I went into my local bank branch yesterday and for the first time, saw an armed security guard out front. He was carrying a stainless S&W (side plate ID) but I couldn't see what it was because of the holster design and the heavy jacket he had on. I told him I was glad he had a Smith and asked him what model it was. He said it was a .38 Special, but on further asking, he didn't know what model it was except .38 Special. I bid him a good day and went about my business. I got to thinking that guys like him were probably the proverbial accident waiting to happen. Maybe it's just because I NEVER carried anything I didn't KNOW everything about, I wouldn't carry. I know that jobs are hard to get and that this man was doing what he needed to do, but..........I hope he never has to use it.

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Term limits!

I wonder if he keeps his bullet in his jacket pocket?

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-jwk-
US Army '72-'95

That's so coincidental! Same thing here - went to the bank on Thursday and there was a mid-twenties kid with a security services emblem on his shirt with a 4" S&W revolver on his hip out front - never seen that before. Looked like a K frame (or maybe an L) - not big enough to be an N frame. Didn't chat long as he was stationed outside and it was raining sideways. I watched through the windows while I was waiting in the teller line and he seemed to stay fairly close to the ATM outside. Maybe they've had some issues with people being bothered at the ATM?

Most of us (Armed Security) carry M-64's. It seems to be the preferred weapon for security companies, impervious to the weather and easy to maintain for those of us who bother. Mine was company-issued, and it had such a good trigger I bought two more just like it.

As for not knowing the model number, most guards (like a lot of cops I worked with) couldn't care less about what model it is, as long it goes bang when it's supposed to. It's just one more piece of equipment.

Most of the guys I work with are ex PD (like me) but the only time they shoot is when they qualify twice a year. They treat me like a nut-job because I shoot every week, and carry a boatload of ammo on duty. I work in the ghetto where this is no backup within five minutes, so I figure there's no such thing as too much ammo!

I don't know how bank guards keep their sanity..........I'd lose my mind if I had to stand around all day long. I no longer have the patience to deal with the public, I used it all up years ago!

I used to work security, including in banks. I hated banks more than most posts. The tellers considered the guard the only one lower on the totem pole than themselves and often tried to use him to run errands.

Being posted outside the lobby was even worse, from a weather standpoint. And there was an "outside dog" effect, which was even more damaging to my ego, considering that I have an education better than most working in the lobby and behind the counter.

I've worked for several companies and for many years. During that time I met precisely one other guard with whom I cared to have a personal asociation off the job. He was finishing chiropractic college, and I was actually his first patient after he graduated. Got rear-ended at a red light by a city water utility truck driven by a man probably on dope.

NONE of the other security personnel knew much about guns, although wearing one made some think they were ten feet tall. Most didn't know much about anything. And considering who is largely getting hired here for security jobs now, it's even worse.
I really wonder if many of these newer individuals finished high school. I'm sure they know one rap singer from another and they can use a cell phone, but if they ever heard of the Magna Carta, I'd be surprised. However, some are pretty street smart and can catch people breaking into cars quite well. I've also seen some do a good job of finding where some fleeing thief is hiding. I think this may reflect some of their own backgrounds... but they have to pass a criminal check to be hired.

But many cops are as bad. My son recently asked one what he was carrying. He thought it was a .45, but couldn't recall the make or model, and clearly didn't care. Thankfully, I've met some who did care, but they are less common now than they were. One called his girlfriend to get her to look in the closet and check the ammo box to see what weight his 9mm bullets were. But he knew that his gun is a SIG P-226.

BTW, I usually wore a S&W M-66 with four-inch barrel, sometimes a Ruger GP-100. Ammo varied with the job. I didn't want to ruin my hearing by firing .357 rounds indoors, or risk excessive penetration in crowds. But I definitely carried .357 ammo when warranted. I did also wear a three-inch barrel M-36-1 and a Model 64 on occasion.

Model numbers are for enthusiasts...knowing the caliber is enough for a security guard, in case he needs to buy ammo for it.....

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Thirty characters. Exactly...

Amen to that

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JR

Many, many years ago I got picked up for a day as the third man on a Brink's truck. They handed me a shotgun and two shells with no questions asked. At the end of the day I removed the shells from my jacket pocket where I had placed them at the beginning of the shift . So ended my armed guard career without incident. Have never fired a shotgun to this day.

Don't know how it is in your state but, in N.C. you must qualify with the weapon and if you carry a taser you have to be tasered as part of the qualification with it. They don't just hand you gun. Most if not all Armed guards carry their own personel weapons. There is a type of paperwork the security company does that essentially leases your weapon to them. Don't understand how that works but anyway that's the way it's done. Some few Cos. supply weapons but, they are usually the lagger national cos. like Brinks and Wackenhut etc.

Over 35 years of security work here. I worked with every type guard possible. A large percentage of them were retired LEO and military. Some few were as pictured in cartoons, some of them dedicated enough to have attended some of those shooting schools on their own money, many seen it as a job in between jobs, you name it, I seen it. One sure thing, I wouldnt count on the odds of under estimateing one.
My job required heavy background checks for security clearances and goverment contracts. It paid well. I also did a few other cheaper guard jobs starting out. The outfits generaly got what they paid for.
My very first guard job was like the cartoon version. My prior job was working in many states a few months at a time. I had taken a leave of absence to look for a better job. This meant I had no unemployment money to draw. Soon I was broke and took that first guard job knowing I wouldnt stay.
It was minimum wage, about a $1.35 in late 1964. I was just given a address and told relieve another guard at a small factory at midnight. The guard was about a 70 year old russian. He wanted to see my revolver, a colt officers model match I owned. I didnt see one on him and said, well, wheres yours? He pulled out a DS colt out of his back pocket. A red hankercheif was stuffed down the barrel. He told me that was to keep it from rusting! California back in 1964 wasnt near as regulated as later. The required schooling and qualifing for your gun open carry permit and guard card or licenses didnt start until around 1974 or so. Anyway early the next morning I heard a commotion going on out at the gate. I went out and there was a couple dozzen strikers out there hollering insults at me. I NEVER had been even told that the place was on strike and that was why I was hired!
Maybe a week later I took another guard job at universal studios. Our patchs were "Universal city police dept" but Burns was on our checks! It did pay more than any other burns contract though. I was hired to replace another guard they fired for shooting someone! The guard, a black guy was loading a bus full of extras to go out on location. A foxy girl was getting on and the guard helped her on with a free handfull. She had a brother also a extra, that seen the action, took umberance at it and decked the guard. The guard drew and shot the brother in the gut! I have no idea what that cost universal! From there I went to lockheed for the next 35 years.
Lockheed mostly hired ex older LEO and retired military at the time. The cheif let me know I was about the first younger inexperianced guy to be hired. It was about a 300 man dept at the time and not one female. That all come later. We had a shooting range, had to qualify regularly even though it wasnt state regulated yet in those days. We also had our own schooling and training. Once many years later a range officer commented I had the lowest numbered gun permit he ever seen. Of course I probley was in the first state required class as soon as they demanded it.

Merrill-

I, too, have been handed a shotgun and a few shells and no instruction. In one case, the shotgun had a broken firing pin and the shells both had dented primers!

Most security companies are disgusting. If I was in danger, I doubt that I'd hire a guard from one. I did the work because I could write on most posts, and being alone, didn't have to deal with office politics.

BTW, I passed the police exam with a score in the mid-90's and had a five-point veteran hiring preference, but failed the physical because my eyes were too poor without my glasses. Other forces here had even more stringent vision requirements, so that was the end of my intended LEO career, although I'd done poiice work in the USAF with no problems.

plenty of people know less than that about their car and I don't necessarily think they are accidents waiting to happen.

That reminds me of this story: Actualy I had taken that leave of absence to see if I could get a Leo job or long haul truck driveing. Just before I got my lockheed guard job I tested for the kern county sheriffs dept. At the time I was 6ft 2"s and close to 260 lbs. Mostly muscle but huge. Everything was done in one day. First I passed the written and then came the physical. If we flunked thge physical we were told to just go home, that was it! I flunked out on the pullups. I started home but noticed the guys that had passed were sitting on the lawn waiting for their orals. I also noticed they werent being called by roster. I got thinking why not? Nothing to lose. Finaly I got up in front of the board. I thought I was doing pretty good. Finaly one of the men said, "Your a pretty big guy to be able to pass the physical, how ja do?" I flunked sir! WHAT? What are ya doing here?, he roared. I just snapped back, "Getting experiance for next time sir!" That cracked up the board. Finaly the head honcho said look, if you can pass the physical in the next six months you have a job!
Lockheed then called me. We had a 90 day probation and the cheif told me I had to lose weight by then. I started working out in a gym. Also went to a doctor, got pills and started takeing thyroid pills. In several months I got down to about 210 lbs from 260. I put back on about 15 pounds of muscle with the weights and at 225 was in the best shape of my life. I knew I could pass any physical. However by then I figuered I had the easiest best paying job in my life as a lowly lockheed guard and didnt want to quit it to takeing a chance on washing out as a deputy for any reason.
I have a BIL that was a LEO in colorado and belive it or not was getting more than double pay of what he claimed to be getting. He is retired now and doing something else.
I was talking to our county sheriff here and was told I had made far more than what he was getting. LEO in california must get a fortune more than smaller depts across the country. Good union!

I've been an officer with a small security outfit for the past seven years. The manager is a retired MD State Trooper and carries on occasion but none of us have been asked to carry on the job. Last year, a local industry hired us to make bank runs for them. The money can be substantial but the company disn't want to pay extra for an armed person. I was asked to make the run and have done so for the past year without incident. The manger knows that I am a shooter so he knows that I usually have a weapon and ammunition handy. If I was asked to carry, I would without hesitation carry my 2 1/2 in Model 19-3 with Golden Sabers. Shooting it out in the open is do-able and will not permanently deafen me but it will permanently impact the life of whoever sees fit to try and help themselves to the "loot".

Was thinking this. I remember numbers poorly, which really is a bummer when you are into guns. I have a SW 442 revolver.... I remember this by opening up the case and looking at it daily. And I will forget it by the end of the week if I don't handle the gun often. The ammo, practice, and maintenance is much more important than the model number.

I/we are interested in guns so we all probley know the model #s and such. On the other hand I take prescribed pills that I cant even pronouce or spell. My wife doles them out for me and I just trust her. I dont deride anyone because their intrests arent the same as mine. I am positive everyone else is interested in something that I aint. That doesnt mean they cant shoot that gun better than I can.

It was probably a CTG!

I'm just surprised you saw a bank guard, I thought they were extinct. Around here in NH, last time I saw an armed bank guard I was still in school, and I'm in my 50s now.

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Geoff. Since 1960.

One of the dumbest things I ever done was take a partial shift for another guard. Don was going through a bad divorice and was moonlighting part time as a bank guard. We were guards together at lockheed. This was back in the late 60s. He needed a friday afternoon off for some court appearance on his divorice. He kept bugging me to take his shift at the bank. I wrongly probley assumed he had somehow covered the idea with his boss. I showed up and he came out of the bank and gave me his badge! Then he put on a sweater so no one could see he wasnt wearing a badge. I already had some stock gray uniforms from a prior job. We went in and met the bank president and he told him the company had to have him go somewhere else and had sent me.
I remember sweating his sargent dropping by chance and seeing me, or actualy haveing to get in shootout or something. I never was so glad to get through a shift! And then I had to shake the $10 bucks out of him!
Maybe a year or two after that don got killed on a deal. Think he stuck his nose in a robbery in chicago. He got fired for sleeping on the job where we worked because between his two other jobs he was working around the clock. Poor guy!

I forget when I last saw a bank guard, have seen some armored car guards now and then. Those of us who have served in the military-the Army, e.g.-can testify to the miserable job it does in training people on firearms and the disdain and contempt for firearms proficiency that prevails there, you think a private company paying low wages is going to do any better?

They were common in southern california. What got me though was actualy seeing armed guards a few times at a burger king there! That doesnt say much for this country. Now they have them at large post offices, the DMV, welfare and social security offices etc. I never seen that when I was a kid. While my lifes career was being a armed guard, I think it stinks that this country needs them!

Reading this thread on armed guards I found somewhat humerous as I have supervised armed contract security officers on numerous occassions. Thankfully, I no longer have to do so nor would again as I feel there are numerous problems which I would be too long to go into here. Suffice to say that there were only a very few I trusted carrying ANY firearm.
The banks I dealt with saw security as the person who made coffee and kept the supply desk full of deposit tickets, etc for customers. One even told me that it was the guard's job to "die to protect the money" (no joke).
Only one company would issue a firearm to guards who did not have their own...with a deposit taken out of their check every two weeks for it (all were paid minimum wage, BTW). These were old, beat up Smith and Wesson heavy barrel Model 10's or the occassional Colt Police Positive Special that on examination would be dangerous to fire. (One of the Colt's had a habit of the cylinder falling out when opened.) Ammo was always .38 Spl 158 gr RNL. Other than that, you could carry whatever you had. I saw a mixture of Smiths, Rugers, Colts, RG (yes), Stallard (yes, now called HyPoint). Many of my guards would merely take a cartridge from the sidearm into a sporting goods store and hand it to the clerk saying "Gimme a box of these..."
In short, the vast majority only knew that it was a gun and little else about it. The guard companies cared little with most saying if the guard had to use deadly force, they were "on their own". All of this turned me off from the armed contract guard biz. I believe that if a client need to have their guards armed, they should be either in-house or off duty cops and not contractors.
Just my 0.02 cents worth.

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The Last Standing Knight

Banks! Here in South Florida we have armed guards at my Publix, at a lot of Walgreens pharmacies. I had a client who was an armed guard at a laundromat. I go to a restaurant sometimes which has an armed guard out in the parking lot.

I've worked armed contract/corporate security since the early 90's, and while things have changed, they haven't gotten much better. Companies are more worried about liability than ever, and are more conscientious about who is armed, but the lack of training and support is atrocious. Budget-cutting always starts with less training, the one thing that will get them sued, but they rarely see it that way.

One place I worked as a supervisor was a public utility, and one of the directors told me (in confidence) that for what the district was paying for armed contract guards, they could hire their own, train them better, give them a fat raise AND full benefits, and still come out ahead. But the liability issue kept them from doing it, they felt it was cheaper in the long run to pay the guard service to take the risks in case someone got hurt.

I pointed out that we were all carrying loaded guns, but they wouldn't let us carry Pepper Spray. Why? Liability!

So let's see......there's a guy who needs to be maced and cuffed for creating a disturbance, but we don't have anything but a gun.......I guess we'll just have to shoot him!

Just my opinion, but about 60% of the people working armed have NO business carrying anything more than a notebook. The training is pretty much non-existent, and qualification is a joke. But if I were in charge things would be different!

Basicly there are two type guard jobs. Your huge companys like auto, aircraft, etc that have "inhouse" security, and then all the two bit outfits. Unless you are starving to death and need a job while your looking for a job, you dont want to be a guard with a two bit outfit. The inhouse jobs give you all the same benifits that their regular workers get.
Usualy the inhouse jobs hire experianced ex retired military and LEO. The small outfits want a warm body and hope for the best. There are unique other jobs that vary but the vast majority are in these catagorys. Ever hear a kid say "I wanna be a night watchman when I grow up?" I once had a guy tell me a joke, trying to get to me. This guy go`s to a company to apply for a job. The interviewer asks him what kind of work he can do. They go through a long list and the guy keeps saying no. Finaly the interviewer says I got just the job for you here that you qualify for! Guard!
I cant complain. It was good for me. It sure wasnt glamoris but it paid my bills and child support. I love planes and flying and thats all I was around. The one qualification that is the most important was dependability. You couldnt be a minuet late to open a gate or you might have 500 mad employees ready to run over your head to get home. Also you were getting tried out a lot by both some employees that hate the least authority and the occasional security program agent sent to try out your companys security on a regular basis.

Check this out . (though it was interesting for us S&W people) My security company gives us.......SIGMAS!! lol bet you dint see that coming You can bring your own if you want as long as it fits the bill but if you use the campanys, its a sigma.

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Aim small miss small

I've worked security, both armed and unarmed, off and on all my life. Right now, I'm currently working unarmed, and really have no desire to carry a gun. Just something else heavy on my belt. If we get real problems, we can "call county." Let them handle it.

The first job I took years ago, was with Burns. Standards were pretty low back then apparently. I was handed a Colt Official Police revolver with MOP grips (a really nice gun actually), a Sam Brown belt with a Jordan holster, and told "Don't shoot yourself, or anyone else, unless you absolutly have to." I never did.

But to the point of the bank guard. The only reason I knew it was a Colt Official Police was it said so on the the side of the barrel. Later with Pinkerton's I was issued a Model 10. Same thing. I knew it was a Model 10 because it said so on the paper I signed when I was issued it. I never, ever fired either of them. But I don't think I was "an accident waiting to happen."

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John 3:16 .

Colt PP 38 colt,ser.# 179385 (1928 ?)Chase National Bank. ( I got this at a yard sale)
Dick

Was down in Mexico on a cruise, at one of the port calls we made a stop at a large jewelry shop. I saw one uniformed civilian guard carrying a 1911 style pistol.

Due to their laws it appeared to be a .38 super (a decent round no doubt) it was carried hammer down in an old beat up piece of leather. The best part of this is he carried no spare magazines that I could see, but did have 5 rounds in loops on his belt.

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14 S&W Revs none with locks!

Wow! In looking at this old reserected thread I had forgot that I even posted all that! Anyway usualy a person takes a guard job to eat in between jobs. Thats how I started. I ended up with probley the highest paid guard job in the united states, lockheed aircraft 1965 to 2,000. I cant knock it. Also worked universal movie studios before that and a couple of lesser ones for just a couple months. Yeah, you see the cartoon guards but I also worked with retired guys from literaly every branch of service, cia, fbi, many retired cops and deputys from all over the country. Several were retired AF pilots, a few movie actors, you name it. It`s a mistake to generalise. I had guard friends that were green beret, one seal, one had a silver star. Two friends quit to reup and go to nam and got killed. I worked with a lot of good men and some women and a few bad ones too.

We have armed security guards in the public library. but none in banks!

medxam

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Doc Garrett
Dead Man's Doctor

I'll second that. I live in rural WI where 3 little ol' ladies work at the local bank. We average about one armed robbery a year in my neck of the woods, usually a pharmacy with the perps looking for drugs.

Where I live, the library guards of late are city employees, but not real cops. The library once hired its own guard, who I think was in-house. He wasn't armed at work, but had a heart attack and offered to sell me his gun to raise money while he recovered.

It was a Colt Marshal, a rare round-butted version of the Official Police. He had moved down here from Boston and thought he had to have the gun registered and have a permit to own it. This guy wasn't the brightest bulb in even the smallest chandelier at a place like Versailles. He was afraid that he'd be found with an unregistered gun, and might not be able to get a permit to have it.

He had wrapped the gun in a once oily rag and it had reposed in his apt. for 20 years without being cleaned or oiled. It was badly rusted with ample pitting. I had to turn him down, although I'd have probably bought it out of pity, if I was wealthy enough. I almost cried for him and to see the condition of that once fine gun that would interest a Colt collector, had he maintained it.

Now: as for the member who posted above that he's carrying a snub M-19 with .357 ammo while transporting money, but who is evidently not licensed to do that, he's probably in a world of legal hurt if discovered carrying without a suitable commission., if his state requires that. Even a commissioned guard has to be authorized to carry on a given contract, or he can get into a mess.

As for the member who bragged that he doesn't carry and sees no reason to, because he can call the sheriff if a problem arises, good luck. Let me know how it works out the first time you intercept a mental case who's off his meds and is breaking into a car when he pulls a knife on you and goes right for you. You won't even have time to dial 911 before being seriously stabbed or cut, perhaps lethally.

That was one of my primary concerns on my final guard job, which ended early this year. Police officers who patrolled in the area warned me that one individual in particular was such a person, "mental" and often off meds. And they knew of several others among the vagrants who drifted through the parking lot of what was by daytime an upscale shopping and professional strip within three blocks of one of the most affluent suburbs in the nation. At night, some undesirable people floated past, and we sometimes had homeless drifters cause problems at a restaurant or bar in the strip. The next shopping strip down, just across a small street, had a string of armed robberies of patrons at a theater. Oh: I once saw a coyote trot past at about five AM! (Definitely not a feral dog.)

And we had one creep who had been jailed several times for breaking into cars. He stood a pretty good chance of going away for a a long time if convicted again. I felt sure that he might kill a guard who caught him at it.

Guns aside, these drifters probably had knives, and a fast man with a knife can close with you and have a blade into you before some men can pull a trigger, if he's at all close. The rule is that if he's within 21 feet, he is dangerous!

I decided to draw if I saw one reach for a knife and shoot as he opened it. If I thought I had the luxury of telling him ONCE to drop it, I would. Otherwise, he was going to die that night before I might. I did have to be mindful of cameras, although some didn't work, and I was never sure of what they 'd record, or where, although I spotted most of them. I could only hope that a camera would show that I was justified in shooting. But if the angle didn't show the other fellow pulling a gun or knife...well, the weapon would be there for the cops to find, and I hope that I'd seem more believable than the sort of person that I was likely to shoot.


BTW, we didn't used to have library guards, except for the main library downtown. But changing demographics have brought certain elements of the population into areas that they were once unlikely to frequent. Now, at least some branch libraries have guards from the city's security force.

A quick response to those here who don't think it matters if a guard knows what gun he has and can buy the right ammo for it...

People who don't even know which gun they have are also less likely to have the right ammo and be able to reload quickly if needed, or even to maintain the firearm properly. They are more likely to have rust on a gun or have it malfunction than someone who takes pride in a weapon and looks after it, so that it can look after him.

And the knowledgeable owner is more likely to practice enough that he can hit his target effectively while not endangering the public. My state requires commissioned guards to re-qualify once every two years. I'm quite sure that this is the only shooting that most do, and they do that because they have to.

I know today's society has gone downhill on a lead sled; but why do we need guards in a public library??

One more post, and I'll shut up for now.

I did once have the experience of guarding a pharmacy in a store that wanted me to work unarmed. Drug addicts sometimes tried to use false prescriptions and holdups had occurred. There were bullet holes in the ceiling from a robber having fired shots to intimidate the pharmacist!

I wore a sort of Eisenhower type uniform jacket that was about waist length. Obviously, any gun carried had to deal with that short coat. I would be carrying illegally as well as in violation of my company's rules and that of the client store.

I wore a Bianchi Shadow high rise holster with an S&W M-64 loaded with Plus P lead HP's. Pachmayr Presentation grips, what some here call "Goodyears" ...

I got away with it for a few weeks, although we had to call the police several times about customers. And one customer was another gun writer who knew me from the SHOT show and through a mutual friend, also a gun and knife scribe. We talked for maybe half an hour, him being very surprised to see me working in security. He never caught on that I was armed.

I had to do the same with another employer who stuck me in a discount store that catered to an element of society very different from me. I got away with it then, too, the only real difference being that my jacket was slightly longer and the gun was by then an M-66-3.

In both cases, I knew that I was walking on thin ice and got a new job ASAP. Had I not been very concerned that I'd need the gun, I wouldn't have risked carrying one under those conditions. Every time I went to work, I was at risk of being arrested as well as facing criminal threats. No one should have to work under those conditions! But there is no guard union to protest about such issues and effect changes.

In both cases, enough time has elapsed (by far) to exceed the statute of limitations for having carried illegally, in case anyone is wondering.

I'm thinking seriously of writing an article about the security industry. If I can find a suitable market, I probably will. The public has no idea of just how ill-qualified some guards are, or the conditions under which many work.

I started out as a armed guard in the los angeles area in late 1964. I do remember haveing to go to the police station on some technality to carry, but for the life of me I cant remember just what the wrinkel was.
I wasnt trained initaly. I worked several short jobs, finaly ended up at lockheed. We were trained with firearms in house even though on most posts we werent armed. Then the watts riots started up in late 1965 and they armed us with colt offical polices. I noticed the colts were all from the korea era. Also we had a bunch of colt old officers model targets that I suspect were from world war two era. I know they were armed in both wars and when the wars were over the guns pretty much were put in storage. Some of this came from old guards that had been there since maybe the late 1930`s. We were a huge department at times, definetly bigger than many towns with perhaps close to 270 guards or so in the 1960`s. This was at the main old plant at burbank california. None of it exists now. The main plant was moved to AF plant 42 at palmdale california 1968 to 1972. About then the california state consummers affairs board came out with regulations and requirements for both armed and unarmed guards. We had to go to school and was taught under state guidelines to get a guard card and a gun card. They were seperate. Of course since I was already working at a huge defense plant we were the very first to go through the new state program. Towards the end of my career firearm instructors told me several times I had the lowest numbered california gun permit they had seen. That state program started about the early 70`s to 75 or thereabout. I belive california probley was one of the first to license guards.
It`s pretty sickening when burger king needs to pay for a guard. I had a retired los angeles police captain friend that was my captain for awhile in the late 1970s. The large post offices in california started placeing armed guards about then. Captain drendal quit and hired in with them and had something to do with training and setting up the program. After he got in for awhile he asked me if I wanted to hire in under him but I didnt. I can tell you from experiance of working the entire spectrum that there is cheap guard jobs and there are some that are great paying departments too. The good ones are working in the defense plants and bases. On those jobs you need secret clearances and dont even bother trying to apply unless you have a spotless record.

No need, the pens are chained down.

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Memory of Randy Freas-Rimfired

You answered your own question. Don't know about Iowa, but some of that lead sled effect might result in violence in the library or robberies in the parking lot. Also, some public school students today might get into serious fights if they have to go to the library to do class research. That's especially likely if they belong to rival gangs.

Finally, derelicts often try to hang out in libraries and they may molest patrons. It was a frequent problem when I worked in the downtown library while I was in college.

I think the only place I've seen bank guards was Guatemala. Guys inside had semi-auto handguns. Guys at the drive-through had what looked like MP-5's, and did not look like guys to mess with. Definitely more "squared-away" than the 18 year-old kids stationed outside every market and hotel armed with pistol grip riot guns.

I once had the deputys called on me at a libary! I had a nephew that was born mentaly challanged. His dad died young and since my sister had five other kids I somehow took over with matt. He wasnt a kid but probley 30 years old at the time. He was on the system and I was his guardian. He lived by himself nearby. Matt worked at a work center for people like him. He also was a big hypocondriac.
I was going through the worlds meanest divorice and working double shifts to keep afloat. I was dead on my feet. I had just got home and fell in bed in a deep sleep. Phone rang. It was the secatary where he worked. Mr feralmerril, your nephew is at the libary causeing a big disturbance. He didnt come to work today and our director just called me from the liabary and said he`s there telling everyone he has ade`s!
I had a lot of trouble with matt. He would hear something, anything to do with health matters and he was sure he had it! Once he called me to take him to the hospital, said he was haveing a heart attack. He was far healthier than me and about 25 years younger. How do you know your haveing a heart attack matt? I am watching tv right now and they say if you have a pain up your arm its a heart attack and I am haveing one!
So now I am headed to the libary half asleep and mad as hell. I walked in and matt is sitting on the floor with about 5 women around him in a circle. He seen me comeing through the door, pointed at me and yelled, thats muh uncle and he dont belive I got ades either! It was probley funnier than hell but I was in a foul mood! I said not a word but reached and yanked him to his feet. I put a hammer lock on him and started out still not explaining myself. Matt was as tall as me but of course not as experianced as me. The floor was slick. Somehow matt tripped me and we slid 15 feet right up to the main libarians desk! I still had him in a hammerlock. She bellered at me not to leave, the sheriffs was on the way! I still didnt bother to explain myself but just waited for the deputy. Of course I explained myself to him and it went no farther.
Poor matt died on my watch in 2004. Here is a picture of matt and I about a year before he died.

The homeless. The public libraries are one of their favorite places to sleep and take a "bath" in the restroom. It's not so much that they are dangerous as they are mental and/or polluted up on booze and/or drugs.

I worked four years with the homeless and most are more interesting than dangerous. With that being said, I will have to admit I always had a .44 Magnum handy.

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Centennial Every Day

You're an enthusiast, the guard apparently isn't. That does not mean he's incompetent to safely handle a firearm. How many L.E. officers do you really think can tell you the model number of their weapon.

Starting to give it some serious thought. They seem to be hiring a lot more security guards than electronics techs.

Armed guard card is worth a couple more $$ an hour last time I looked.

Hmmm.. Have to have a look around here & see if I can find a handgun.

Besides all the ex LE and military type that I worked with there was even ex engineers, restraunt owners, preacher or two, you name it! When you work for a big corporation like lockheed and get all the many same benifits as the factory workers do, about 16 holidays and usualy able to work them all at tripletime, 401k, vacation, sick days, medical, retirement etc. If you going to be a guard you want it to be a large company with what is known as "In house" or for the goverment. All other "guard companys" are usualy minimum wage or close to it and a job to have while you are looking for another job. I did it for over 35 years from the worst to the best. The biggest qualification is simply dependability.

Homeless schizophrenics, for one. The guards aren't there to protect the books and DVDs; they are reassurance for the patrons.

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David Wilson

I have found that the average John Q. Public thinks two things about private security guards.
1- They think you are the police or have police powers, or,
2- They think of you as a rent-a-cop.
Contract guard services DO NOTHING to change this outlook.

The clients who hire contract security guards are fully aware of what they are hiring and the quality issues. All I have dealt with wanted cheap...and some actually saying not too smart, either.

I could go into detail on contract security guards and their companies, but I will end my two cents here with this:

Contract security guards serve one purpose as seen by their clients. That purpose is to assume as much responsiblity and liability they can off the client. In short, the whole industry is designed around their customers having a fall guy, scapegoat, or patsie whenever it is convienent for them. Been there, done that, moved on.

Proprietary (in-house) operations tend to be a LOT different. Some even have law enforcement powers and training. That is the exception, not the rule in my experience.

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The Last Standing Knight

I get to work in Mexico and Central America. In La Ceiba,Honduras I was advised as follows: "When you go to the bank, if you don't see the guards outside, turn around and RUN,as fast as you can." there are guards at every store,9mm CZs and pump shotguns. Seems like every country has lots of guards.

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Halfway and one more step

A good portion of the gate guards at Miramar are civilian. Might ask who they work for next time I go there. To my knowlege nobody has managed to steal a gate yet...

Many airports overseas are heavily guarded. When I arrived in Paris in the late '70's for the Air Show, I was surprised to see a squad of French soldiers on the tarmac armed with AK-47's. El Al, the Israeli airline, probably has the tightest security of any. Don't mean to threadjack but someone mentioned airfields.