Rattlesnake photo ID

[LennyLames]

Late spring is full of wonders! My "snowbird" northern flicker woodpecker is back from its winter jaunt south of the border and has resumed its routine of hammering away at the satellite dish so early in the morning. Sounds like a jackhammer on a steel drum. My desert shrubs, ironwood and Palo Verde trees have produced vivid flowers, raising the pollen levels. My giant saguaro cacti have all started sprouting white flowers, bringing in Africanized killer bees by day, and rabid bats by night. And, almost a year after the initial sighting, my resident gigantic rattlesnake has emerged from hibernation. See
Herpetologists (amateur or pro), please identity this. [sic] for the original thread.

I have been on on the lookout for it ever since temperatures have risen to the point that I've observed other snakes laying on the roads absorbing the heat.

Since my first encounter as described in the aforementioned thread, I've seen the snake numerous times at the same spot next to the compost bin. At times it would disappear for a week or so as it presumably went into hiding to digest whatever prey it caught. Then it would reappear at the same spot awaiting its next meal. It became an informal attraction for guests. My brother-in-law was visiting for a week and kept looking for it but his trip happened to span a digestion cycle, and thus, he never saw it in person. It was there the day before he arrived, and it reappeared the day after he left. My dad was visiting for a month and he got a couple of chances to see it, and found out firsthand how well camouflaged it is. I kept pointing at the spot where it was coiled in plain view, and it took a while before he could discern it even with binoculars, and he has very good vision.

I reviewed the previous responses to my original thread and some of them were spot-on. Even the venomous snake expert from the Phoenix Herpetological Society who does extensive field studies on local rattlesnakes confirmed that the markings are definitely that of a Western Diamondback. He reiterated that I was very lucky not to have been bitten during that first encounter. He proceeded to remind me that it is a protected species and that I have the option of having it captured and moved, but it would most likely just be replaced by another one.

That very first encounter had given me justification to purchase a nice pair of snake boots. I'm sure this snake can strike above the top edge of the boot but the herpetologist said the lowest extremities are the most common bite areas and many bite victims were wearing flip-flops or sandals that afford minimum protection. I also read that a common profile of bite victims is that they're male, young to middle-aged, and inebriated (glad my brother-in-law didn't encounter it) .

Behaviorally, this is most likely a female because it stays in the same location whereas males tend to wander around in search of cloaca . It probably had baby rattlesnakes in July/August (expecting another brood later this year) but their mortality rate is extremely high.

In this recent encounter, the snake behaved very differently. As I had posted last year, I unknowingly stepped within inches of it, and it neither moved nor rattled. There were several discussions as to why it did not rattle. This time, after I took a photo and circled around for another angle about 12 feet from it, it started rattling then reared up as if threatening to strike (although the herpetologist said it often strikes directly from the coiled, head-rested position as seen in the photos), then retreated into a nearby hole. I surmise that this time, I was exhibiting aggressive behavior by looking at it directly while approaching it. Or, perhaps, it was just ornery after having just awakened after months of hibernation.


Here are 2 photos. The first one is from last year and the second one is more recent, taken last week. They appear to be the same individual, but what do I know? "Dem snake all look alike to me."

Photo of last year's viper.


Most recent photo taken May 1, 2012


Same individual? Are their photo IDs sufficient?

[williamlayton]

Why is it not a dead snake?
Blessings

[patvin]

All snakes have distinct pattern (even in the same sp.) on the head, body.....so look for this clue at first (and scars, scales too)...this pics doesn't help too much but i think it is the same specimen regarding white color "points" on the head, but..; try (if you can....) a closer shot (with a zoom of course ) of the head, and body (from above).
Very nice specimen of crotalus, i don't own and breed some, because i like better elapide' snakes.
BTW, thanks to not kill it!
R.

[mc5aw]

If upon going out to the compost bin I looked down and saw that there snake, it would be my last trip to the compost bin ... ever.

[silentflyer]

I would be most happy to help with their "high mortality rate", with some .357 shot shells...

[rifle]

that one is big enough for a hollowpoint....

[Gasman1972]

I'm 90% sure that is not the same snake.

[steamloco76]

Any venomous snake in my back yard would be a dead venomous snake. They have their habitat in the woods and fields, once into my habitat BANG.

I also think you have a new snake this year.

[charlie sherrill]

I like them fried.

[Cocked & Locked]

Nice boots

[brucev]

Kill!!! Kill!!! Kill!!! If there is any doubt that the job got done, then repeat as needed until it is dead!!! Dead!!! Dead!!!

[CAJUNLAWYER]

Get Sip to come stomp on it and say a prayer like he did to that roach

[BearBio]

You can, if you look close, see the head scales to confirm it is a diamondback. Also, the coloration is more typical in these pictures.

It is interesting to note people's reactions based on where they are from. Here in Washington, people are quite paranoid about rattlers. In SoCal, we were more complacent. We had 10 or 13 sub-species and here they have one. After finding my second rattler on my (ex) in-laws driveway, I stopped coming over barefoot at night while we were dating.

Texas Star: Re-reading some of the old posts, I'm sure you've had non-poisonous snakes "rattle" (I've had kings and gopher/bull snakes "rattle" when picked up). I've never seen a hog-nosed act like a cobra but it must be amusing. We've teased tarantulas until they reared up so high they fell over (They raise their front legs as a threat display).

If you really want to see a PO'd rattler, look at Ditmars picture in Reptiles of the World or Snakes of the World (forgot which).

Not to get too off topic but has anyone besides me have a horned lizard spit blood from his eyes?

[Erich]

horned lizard

I have. Ick. I no longer pick them up.

Cute snakes. I leave the rattlers alone, too, and feel that they're kind to warn a fellow off. They're not unpleasant or aggressive like a cottonmouth: I sat there on the back patio a few years back petting a massasauga that I thought was a western garter until it slithered all the way out from behind the chive pot. Eep!

[doc540]

beautiful creature

keep us updated

[REM 3200]

Nice hat band.

[hannstv]

I would have to take a picture of that snake with a telephoto lens....over my shoulder as I hauled.....

[Pete99004]

Next time he/she is out there - try to get it to raise it's head so you can get a better picture, you know poke it something...or pick it up and stretch it out so you can get a better picture.

Pete





PS - just kidding!

[jkc]

The guy from the Phoenix Herpetological Society told you wrong --- Western Diamondbacks are not "protected" except for being regarded as a game species, subject to certain regulations covering legal methods of harvesting them, etc., and requiring a hunting license for harvest. There are two species of AZ rattlers that are "protected" by absolute prohibitions on collecting or killing them, but WD is not. The Herpetological Society members are akin to the shark apologists Texas Star mentioned in the previous thread --- many members are fringe element "conservationists" with a protectionist bent and "warm and fuzzy" outlooks on even the most dangerous of reptiles. They put on a dog and pony show (well, snake and alligator show) that I witnessed recently --- the extent to which some of them had anthropomorphized various pea-brained, cold blooded creatures was pathetic and disturbing. They had a monitor lizard that PHS members were carrying around cradled in their arms as if it were a kitten or puppy. (It must have been well fed, as it did not seize the opportunity to bite off any human body parts...) Several female members insisted to me, with straight faces, that the lizard was more "affectionate" toward female humans than male humans ...

[Lee in Quartzsite]

Looks like a Western Diamondback to me....not a Sidewinder. Here is a photo of the largest Sidewinder track I have ever seen.

[arch stanton]

If it were I, Id up the wifes insurance and send her to the compost bin from now on!

[ol' geeser]

I do not believe they are the same snake...note the white "brow" markings from the rear of the eye toward the front on #2 that are not present on #1...also the scales on the bridge of the "nose" appear to be set at a different angle and have a different texture....the white cheek stripe is different as well...

Bearing local laws into consideration either or both would be residing with cornmeal and onions at my earliest opportunity.....

[jag312]

I'm going out shopping tomorrow morning for a new Stetson. A snake skin hat band would sure look good on my new hat.

[Texas Star]

I want to see the tail stripes. That will sometimes distinguish a Mojave rattler from a WD. On the first, the stripes are more widely spaced.

This snake(s) is/are VERY dangerous, esp. if a Mojave, which has usually got a high neurotoxic element in the venom. It may shut down your respiratory system or heart before you get treatment, and the doctor needs to know that this species was involved. It will possibly affect the antivenin given and his general treatment of the bite.

A solid bite from either species is a GRAVE medical emergency, and you need treatment ASAP. If you are allergc to horse serum, they may not be able to inject antivenin, which leaves you all the more in serious danger of dying or being permanantly impaired. You will SUFFER!!! Even a human breath on your injured leg wil feel very painful, via testimony from bite victims.

Rattlers don't alway rattle. Their strike is extremely fast, too. If you get a full "feeding response" bite, you are in BAD trouble! Stay away from these snakes. Use a long telephoto lens, and be CAREFUL about approaching too closely while looking through the lens. The Dallas zoo herp people told me that they stopped letting people photograph snakes in their work area because so many lost track of how close they were getting to snakes.

You definitely need to be wary of these reptiles and wear no sandals or flip-flops outdoors. And call now and see if local hospitals keep suitable anti-venin on hand. Be aware that many docs are untrained in specialzed trearment of snakebites. Theyre best avoided! (Snakebites)

[wbraswell]

Hmmm, so in Arizona, Diamondbacks are protected, eh. Here in Texas, we think that's a rather amusing point of view. Out in the sticks, is one thing, around my abode is a whole 'nother ball of wax. I probably would make a couple of calls to see if someone wanted it, and would come get it NOW, or it would surely be decapitated.

[captorquewrench]

Originally Posted by LennyLames

....whereas males tend to wander around in search of cloaca .

some things do not change from species to species

I think you have a different snake this year. Different brow markings.

[captorquewrench]

Originally Posted by CAJUNLAWYER

Get Sip to come stomp on it and say a prayer like he did to that roach

You're gonna need a bigger boat.

I mean, boot.

[WrongWay]

Why didn't you shoot it? It would make a good meal and skin for some holsters.

[Lee in Quartzsite]

Originally Posted by wbraswell

Hmmm, so in Arizona, Diamondbacks are protected

Western Diamondbacks are not........

Plus, right now the Diamondbacks are playing lousy baseball.......

[fiasconva]

Kill?...maybe not, but it would certainly be relocated if possible.

[Texas Star]

Originally Posted by fiasconva

Kill?...maybe not, but it would certainly be relocated if possible.

Unless one is a professional snake handler, see my comments on not getting close to one.

Being safe beats being PC.

My guess on the protected species is that they are ridge-nosed rattlers or rock rattlers. ?? Avoid them, too.

[The Last Standing Knight]

Awwww. it's cute!
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I hear they taste like chicken.

[Straightshooter2]

You said it disappeared into a hole in the ground? Hmmm wonder what you might get if you took an old garden hose and poured a few drops of gasoline in that hole.

CW

[Duke426]

Personally, I think you're playin' with fire there, Lenny. Keep it up and eventually you're gonna get burned. JMHO and good luck.

[fat tom]

Originally Posted by The Last Standing Knight

Awwww. it's cute!
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I hear they taste like chicken.

They do when fried,though somewhat chewy.
f.t.

[jws1006]

The herp dude is prolly lyin.Doubt western d back is endangered or protected.
And with all due respect to patvin,as much as I love my boas patvin is nuts,and I mean that in the kindest way.

If noone wants to come capture and relocate for ya, and I mean quick fast and in a hurry.This is a job for a Ruger 10/22 and a 50 round mag. Especially if you put gas down the hole.

[chud333]

I counted the scales on both pictures and the first pictured snake
has 21,090 and the second snake had 21,055 so it's a different
snake.
They are alot easier to identify dead in my experience.
Also Western Diamonbacks are neither threatened or endangered. Google it.


Chuck

[MK]

Originally Posted by wbraswell

Hmmm, so in Arizona, Diamondbacks are protected, eh. Here in Texas, we think that's a rather amusing point of view. Out in the sticks, is one thing, around my abode is a whole 'nother ball of wax. I probably would make a couple of calls to see if someone wanted it, and would come get it NOW, or it would surely be decapitated.

Protected or not, any snake like that I run across is going to
become belt material.
Or at least on my property anyway... I don't want to see them
a second time. I'm paranoid about those things.. I usually wear
snake protectors if I'm tromping where snakes could hide.
I always wear em when I'm mowing tall grass, etc..
I've been using the cheap plastic ones for the last few years.
They seem to work pretty well, and don't bother me to wear them
as they are so light, and fit fairly tight..

[Bob R]

Here in Washington, people are quite paranoid about rattlers.

Just tell those wet siders to be careful in the woods because there is a boa out there and they become even more paranoid. First looking at the gound for biters and then up in the trees for squeezers.

Here on the east side the snakes are starting to come out, now I have to be a little more careful when hunting coyotes.

Having grown up in Oklahoma, and with more than a couple of rattlesnake roundups under my belt, I don't dislike the snakes, but I don't go out of my way to be especially nice to them either.

bob

[Texas Star]

Has anyone here actually tried pouring gasoline down a snake hole? I've read that they are incredibly resistant to gas fumes.

I wouldn't suggest lighting any gas that you've poured down a hole. That could be dangerous, I bet. To you, as well as to the snake.

One poster said that the right solution is a Ruger 10-22 and a fifty round drum, or some such. I understand that the Ruger isn't too accurate right out of the box, but if you need 50 shots to kill a rattler with one, better buy a Marlin M-795SS instead. Mine is certainly accurate enough not to need more than 2-3 shots to kill most snakes. One will surely do it, if a good brain hit. Actually, the most accurate .22 auto rifle I've shot was a Weatherby Mark XXII. Wish that I still had it. With that, you could probably pick the heat sensory pit that you wanted to put a bullet into, if the snake held still a few seconds.

Have any of you shot a coiled snake with a powerful handgun, like a .357 or .44 Magnum? I once shot a lizard with a Hi-Standard .22, and the impact of that little .22 bullet blew the lizard several feet away. Maybe he made a final convlusive leap as the bullet struck? Anyway, what was the effect of the bullet on the snake? Did it actually move it away from where it was?

And there's this bit of trivia. Mexicans sometimes call rattlers snakes "con cuatro narices". (With four nostrils.) They don't grasp that two of those "nostrils" are heat-sensng pits. Further south, people think the Tropical Rattler (Crotalus durissus) can break a man's neck with a strike. It's really because the highly neurotoxic venom affects the neck muscles, causing the victim's head to roll and droop. Bushmaster (Lachesis muta) bites sometimes do that too, with the same rumor associated with them.

Oh: I took a good look at the head markings of the snakes in the photos. They are different snakes.

[Straightshooter2]

Originally Posted by Texas Star

Has anyone here actually tried pouring gasoline down a snake hole? I've read that they are incredibly resistant to gas fumes.

I wouldn't suggest lighting any gas that you've poured down a hole. That could be dangerous, I bet. To you, as well as to the snake.

Many participants in the Sweetwater Jaycee's Rattlesnake Roundup in West Texas use gas to flush out a den and those guys know a good bit about it. In parts of Upson County, GA there are a lot of rattlers and people I know there also use gasoline to flush a nest. As far as lighting gas someone poured down a hole, I wouldn't light it either. This is called an explosion. LOL I can just see that happening and raining P O'ed rattlesnakes.

CW

[LazyKB]

Looks like some of the snakes I saw in church when I was a kid.

[longaction]

In Florida, the game wardens don't want anyone pouring gas into a gopher tortise hole to flush out a snake. They say that it kills the turtle which is endangered.

The photos look like western diamondbacks to me. I would not want them anywhere near a populated area.

Snakes shed their skin several times a year which seems like it would make it tough to identify individuals from year to year.

[Faulkner]

Here's a picture of a timber rattler from the Arkansas Ozarks. Took it from my neighbors yard who's grandkids where playing nearby. We don't see many rattlesnakes in this part of the county and local custom is to properly dispose of them with due haste. I received a good bit of community praise and accolades for promptly and adequately neutralizing this one.

[Gunslinger808]

I the only "protected" rattlers in AZ are the Massasauga, Twin Spotted, Ridge Nosed, and Rock.
Arizona Rattlesnakes

[Texas Star]

Originally Posted by Gunslinger808

I the only "protected" rattlers in AZ are the Massasauga, Twin Spotted, Ridge Nosed, and Rock.
Arizona Rattlesnakes

Well, I guessed two of them! Didn't realize that the Massasauga extended that far west.

[CALREB]

My dog, horses, friends,birds,neighbors cat,are the only PROTECTED things in my yard ! Got alot of gopher snakes hanging around the barn, but if one ever shows up with a rattle, I wont be making any calls to anybody. Gotta save the endangered Kangaroo rats !

[coiler666]

Leave us not forget the parable.."Do Unto Others, before They Do Unto You"....n i love my rattlesnake boots

[bp231986]

Originally Posted by mc5aw

If upon going out to the compost bin I looked down and saw that there snake, it would be my last trip to the compost bin ... ever.

mc5aw you dont want to pet snake!?!?

dont blame ya id be ruuning toward my winchers 1300 defender!!

[Doug M.]

I would not be so fascinated by the snake that I forgot to shoot it, I'll tell you that.