Hey gang. I recently traded for a nice Smith and Wesson revolver with the pin on the hammer but as karma would have it the gun, while in great shape, unfortunately has pushoff. This means when you cock the hammer you can use a small amount of thumb pressure and push the hammer to drop. I am now forced with sending it back to Smith and Wesson to get it repaired.

While extremely frustrating to have gone through a trade plus cash only to get a gun that was not 100% and now have to spend more money to get it repaired I want to help others avoid my mistake. BUT I need your help! Please help me fill out a checklist below for our forum members to benefit from.

NOTE - this is a rough draft and I am not sure how to make some of the checklist more specific that is why I am asking for help.

First - Buyer Beware - while photos might show a gun in LNIB or pristine shape it does not mean it actually is. Please have the seller answer the questions below.

Second- Revolver Checklist
When buying a revolver from the Guns for Sale/Trade or Gunbroker, etc
1. Please describe the functional state of the gun - have you fired it recently, any issues, has it been worked on by a gunsmith or by Smith and Wesson or other manufacturer, if so what custom work has been done
2. Please describe the condition of the gun including finish, spotting, rust, grips, accessories like box, paperwork, tools
3. How many rounds of ammo have been fired through it and what kind (.357 vs .38 might make a difference)
4. With the cylinder in if you shake the revolver does the cylinder shake as well
5. With the hammer cocked can you push with your thumb and drop the hammer without pulling the trigger
6. Can you rotate the cylinder without pulling back the hammer
7. What is the condition of the barrel, the rifling, the area under the ejector star, the chamber mouths, are carbon rings evident, the forcing cone, etc (this might make sense under 1)
8. What is the condition of the sights (if any)
9. Any aftermarket parts like Wolff Springs, grips, night sights or fiber sights, etc
10. When was the last time the gun was cleaned

(side note - upon close inspection of my trade the gun still showed fouling in the barrel and under the ejector star plus carbon fouling on the cylinder end - I am going to ask Smith to do a thorough inspection and cleaning when I send it in)

What else???

Third- Semi Auto Checklist
When buying a semi-auto from the Guns for Sale/Trade or Gunbroker, etc
1. Please describe the functional state of the gun - have you fired it recently, any issues, has it been worked on by a gunsmith or by Smith and Wesson, if so what custom work has been done
2. Please describe the condition of the gun including finish, spotting, rust, grips, accessories like box, paperwork, tools
3. How many rounds of ammo have been fired through it and what kind (9mm vs 9mm +P might make a difference)
4. With a magazine in the gun will it hold the slide back if you rack the slide
5. With the hammer cocked can you push with your thumb and drop the hammer without pulling the trigger (if applicable)
6. If you insert a magazine and push the mag release lever does the magazine fall free, fall part way, not fall
7. What is the condition of the magazines? Do they have original springs, have they ever been taken apart and cleaned, how long have they been loaded, any burrs or marks especially where it feeds into the chamber
8. What is the condition of the barrel, the rifling, the feed ramp, the recoil springs
9. What is the condition of the slide release, if the slide is locked back and you activate it on an empty gun (no mag) does it release the slide
10. What is the condition of the safeties (if any), does the safety prevent the trigger from firing the gun, if multiple safeties like a grip or mag disconnect have these been tested to make sure they work, has the gun been modified in any way to disable a factory safety feature
11. What is the condition of the sights (if any)
12. Any aftermarket parts like Wolff Springs, grips, night sights or fiber sights, etc
13. When was the last time the gun was thoroughly cleaned

What else??

One last item - I am not using this post to call anyone out or put them in the spotlight in case the other party ever sees this post. My fault for not asking the right questions and this is my way of helping folks avoid the issue I ran into.

Thanks for the help gang.

A problem I see is that many sellers will not want to respond to such a detailed list.

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Good pictures tell a lot about the outside. I'm mainly interested in mechanical and barrel condition.

It doesn't hurt to ask and if they are honest enough, folks will answer.

The pictures is what made me go for the trade in the first place but while the gun is probably 99% bluing mechanically it has a flaw.

This is why I would never buy a used gun unless I could inspect it in person first. If a FTF sale is not possible, then I would only consider buying a used gun if the seller allowed an inspection at the receiving FFL before transfer, and agreed to provide a full refund if there was any problem with the gun discovered.

It might be less aggravation to have a local gunsmith take a look at it. Maybe he can repair it without shipping it to the factory.
Just a suggestion.

Myron

I haven't seen/handled any S&Ws (that I can remember) which could be accurately described as 98%+ cosmetically AND had mechanical flaws. More often than not, no visible wear, a faint/nonexistent turn line, etc. will indicate a revolver has seen minimal usage and is in strong mechanical shape. Any signs of external wear would make me be more cautious about internal issues. If not FTF, I've tried to make purchases from folks I know on forums, who have reputations of selling/trading quality firearms and square dealings.

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I'm with the banned ...

I like the idea of talking with a person on the phone before I go beyond expressing an interest. There are plenty of people that I won't deal with. If somebody won't speak with me on the phone, no deal. I want to have a "feel" for the personality and credibility of a person when dealing with them. If I don't have a good feeling, I find a way to not make the deal.

One other thing to stress. Before meeting anybody for a deal, make sure somebody else that isn't with you knows who you are meeting, where, and any details you have on the person you are meeting like their phone number,car,etc. Call or text that person when you arrive and after you leave. Have a time for them to call you if they don't hear from you. I would also recommend taking a friend and letting the person you are meeting know that. I'll call shortly before the appointed time and say something like " Oh, I'll have a friend with me if that's OK? " If it's not, that's a red flag for me.

These are good proceedures whether you are buying or selling bicycles, collectables, or firearms.

I bought a 14-4 on GB last summer, flawless in pics, 98%+, and it looked to be pretty much unfired. Gun was listed as no returns. I rolled the dice and bought it. When I received the gun cosmetically it was perfect, and it did indeed look to be pretty much unfired. Unfortunately though, the cylinder rubbed on the barrel on two chambers. The gun came with box, paperwork and all accessories still sealed in the bag, so I can only assume that the gun left the factory in this condition.
I just sucked it up and returned it to the factory, and $125 later I do have a mint 14-4, though a good deal turned out to be not so good a deal.
I guess to make a long story short, pictures don't always reveal everything!

I'm not trying to rub salt in the wound here, but if you send it back to the factory, be prepared to pay your own shipping costs on top of any repairs.
Smith & Wesson will only pay shipping on warranty repairs.

Yours won't be warranty because:
1) If it has a hammer mounted firing pin, it sounds old enough that the warranty was only one year back then.

2) You are not the original owner of the gun. S&W's literature states that the warranty is extended to the original owner only.

With that in mind, if you have a reputable gunsmith near you, it may not hurt to ask for a quote.

You can use a short list for the initial testing. While I have bought guns that had to be shipped to my FFL I felt the onus was on me after the initial checks.
1. Push off, now you know about it. Caused by wear or amateur gun smithing. Also check for "hair trigger". I've seen home gun smithed guns that would push off and or fire by barely touching the trigger, even touching the side of the trigger would cause them to fire.

2. Buggered screws or marks that indicate the side plate has been removed incorrectly.

3. End shake or end play which is excessive cylinder movement front to back.

4. Poorly polished and reblued by parties unknown. Perhaps they also did an action job.

5. Cycle the action, if it seems loose, it is.

6. Check the front of the frame to see if there is a gap between the frame and the cylinder/yoke arm. This could indicate it is sprung or bent. Most likely by some one slamming the cylinder shut by twisting the wrist quickly ala hollywood.

If you see any of the above it is best to walk. Most of us here have overlooked something once or twice. It is how some of us paid our dues to learn more about this hobby. I used to repair guns for gun shops. It so happens many of those repairs were to guns LGS owners had taken in trade. Even a pro can miss some things.

Get a short list and grade the gun using the short list. Again, be prepared to lay it down and continue your search. If you lay out a long list be prepared to hear either I don't know or answers specifically designed to assuage your fears and concerns (lies).