Our good friend mc5aw, recently posed the question of which is better for a combat revolver, 44 or 45. I stated that neither 44 or 45 ,in my humble opinion, was the best. Without hijacking his thread , I will give you my thoughts, and would like to hear yours, on what comprises the design of a good/best "fighting" revolver. Keep in mind probably the best combat handgun is still an autoloader, but for 44years I have carried and trusted revolvers in the mud the blood and the beer , since I first strapped on a Model 19 in 1969 . The first thing is caliber, 357 magnum in the modern loadings works and is a good size for handguns. Second , it allows 7 rds in L-frame and 8 rds in N-frames, a decent capacity. Rivaling the 45 Gov't out of the gate{much slower at best on the reload however}. Now for the design , and keep in mind doable with existing guns on a semi-custom basis. For an L-frame , start with a 681, cut the barrel to 3 1/2 inches{full extraction] use 1/2 underlugged barrel ie. Model 27/ 38/44hd profile , fit 7-shot cylinder and round the butt and install big dot front sight with glow in the dark feature, tailor the trigger guard to Bill Jordan profile{narrow}, bob the hammer and make smooth trigger and adjust trigger pull wt to lowest possible setting and still have 100% reliability with all brands of ammo. For an N-frame Revolver, do the same modifications , only start with the older NY model 520 and install an 8 shot cylinder. These are my thoughts on the BEST Combat revolver for a serious Mud , The blood and Beer revolver. I should say if 4 legged defense is needed ,I would not argue against using 44 or 45 caliber guns and truth be told, I have been known to use one of those new fangled Gov't 45 1911 Cavalry pistols for defensive use , but at heart I am a "revolver" guy.

Now Joe,

Ya know I'm a .44, er mabee a .45 caliber kinda guy....

Oh,,,,,,I've may have used a .357 a time er two my ownself as well.


Pick one..........

.45 Long Colt, .44 Special, .357 Magnum



Su Amigo,
Dave
.

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"IN GOD WE TRUST"

Joe ... Of my various K/L frame .357s, I have a 65 3" with low profile fixed sights that is as perfect a "fighting" revolver as I've owned. What's your preference between K/L and N frames for .357?

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I'm with the banned ...

Mc5aw, I agree with you and for years carried both 3in 13's and 65's but have now gone to a 681 3in performance center model with the 7-shot cylinder. The "feel" is much the same and in concealment holsters the wt. seems the same{even tho it is slightly heavier} The main reason is seven shots rather than six. It reloads as fast and with Farrant checkered palm swelled stocks absolutely does not move under recoil. When I carry an N-frame it typically is a 44 or 45, and do not get me wrong, I like those calibers but they are heavy guns and are usually carried in a heavy holster and gun belt much like those that Keith44spl makes. {they make carrying a heavy gun easy} I should also mention, as posted above by Dave, I have a hard time arguing Calibers with a man that I suspect has been "over the hill and seen the elephant " a time or two. But , this is a discussion among good friends who enjoy each others Posts and company.

I'd go with a later stainless Ruger Security Six 4" .357 with the heavy barrel. Easy enough to holster carry and it would last forever.

Joe Kent is correct ... for a COMBAT REVOLVER the .357 magnum is the best. However, Joe complicated it by adding a lot of really cool customization. Fine if you feel the need.

The best Combat Revolver ever made is the Smith and Wesson Model 686+ Mountain Gun.

The '+' model adds an extra round and the Mountain Gun utilizes a thinner, lighter barrel than standard Model 686.

Case Closed

Thank you.

Now Joe, you know you can't use anything for gunfighting that dosen't start with a ".4". Look at how "outgunned" all those poor LEO's were for all those years.

Seriously, though, I would not be uncomfortable with a .357. I personally think the .44 or .45 is a better choice. More of a personal comfort zone, I guess.

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James L. "Jim" Rhiner

Need I say more?

If you read that thread of Mc graws you seen my .44s and .45s I posted along with my ideas. Okay, here are my .357s. I also have more .44s and .45s in longer longer barrels and also in colt and ruger single actions but didnt post those as he wanted short barrels and just double actions.
Through the years I have owned and sold many six guns. I never noticed that it was such a passion of mine while I was doing it untill I got old, looked at what I have accumilated and thought of ones I let go.
Wonder if any carpenters or mechanics spent much time discussing what brand and weight of hammer or wrench was the best or would do a better job? What color fly swatter is best?
Truth is any .38, (maybe), .357, 41 mag, 44 spec, 44 mag, 45 acp or 45 colt will do the job. Any finish, pacs, stags or ivorys wont change the outcome. Also I doubt the outcome will be different if you are useing a smith, colt or ruger. Its how good YOU are with it and your mind set. Its what you can shoot the best with. I never shot anyone so dont consider myself a expert. Who knows? Maybe I would freeze up?
Anyway, here are my .357s. What would likely kill me is takeing the time out trying to figure out what gun to use! I aint showed you my .38s yet either!
Right now I dont have my old model colt trooper in .357 in 4", but I carried it the most on my job and there was something about it that I liked the best. Really, it was the same as a python but without the extra weight of the heavy lugged barrel. I will show a .38 version of it in the last picture that allen frame sold me a few years ago, Thanks Allen!

I am a huge fan of the good ole 4" model 19 or model 27 and 28 preferred in that order.

If I needed to shoot somebody, my choices of revolver would be either my 3" 65 or my 4" 29.

One of these days, I've got to make a concealment holster for my 29.

A true fighting revolver has fixed sights IMO.

Someone here coined the term "fightin' 58" and I gotta agree! A bit heavy on the belt , but very comforting.



Wouldn't mind having a nice 3 or 4in Model 65 to fill this gap!

But for when I can make due with something a bit smaller , my 3in HB 36 or 2in Airweight Chiefs fill the bill.




And certainly these guys have proven themselves worthy in combat the likes of which I'll undoubtly never see , but stand readily and ably by.



And last but not least , a good SAA in .45 Long Colt has saved as many lives as it has taken.\

Never having been in combat I can't give expert advice. However I've shot a lot of 357 and 44 mag. The 44 is just too hard to control for rapid fire. My choice would be .357 or maybe .44 sp if I had plenty of reloading supplies.

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Regards, Ron
USASA 1965/69

breakingbad, I do agree with your choice of the 686 Mt. Gun {pre-lock of course} and have a pair of them, they are favorites. The edge in a perfect world still goes to fixed sights on a combat revolver. I have knocked the hell out of S&W adjustable sights getting in and out of cars {wearing Sam Brown Blk Basket weave belts and Jordan Holsters}. The same with enclosed ejector rods. Believe it or not, I've got a pair of fixed sight Model 19P's that were developed and sold to a South American Police force and when I asked S&W's foreign salesmgr. why they didn't just buy Model 13's he said the Chief said he needed enclosed ejector rods because his men sometimes used the revolver as clubs. These features were the criteria for a "perfect" fighting revolver. All my very best, Joe.

jlrhiner, Jim I've used that line myself any number of times in the past right up to the time in a squad room where a good friend and police trainer was making the case for 45's when a grizzled old gray haired detective raised his hand and when recognized made the factual statement that the last 3 guys he shot with a 38 Special went down with one shot each. He was one cool under fire vet who had seen more than his share of up close and personal combat in both WW11 and Korea. I always listened to his advice and counted him a good friend up until he passed.

Man O' Man, you guys have shown some of the best carry Combat revolvers I've seen. This is what i have to offer in pairs.

2 chiefs specials, side by each in a Kramer T- shirt.
a Smith 3914 and a Sig 239, same holster
2 Colt Detective Specials, same place.
S&W model 411, and a Walther P88.
S&W model 39, and a Beretta 96, 40 cal.
well that about it.

This 681 pc sounds like the op's favorite. Cut for 7 shot moonclips, too.

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God spelled backwards is dog.

Any gun is better than none. A .22 beats the heck out of a pocket comb under any circumstance! I regularly carry a 442, which is a fine revolver designed for concealed carry, and with modern ammunition is a great SD gun! I am a fan of .45 ACP or Colt, and my mountain gun does great service, both for in town or woods defense, depending again on the load being used. There is nothing wrong with .357 either. I like the 8 shooters, but it doesn't take all that long to reload if necessary, and as I've said several times, if you need more than 6 you're hangin' out with the wrong crowd! As far as semiautos go, 9s have the round count advantage, .40 has great street cred, and who in their right mind would argue with a .45? Keep in mind that it's all about shot placement. Quite honestly, I have most recently shot my best with my 19-3.

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Even older, even crankier....

Reckon why they call it a Mod 19 COMBAT MAGNUM....nuff said!

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War Eagle!!!

In a factory gun, with fixed sights, bbl length usefull for a quick draw and long enough to shoot well, cartridge large enough for two or four legged critters and we are with the mod 58 and any other contenders far back.

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Front sight and squeeze

The biggest problem with any of the magnum calibers starting with the number 4 is fast recoil recovery not so much with the 44Special,45ACP , and 45 Colt. THe question remains carry an L-frame with 7 shots or an N-frame with 6 bigger rds. My thought on the N-frame still goes to an 8 shot 357. I have one of the very few Model 27-7 8 shot 4in barrelled pre-lock blued revolvers that is a hell of a good magnum, it just has adjustable sights. That being said, it still is a keeper and it pairs up well with my 627 Bloodwork snubby.

I'd pick a Model 65-5 Ladysmith .357 if I needed a combat revolver. Fixed sights, shrouded ejector rod, 3" barrel. Just a wonderful sidearm.

MJR, I agree , just can't bring myself to "BOb" the hammer on a great collectible as well as use'n gun. Very Neat. Joe

I have a second hammer I bobbed for my 686. Put the original away. (Hey! What can I say. I'm moody.)

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James L. "Jim" Rhiner

I'm partial to 3" K-frames myself. Feel great in my hand - the best balanced revolver there is.....

The best combat revolver is the M625 Mountain Gun, chambered in .45 ACP.

I carried a 5" M625 .45 ACP for a while, but that full lug barrel made for a heavy gun. S&W didn't have any Mt Gun barrels in stock, but I did find a full lug 3" barrel. The weight was much better, but I found the sight radius was a mite short.

I had carried several N frame revolvers in the past and I had a set of large speedloader pouches. I carried two full moon clips with the bullets down, topped by two full moon clips, bullets up. So, I was carrying 24 rounds instead of 12.

During qualifications, I was able to reload as faster or faster than most of my fellow officers that were armed with semi-autos.

Soon as I could find and afford a M625 Mt Gun, I bought one. I much prefer the longer barrel and occasionally carry it as my CCW.

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

I havent yet got much into carrying this pencil barrel model 36 3" yet but after hefting it against my other stuff I am talking myself into it. I bought it off the net a few years ago and it came new in the box unfired. Not bad for a made in 1970 gun! Theresa shot it and claimed it hers the first day. I been kind of hopeing she forgot about it. It being so light is a big temptation to carry. I dont think we shot a half box through it yet, but thats about to change! I bought a nice pancake for it and set of ugly pachmeyers.

What can I say? I'm a traditionalist. This Model 13 is my primary CCW. uploadfromtaptalk1361419505779.jpg

This Model 37 is with me all the time, on or off duty. (My duty gun is a Model 686.)
uploadfromtaptalk1361419531735.jpg

ECS

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk 2

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CPT, Armor (Ret)
Luke 22:36

My K-frame collection includes my Model 64-3, my Model 66-2 which was my first S&W; and my Model 13-3 and Model 65-3. Except for the Model 66-2, which has a 2.5" barrel, my other K frames have 3.0 inch barrels.

Regards,

Dave

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^^^This. For defensive purposes, I much prefer a 1911 over any revolver, but if I had to make do with a sixgun, a pre-lock .45 ACP Mountain Gun would be my top choice.

FWIW, I do not care for the .357 as a defensive cartridge: too much drama, too little bullet. That said, in short barrels, it can be used to set your enemy on fire or scare him to death with noise.

Hope this helps, and Semper Fi.

Ron H.

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Wishin' don't make it so.

I heard a Story once about a Cheif of Police in Texas who attended a function with his off duty revolver (no idea what it was). A women asked the Cheif "are you expecting trouble?" The Cheif replied; "no maam, if I expected trouble I would have brought a rifle". Combat and Revolver doesn't go together. nuff said.

I'm probably not qualified to offer this because, over a thirty year career I never fired a single round from my M9 or 1911 outside the range. I have however fired a couple of semi's full of 5.56 in combat.

Enough with the caveats. I'm an old retired geezer on a fixed income that can't afford to shoot expanding bullets. I shoot lead. If I had to defend myself with a handgun I want to poke large clean holes, preferably holes that leak front and back so my "get off me gun" is a Mod25 4" .45LC with 300 gr hard cast, lots of meplat and a sharp shoulder that cuts the diameter of the grease bands. If that don't get the job done I should have brought a rifle.

Semper Fi

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Make mine an N Frame

Agree with Infantryweaponsofficer,
If i'm going into "Combat" my pistols will probably not leave
my belt. But that said, if i had to choose one and only one
revolver to take to a fight it would be a model 520
Because i like the N-frame as it fits my hands well.
And IMHO the .357 is perfectly suited to stop anything on
two legs with a good bullet. Recoil is very manageable and
Most importantly, (it's what i feel comfortable with).

Chuck

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They hold no Quarter

I thought the M-520 was basically a fixed-sight M-28 made for the NY State Police, who chose another gun instead. The 520's were then sold on the civil market. They're N-frames, not L-frames.

Am I confused? The L-frames have names like 586, 686, 681, etc.

My optimum combat revolver is probably my M-66-3 in four-inch with Pachmayr Presentation grips. The Ruger GP-100 is heavier, but kicks less. Not really too bad to wear in the right holster. I prefer the balance of the GP to the M-686. I think it also holds up better over the long run with full loads.

Indoors, I load Plus P .38 ammo. Firing indoors without ear protection with full .357 ammo will not benefit your hearing.

For a concealed gun, the M-65 with three-inch bbl. seems good. Ditto for the Ruger Speed-Six with 2.75-inch bbl. and round butt. That Model 19P for the Peruvian police that Joe Kent mentioned and the same basic thing as the Ladysmith M-65 are fine, too.

I prefer stainless steel.

Well... A bit silly for me to reply to this thread, because I live in the Netherlands and we are ABSOLUTELY not allowed to use our guns for anything other than sportshooting... But I still wanted to show off my 686 CS-3 (customs service) because it's such a nice revolver and at a certain point considered as the ultimate combat magnum, if I'm not mistaken.( I hope I can post a picture... )

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I chose the 7-shot 686 in three inch trim as my Ultimate Revolver, this one is slicker than possum poop and the "real" sights help my older eyes get on target faster. The K-frame grip fits my hands well without being overly large, I can load 38's if I want to, and while it may not be as fast to reload as some, it's more likely to put hits on target in my hands, and preclude the need to reload.





I have several three-inch revolvers, but this one is The Queen.

Fargo-

Yes, that definitely qualifies, especially if worn openly. If you like the Hogue grips, it's as good as anything.

I feel bad for you and Theur, having to live where you can't meaningfully defend yourselves.

true true ... can't argue ...

also impossible to find a {pre-lock or not} Mountain Gun around here anyway ... impossible

... and it not being a perfect world and hence having to compromise - I am vindicated and I thank you! :-)

Why? - because you own TWO of them! :-)

Case Closed

breakingbad, as a young patrolman I loved carrying my 4in Model 19 and if they ever needed an old codger to again put on his Sam Brown rig and get in a patrol car with a revolver, it would be a 686+ pre-lock mt. gun. The only serious problem in doing that is my Sam Brown belt suffers from "closet shrink" I do not remember it being wet when I hung it up, but it has certainly gotten much smaller over the years.

I know exactly what you mean about closets and their deleterious effects on clothing, belts and so on.

I wonder if the "future codgers" of today really appreciate how fine is a revolver like the Mtn Gun, and others like it? That even tho' they don't hold 18 rounds of 9mm or 14 rnds of .45 ACP, they are deadly in the hands of shootists. That there is a classic timelessness to these older revolvers that a polymer gun does not have.

I had this 586 built as my "get to my rifle" handgun. It started life as a 6" that got a bubba action job. I bought it cheap, sent it back to the factory for a few mods and made a few minor tweaks of my own.

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Regards,
Guy-Harold Smith II

very nice
what "-" number?
Did you cut the barrel to 4"?
who made the grips?
refinished of course

Unlikely...many of the guys on my department, even the younger firearms instructors, HAVE NEVER HANDLED A REVOLVER (), let alone shot one. Now and again I'll pull out my first duty sidearm, a 4" Model 27, and educate a few of them. I really like that old 27 and would take that into a fight any day of the week.

Thanks for catching that Sir,
Typo and i have changed it. I have "fat" hands and prefer
an N-frame myself. The 520 would work for me.
I like the looks of Blued steel better as a personal preference.

Chuck

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They hold no Quarter

There is no best. It ain't the arrows, it's the Indian.....

I'm going to have to say my Ohio Highway Patrol 681. That action is SLICK. Kinda like an ice cube on water. Handles like a dream.

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Un-Reconstructed Southerner

TS,

S&W recycled the M520 model number a few years back and the "new" M520 was indeed an L frame. IIRC, it was a 7 shot .357 and it used a two piece barrel. I believe it also had the LOCK.

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John 3:16
WAR EAGLE!

Correct Muley Gil,
The newer 520 is indeed an L-frame. 7 shot
I prefer the older N-frame 520's
Chuck

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They hold no Quarter

If I had to choose one it would be a model 58.

Joe, sorry I was busy today. Was this why you called?

Three of Joe's revolvers mentioned above:






Please excuse the photography.

I have always preferred a 3' model 13. And for a speedload, another 3" model 13. @ K frames are a bit heavier than 1 N frame, way lighter than 2 L frames, no fragile, sissy adjustable sights, and if you add Tylers to the magna stocks, they fit me personally very well.
Leather? we don' need no steenking leather!!