That "If food was no longer available how long would you last?" thread got me to thinking about bears. What would be the minimum calibre for a bear gun that would be strong enough to stop a charging bear while at the same time fit in a gun light enough to carry all day on my hip?

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Forum consigliere

A black bear, .44 and up.

A Grizzly? Before or after he kills you?

.44 Mag up will stop him, but not before he eats you. I've talked to too many guides and grizzly hunters to ever believe any pistol is a high percentage stopper on a Griz. It takes then roughly 3 whole seconds to cover 60 yards. So you figure in a typical brush country encounter you get one, maybe 2 shots....carry a 12 GA w/ 3 inch copper slugs or a 300 up rifle or be Bear poo. Yes, the bear will die from your pistol, after he's cleaned your clock, small victory. JMO.

[QUOTE=CAJUNLAWYER;136519961]That "If food was no longer available how long would you last?" thread got me to thinking about bears. What would be the minimum calibre for a bear gun that would be strong enough to stop a charging bear while at the same time fit in a gun light enough to carry all day on my hip?

JMHO no calibre. Charging bear at close range. There is nothing to stop it. 50 BMG might! +3" 12ga 00 buck might with a head shot.

We have all heard the stories of someone, some where another killing a bear with a pistol. Killing a bear; and killing a charging bear are two thery different things.

At close range shot placement tops all. I live in NC so bear, means Black bear. I don't hunt anymore, but when I did I carried a 6" N frame .41 magum. I still have it, and it is a shooter. I can hit what I aim at ~ 25 yards.
Could this kill a bear? Sure
Could this kill a charging bear?. Maybe if I did my part. First round was always "rat shot". Far more likely to run up on a snake, than a bear.
In bear country I myself would not carry less than .357 S&W.

JMHO
Guy22

There I was, bored and looking for entertainment. Now we have a bear gun thread! Is this place great or what?

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James L. "Jim" Rhiner

I'm new to guns, and an armchair hunter, but my brother's father in law hunted bear in Oregon with dogs for most of his life, and I have sat in on a number of bull sessions which makes me a expert if sorts in this field.

As far as I know, other than the off hunter who happens to stumble across a bear while hunting and also has a bear tag, the only guys who succeed in hunting bears use a pack of mean dogs, a big hunting rifle and a handgun.

Generally the hunt goes like this, the dogs run off and hopefully find a bear, the bear runs for a bit then, mildly annoyed, climbs a tree.

Then the hunter shows up an shoots the bear in the tree with said rifle. At this point the bear either drops dead out of the tree, or drops really, really annoyed out of the tree, and starts to attack the dogs.

Now the hunter very quickly needs to dispatch the bear before he loses the dogs he's been training for years, and often ends with the handgun at near point blank, so as not to hit the dog.

He killed many with one shot, but has a lot of stories of bears that took many rounds and kept right in fighting.

He carried a big dirty harry type revolver, a 357 or 44 i think.

The worst story was a bear that dropped and came not at the dogs at the base of the tree but directly at him. He unloaded his handgun at it, swears every round hit and did not even phase it. He ran and survived, the story goes, by climbimg into thorny bushs the cut him to ribbons and required a lot of stitching. The bear was comming through the thornes ti get him when the dogs attacked from behind. The bear turned around, killed two of the dogs, maimed the rest, and ran off.

I don't know how embellished this tale is, but I've eaten bear at his house, and have seen the rugs.

Personally, I don't like bear enough to ever go through half that much trouble. Every once and a while, if I feel the need I do stalk a steak in the meat dept and stab it with a plastic fork before having the meat lady field dress it in paper and drag it to the checkout counter on the way to my grill.

Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk 2

Eagle River bear-mauling survivor surprised to be alive: Bear Attacks | Alaska news at adn.com


First mauling of the season. Doesn't sound like this guy was carring a gun, but there are plenty of cases where the victim was carrying a gun but the bear was just too quick. I carry a 4" 629 with 300 grain hard cast lead handloads @ about 1200-1250fps. Hope I never have to find out if it's enough.

The caliber isn't as important as the lube you use. When carrying in bear country your best hope is a gun lubed with bacon grease. When you unload on the bear you can throw the gun at him and pray he stops to lick the grease.

The only sure way to stop a charging bear is to take away his credit cards. Then you could go buy some food maybe?
Peace,
gordon

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better have that checked

Having no experience with bears I'll have to rely on hearsay.
My choice would be a .38 spl aimed right between the eyes. It won't damage too much meat for the bears dining pleasure.

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Regards, Ron
USASA 1965/69

15" T/C Encore .338 Winchester Magnum

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Regards,
Guy-Harold Smith II

Every time we have this topic, we get the same responses.

Look: a very experienced bear guide in Alaska told Rifle or Handloader, for which he has written, that he and his daughter considered the matter. They carry Ruger Security-Six .357's with four-inch barrels. They believe that the power is adequate with precise placement. Their .357's are only for emergency protection.

In, Sporting Classics about a year ago, a doctor hunting in Alaska told how he used a .44 Magnum Super Blackhawk to kill a bear that charged him while he was processing the carcass of another bear. He killed the bear!

It can be done and has been done many times. Bears can be killed with handguns, even big browns.

That said, I'd certainly carry a .375 H&H Magnum rifle or .416 for bear defense or a 12 gauge with slugs, probably Brenekkes. But if the rifle or shotgun is just out of reach when needed, I'd have a Mdel 629 with six-inch barrel on my hip.

Anglers should have a rifleman backing them up as they fish.

Don't know what gun to use, but I would bring my wife. She'd stand there and call it foul and hurtful names until it found a hole or a cave to crawl into. She'd stay after it until it was terrified of small, long-haired humans 'till its dying day.

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Hold on. SWAT's at my door.

Caj,

I don't rightly know...How'd I windup here?

Note to self...No drinkin before lunch.

Which is easier to bear...Wakin up or comin too?


Su Amigo,
Dave

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"IN GOD WE TRUST"

Of my handguns I would either carry my 27-2 with some good stout cast bullets like the 358429 cast bullet or 358156 which I have cast and loaded quite a bit. Either that or my old New Service in .45 Colt with some 452424 cast bullets.

Or a slower friend carrying a bag of french fries from 5 Guys.

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Vaya con Dios

I carry one of those squirt bottles of honey -- first bear I see, I'm squirting whoever is with me, then I take off running.

I was once asked by a friend why I carried a dive knife -- I told him:

"First shark I see, I'm cutting you, then I can leisurely swim to the dive boat" .

Caj , I'm no expert but we have a place in New Mexico and lots of black bears in the spring/summer/fall. I like the 327 PD (.357) or the 329 PD (just bought one and will carry it on hikes this summer in Angelfire) -- 26.5 oz - the water I carry will weigh more.. Will bring solid copper core rounds. I would like to find a 357 PD. We carry bear spray and bells (to let the bears know that you are around and don't startle them) -- NM is an open-carry state -- so we carry. We have a couple of rifles and shotguns in our home there but are very very careful to not leave stuff out that attracts bears. The dogs go up there with us (we have nice dog runs) but we feed them inside, so no kibble smell outside. We have had several instances of finding a bear sleeping/resting in our driveway early morning/late afternoon. We pretty much just leave them alone.

reminds me of an off color joke.....

Bill, the bear hunter, is in the woods, sleeping in his tent. Suddenly, his tent is ripped open by a bear. Before he can react, the bear drags him out of his sleeping bag and sodomizes him. When the bear is done, Bill loads up his backpack and leaves the forest immediately.
The next year, Bill returns to the woods. He has had all year to think about it, and he is going to kill that bear. He tries not to fall asleep, but eventualy nods off. As soon as his eyes close, the bear is on him. The bear shreads Bills pants and sodomizes him again. Bill is devastated, and hikes out of the woods again.
Another year passes, and Bill is determined to kill that bear. After 5 days of hunting with no sleep, he falls asleep sitting under a tree. The bear is on him in an instant. The bear has him pinned face down, and whispers in Bills ear......"you're not really here for the hunt, are you?"

A Montana game warden was pinned down by a grizzly they were relocating. He was armed with a S&W M-66 with 158 grain ammo. I was unable to learn just which load.

He fired all six shots in a panic. One hit a vital zone and killed the bear, saving the warden. There were a number of witnesses, inc. a former outdoor magazine editor who wrote it up for publication.

I also know of a case where a man being dragged off by an African lion killed it by stabbing it in the heart. His blade was just six inches long, but worked.

I would think a gun in .22 short would be adequate. Shoot your partner in the knee and take off.

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John. SWCA #1586

All I need is a .22 short, 'cause first shot is goin' in Cajunlawyer's knee for startin' this here thread. Then all I gotta do is outrun a limpin' lawyer.

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Insert short witty words here

I once read of an individual who killed a grizzly with 6 shots from his .22 caliber revolver.

Therefore using some logic a .22 revolver is quite suitable for grizzly.

All of his shots were in the roof of the grizzly's mouth. So one has to get close to be effective.

However not many folks want to wait for a grizzly to get that close.

Maybe something bigger would be more prudent?

Seriously, I would not want to rely on any handgun to try to stop a true charging grizzly, brown, or polar bear.

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Have guns...will shoot'em.

This subject is debated constantly around here. In tyhe late 70s early 80s Dept of the Interior USGS and BLM had several maulings and two fatalities. When I worked for BLM in 1984 they had a study which disqualified all hand guns and shot guns with buck shot past 5 yards. Slugs were good only to 10 yards. These were shots fired into bear hides and carcases. The large brown bear was the problem. 7MM Magnum would blow up on bone as would the .338 at these close ranges. With out trying to go through several pages the best choice was the .375 H&H no suprise there but the recommended was the 30-06 with 220 grain slugs as they found they could teach the largest number of employees to shoot it well. Remember this was 30 years ago some of the new calibers and ammo may be different. The Bear hasn't changed large animal protected vitals and very low pulse rate so it bleeds out slow.

Oh man, you did it now. I never thought you'd stoop so low as to a "bear" thread. Sorry I'm late to the party and havn't read all the posts. I'm just wingin-it. Thats just 45-70 MEAN!

That's the one my friend!

Remember, wounded lawyers are VERY dangerous.

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James L. "Jim" Rhiner

A .22 is all ya really need.
Put the barrel in the bear's ear - pull the trigger several times - problem solved.

A 45-70 revolver would be nice - A bit of a drag toting one about though.
The .22 is much lighter, easier to carry, and faster to get into that ear.

Yep - A .22 is all ya really need...

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In dog years I'm dead.

The game warden was Lou Kis and he was using 158 grain JHP's in that gun. Four shots hit the bear in the head but would not penetrate, one missed and the fifth went into the bear's throat and broke his spine. I would have to say Mr. Kis was a pretty cool customer to get five out of six shots on target all the while with the bear biting down on his leg.

Loaded for Bear: Handgun Self-Defense for Bears - Gun News at Guns.com

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Vaya con Dios

Dang...you beat me to it...

Caj have you gone Continental?

Ummm ... Caje, they even got bears down there? Or are you plannin' on travel?

One of the conditions was that you'd be havin' it on your hip all the time. Its easy to carry a gun when you're out walkin and stuff. But if its a heavy one, you'll want it off your hip as soon as you can. Which pretty much limits you to one of the ultra light guns. I'm not sure if the caliber makes a whole lot of difference. I think the general consensus will be the 44 mag isn't heavy enough, so the 41 and 357 are even more marginal. So the whole answer depends on how light you're willing to go. If you accept the 357, you really have a little choice because you can carry one of the painful Js, or one of the 386s.

My original thought was .458 and I still think I'd feel OK with one. Even a little wimpy .30-30 would be better than a handgun. And I like the 12ga idea. But they don't fit on your hip. Basically the criteria eliminates any really effective gun. That being the case, hire a body guard. Or live in a tank.

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Dick Burg

Stick it in it's ear.....okaaayyy...sounds good to me. Let me know how that works out for ya....

Just curious...was the shooter IN the bears mouth when he shot it....?

I have enjoyed bear stories for many years. My Dad got me interested in reading about bears, especially big bears. Grizzly's, Browns, Kodiak. One story that stands out involved two friends that were in the military in Alaska. They were air-sea rescue or the like, and were obviously in extremely good shape, and in their late 20's or early 30's as I remember. They were experienced hunters that knew the terrain well, and were prepared with the proper gear for their hunt. Had they not been trained and conditioned the way they were, they would simply have died. They shot a sow who ended up ambushing them. She was on one of them, and it became necessary for one friend to shoot the bear while it was on his buddy. The bullet passed through the bear, and into his friend, his leg I think, who had already been "run over" by this wounded bear. They got out of there, having to traverse a fairly large lake in weather that had turned extremely bad, the one guy carrying the other. They went back by chopper and got the trophy, which was a record size bear with a neck that was 30" +. But the description of the bear, and it's power was what impressed me. They said that after their initial shot; and they had very serious rifles with silver tip ammo of some kind that was very thoroughly described, that the bear was relatively easy to track, because it went through a grove of smaller 4-6" trees, alders I think, just like a bulldozer! The wounded man was soon to be married, with his friend (who shot him) as his best man. The wedding went as scheduled, albeit with the groom in a wheel chair. The story was probably 10-20 years ago, but it was dramatic enough that it may still be around somewhere. Some of you all may remember it. My thought was that even with the guns and preparation these guys had, all they did was shoot a bulldozer and make it mad! The other extreme in bear encounters that I read involved two brothers who were hiking in Yellowstone, or somewhere like that-a national park (no guns at this point) when they were charged by Mr. Grizzly. They turned and rebuked it in the name of Jesus in unison, and the bear turned around and fled. So here is my order of response to large threatening creatures, bears especially: first, The name of Jesus, followed, if necessary, by bear spray, and finally, an M-60 machine gun with a 100 round belt. Flapjack.

My vote would be 10mm

I've been fortunate to have bowhunted in Bear & wolf country in Canada, Colorado and in(DG) Dangerous Game country in South Africa, I've also knife hunted boar in Tn & TX. The best gun in the world to have is the one you have mastered. In Africa they say always use enough gun...but, you need to be able to shot it well.

The 2nd part of the equation is you. If you can not master your own fear you are already lost. I've seen more than one big tough hombre freeze up hog hunting, when a black bear snapped its teeth or when the wolves howled 100yrds out.

I think the 2nd part is more important with DG as you can not reason with a 4 legged threat and reloading is seldom an option.

About 8 yrs ago I bought a Freedom Arms model 83 in .454 to carry as a belly gun while Bowhunting Elk in SE Colorado. We keep a few shotguns in camp in case we got an Elk down and only carried them when packing meat. This was a Black bear area, to the best of our knowledge no Griz or Wolfs. We did find one set of Cougar tracks at the timber line.

I realized pretty fast that I was better off putting 6 on target with my .44 than 2 in the same time with the .454. So, the .44 was retained as my belly gun. For me the .44 mag is the best handgun to carry in the field. My favorite round is CorBon 320G HC

For Griz, Brownies, Wolves I would not want to be afield with out at least a 12g a with slugs, better a .45-70 and preferably .458win...LOTT would be better still.

Of course your best weapon is still your mind. Don'y go afield unarmed . The whole point is NOT getting into a fight with a bear in the 1st place. Woodsman skill save more lives than firearms.

Knock yourself out with that 22 idea, personally I'd NEVER go that route.

The best thing for bear country is the new Smith & Wesson Model 577, it is a 5 shot in .577 Nitro-Express. No longer loaded with Cordite, this modernized cartridge uses 147grains of that old favorite Bullseye behind a 500 grain solid.
The revolver is available with either 6” or 8 3/8” barrels.
S&W is prepared to guarantee that a center body hit will kill a Brown Bear.

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Ipsis Rebus Dictantitbus

I live just over the mountain from where the MT game warden shot the bear. Here are the pics. As you can see it happened so fastI find it hard to believe the warden had time to shoot. NOTICE! He is carrying a S&W in his holster!. I read it was a 44 mag and a 357 mag both. I don't know the truth but I bet I could find out if I had a mind to.

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The final three pics.

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Last fall a griz got into my garage! Because she could!

There she is in my front yard! 30 yards from my front door.

John

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There are actually some "Bear Crossing" signs on the highway
(Hwy 90), in the Morgan City area, just south of where Caj lives -- there are black bears in the lower Atchafalaya Basin.

So from readin' this here thread, I'm disposed ta thinkin' they ain't no handgun that'll do the job. Think I'll just be carryin' a knive.....worked for ol' Dan'l, oughta work fer me.......

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Even older, even crankier....

caje,
Just remember to wear the bells and carry pepper-spray.
And Stainless dog tags. The first two will help searchers to
locate your remains, and the dog tags will put a name with
the remains. TACC1

Here abouts (West Tennessee) THEEE preferred method was to grin 'em ta death.
Seems to be pretty effective - There haven't been any bears in WTN for quite a while.

One might also note that back *In The Day* kids as young as 3 were killing bears.
No wonder they're all gone....

AND - To all y'all that pshaw my idea of using a .22 --- You do realize that I was referring to a .22LR - Right?
Not one of the wimpy .22s, like a short or CBI.

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In dog years I'm dead.

A black bear has been destroying deer feeders on a sugar cane farm I am involved in. The hunting club members notified the game warden who is supposed to set out a trap soon. If they trap the bear they will relocate it, if it has been trapped for that before it will be "euthanized"

Bears are not common in South Louisiana, but I believe their numbers are increasing. I have only seen one in the 50 years I've been living here it was on the side of the road, dead I believe, near the bear crossing signs, mentioned by Col Jagdog above, near Morgan City, La.

Steve W

In this young man's humble opinion i think at minimum a .44 magnum revolver with a 4 inch barrel for easier carry. would do the job but the shooter would have to have a lot of practice with the gun before carrying it in bear country.

I have enjoyed reading this thread and smiled a lot. However, my daughter goes hiking in places where bears are and wants to buy something to take with her. It has been suggested that she carry everything between a .40 cal SA to a .45 cal., mostly for the noise factor.

Would a revolver be better?

I have heard of the Judge and the Governor with the buckshot loads, but I think that she would have to be much closer to a bear than anyone would one to be for that to be effective.

She has been going to the local range and shooting various makes and models of SA's trying to find the one that she likes best.

Well..............I would proboby reach over and wake-up Leory my "swamper".........cuzz he anit never seen nobody run like im fixin to do

Here ya' go....just keep a fat friend with you.

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Laus Deo! <><

In my opinion I would carry nothing less than a 44 mag in a double action and bear spray.

John