out from under my publicly posted "I'll Take It!"

"Sold it to somebody in PM."

Surprisingly the majority on that [strike]auction[/strike] web site are OK with it. I will say the demo on that site is considerably younger than here. Class & character are rapidly disappearing I fear...

In many case they figure it's a one time deal, they'll never see you again, so...
Odddly enough, one time I was planning to buy a rifle via the interet, the seller tried to pull the old "I got a better offer" deal. The he PM'ed me saying that buyer backed out, it was available at the original price.

Just the opposite.... I've had several buyers back out at the last minute.

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A closed mouth gathers no foot

I had a m 29-2 8 3/8's for sale on GB a while back. Auction was a 14 day penny start auction, really brought them out of the wood work. Had calls from S. America, etc. and even open attempts for straw purchase from some guy that said he was a cop, and later claimed he didn't understand the implications of his request, maybe. My FFL is a LEO-He understands!-Any way, the bidding started on the first day and went right through to the very end. The gun was a package that included the revolver, blue box, original shipping carton, wood display case with plastic cover, a Bianchi X-15 extra large shoulder rig, all docs, tools, and the original sales receipt, everything. I had an NR bidder (one with no transactions and no feedback) contact me early on, because part of my auction details required NR's to email me so that I could make sure that they understood the auction process, and that sellers had worked hard to get their feedback rating, etc... He made all of the right noises, so I let him bid (Whoa, Bummer). He had told me that he intended to win the package at the very beginning, and that's what he did! (bigger bummer). 14 days can be a very long time, and this guy made it seem even much longer than that. There were emails most days; detailed questions, requests for background information, history on the M 29, on and on. Probably 6 times he wanted to "make sure" that this one was "pinned and recessed." We discussed maintainence issues, and on, and on, and on some more; his son inheriting the gun. Can you suggest a similar gun that I could shoot and get the experience of shooting one like it without shooting this one. Now, I made a dilligent effort to field all of his requests and concerns, and I believe I was indeed able to do so. It entailed dozens of emails and forwards, and links to webb sights. I try to live my relationship with the Lord, and of course, that takes on a more defined prospective in a "business transaction." So, I really "went the extra mile" with the guy, in my view; I worked at it. The auction ended at just under 1200.00, which was OK, but I really thought it would bring more, but the economy...especiall right about this time, but, OK. But it wsn't OK-everything was difficult, everything required constant oversight, multiple emails-the dealer-the shipping-the money, etc, etc. the deal just dragged on. All through the deal he would email some very speciffic question, or something, and I would get right back to him, only to wait a full day or more for his response. It was tedious, you get the idea. Finally, all the paper falls in the right piles, he gets the gun, I get the money. A couple days go by, he sees a tiny surface scratch down on the side of the frame. The area was pictured in the auction-I had dextensive pics of everything-but it was all but impossible to see-even looking at it in your hand, but hey, I had put a three day inspection on it-that he wasn't even aware of, and told him to send it back, and that I would even pay ALL of theshipping and fees-no cost to him-just send it back. More questions-back and forth-finally after 30 days post sale and no gun, I tell the guy, look-this is taking way too long, just send the gun back unfired, and the way I sent it to you. NO. He tells me that he wants ME to pay his state taxes on the gun (?) $170.00, plus some other fees he has incurred. I told him that evidently he had taken my patience and generosity as weakness, which was unfortunate, and that I needed a conformation/tracking number showing that the gun was coming back, the way it was sent, by close of business that day, and he would get his refund, otherwise, he could keep this incredibly nice example and everything that came with it. He didn't send the gun (?) But he did say all kinds of ugly things about me, and make a very nasty dent in my GB feedback. I don't resent the guy, prayed for him, but there are no bids accepted from NR bidders in my auctions anymore. Flapjack.

Flapjack: What an unfortunate experience for you, but I do admire your patience I fear I would have told the buyer to pound sand...

Well spoken my friend.


chuck

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They hold no Quarter

PM sent......READ IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Forum consigliere

From the Bible;
Mat_5:37 But let your 'Yes' be 'Yes,' and your 'No,' 'No.' For whatever is more than these is from the evil one.

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Endeavor to persevere. <><

Caj left this part out of his post, so I assume that his PM was to tell you that this is completely ILLEGAL.
Everyone else needs to know that you can't do this. A handgun has to be tranferred to a person in HIS state from an FFL in HIS state.
Check out the FAQ on the ATF website about non-licensees.

be careful folks. The Alphabet groups are not our friends. Especially right now.

As for the OP, a lot of people get buyers/sellers remorse and regret the transaction. That shouldn't be the other person's problem, though. We don't, as a society, take responsibilty for our actions anymore.

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War Eagle! '10 BCS & '13 SEC

Got it! Thanks to all and I will state that ignorance is no excuse and I now realize I am not going to do this no way no how.

Years back a buddy and I from MT travelled out to St Albans VT to the then World HQ's of Century Arms International. My buddy had a shop, also had a Class 3 license. He had a MG34/43 ? anyway...CAI had literally several tons of CLEAN, ammo the belts rustfree, even the wooden ammo crates were like new.

They do the deal, and we go inside to view where they were cleaning up and rebuilding K-98's and Hakims as their workers were LOADING THE TRAILER with ammo.

I was a bit suspicious with how the CAI guy kept trying to usher us AWAY from the trailer.

I sneak away and catch the workers SWITCHING the original boxes they were loading with boxes later revealed to contain FAR from pristine ammo. Basically JUNK.

Big vebal argument ensues.....but in the end we left with 95% of the boxes containing pristine ammo.

The reason I tend to BASH CAI whenever they are mentioned here.

FN in MT

I got stiffed by a car dealer afterI got the loan. Oh, yeah, ticked off.

Another story. I responded to a plea for a gunsight. The price was agreed, I got his check and mailed the sight. It didn't arrive. The buyer was unhappy and cynical about me, the seller. I sent a full refund, he deduced my error and apologized with a check. I accepted his apology and refused his check. I messed up by mailing to the wrong address. I took the blame.

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USN WWII Korea
NRA

I guess I was born too soon to understand what goes on in people's minds in this day and time. I was always taught when you give your word to someone you are dealing with, that is the way it should be. I have always tried to honor that and have.
Nowadays a man's word doesn't mean anything with the younger generation because they weren't taught the value of honor by their parents. This is a fact.


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James

Years ago I worked with two guys that were similar in some aspects of moral charactor. One bought some silver in bar form from the other. This was back in the mid 80s when silver was makeing a big run up with the hunt brothers manipulateing the price. The price went up bigtime that night and the seller was to bring it in the next day. He came in with some lame excuse as to why he didnt brink it to work. Than the price kept going up awhile longer and the excuse`s kept getting wilder and more unbeliveable while probley the seller was probley waiting for the price to go down to replace the silver he no doubt sold elsewhere when the price went skyhigh right after he sold it. I dont know how it ended up but both guys were real slick and wheeler dealers. I thought it comical.

I've always had a problem with buyers backing out, not sellers. For every buyer who actually follows through with a deal, I probably have 4 who back out. Some of the excuses are a hoot.

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You are what you learn.

I was in the market for a new Truck and went to a local dealership
and looked. They we're running a "special" where they we're giving
a 500 dollar gas card and free tires for the life of the vehicle. Now
this was'nt my first rodeo so i knew the free tires for life meant that
i had to take it in at regularily scheduled visits to this dealership for
rotations and inspections and miss one of these and they tell you sorry..etc... but i thought the 500 gas card was a
nice little extra. The wife and i find a nice new one we both like and
start the process of haggling with the salesman. A price was agreed upon and i specifically asked him does this include the gas card. He
assuredly says oh yes sir, with my wife right by my side the whole time.
Well, upon taking delivery of a 30 some thousand dollar truck, i ask
the salesman when i would be getting the gas card. He tells me i would
recieve it in the mail in a couple weeks. No problem i think.
After a month i call the dealership and ask what happened to my gas
card? I'm then told by the salesman that i had bought the truck 2 days
too late to get the free gas card included in the special offer. I contact the sales manager and relate the whole story, he tells me basically
sorry the salesman should'nt have promised me the gas card as the
offer was expired. It was'nt the gas card so much as the idea of the
dealership had made a promise to me i would get one.
So they decided to screw a good paying customer who had just bought
a 30K truck over a 500 dollar incentive??? Needless to say, i'll never
grace their business again with my money and i will, at every
opportuity tell others of their dishonest dealings. Does this make
any sense at all for a business to conduct themselves this way??
I still scratch my head when i think about this.



chuck

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They hold no Quarter

I think it's BS chud. They knew there wasn't going to be any gas card.

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_It was love at first shot_

This happened to me --AGAIN! Talk about frustrating. To all you back-peddlers out there; why do you do this?

Remember this old saying:

"A verbal contract is only worth the paper it's written on".