Not starting a caliber war but looking for opinions

[Ogandydancer]

I have seen a lot about the 45LC and the 45ACP and the 44 mag and the 44, so my question is would these all be about the same for SD or would any one be better than the other.

[5-Shot]

You asked for opinion so here goes: the 45 acp is the best of the bunch because you can carry more. Otherwise, no difference.

Ed

[Wraith_K]

I don't know much about the .45LC in how it compares to the other two.

But IMHO, the .44 mag hits harder than the .45 acp. I would imagine the .45LC is fairly close to the .45 acp (but again I'm not sure).

Honesetly you really can't go wrong with any of them.

[Dennis The B]

Without abetting a caliber flame war, my opinion would be for the .45ACP, .44 Special, and .45 Colt, in that order. The .44 Magnum would be last, no matter what.

Regardless the bullet design, you have a .4x caliber bullet at medium velocity, with a lot of penetrating surface, that will make a foe sit down and reconsider the desire to get back in the fight.

The non-magnum calibers also make it easier to get back on target for a follow-up shot(s).

The downside to the larger calibers, is their inherent frame sizes. With the exception of the .44 Special, the N frame is the only choice, so you have a large frame. The exception would be the L frames (696, 296, 396) for a .44 Special.

The .45 ACP give some flexibility, in that you can shoot it in revolvers, as well as larger-framed semi-autos.

All are good choices, but you have to do your part by practicing and becoming proficient. If you can't put metal on target, no caliber is any good.

There will be as many different opinions as there are people posting replies.

[Alnamvet68]

Whatever caliber you can shoot extremely well and acurately with is the best caliber for you. If you are a confident and accomplished shooter, then a .380 will do fine. If you fancy yourself a Dirty Harry type and can justify the use of such firepower if and when you need it, or just like the big attention grabbing bang a 44 magnum ellicits, then go with that. The bottom line, it's all about placement, not caliber.

[Rule3]

They all work The 44 Mag is over and above IMHO. I reload them all and lots of others.

As mentioned the 45 ACP for SD is proven and you can carry more of them, semi auto or revolver.

The 45 Colt is great but most factory loads are cowboy loads (not that they do not work well) but it can be loaded to awesome loads.

Why SW doesn't bring back a nice revolver in 44 special I don't know but I would get one.

So to answer your question. The 45 ACP all things considered.

[Tenn2]

I know it is not the finest built revolver, but I like my Charter Arms .44 special. It is the perfect size for belt holster carry and one look at a .44 hollow point will make anyone smile.

The .44 mag to me is just too much, but I would like to see an L/K frame .45acp in a 5 shot with moon clips!!!!!!!

The .45lc to me does not beat the .44 special and with the longer case would not fit in the same frame.

[pownal55]

At ten feet I'm sure they all hurt like hell.

[chief38]

IMHO the 44 magnum does not belong in the same category for SD. Just too much for the situation. Great for animals in the wild if you venture into the woods, but I would be too afraid of the bullets exiting the perp and hitting either someone or something unintended. Also - too much muzzle blast, recoil, etc. for SD IMHO.

[Alpo]

Originally Posted by Rule3

They all work The 44 Mag is over and above IMHO. I reload them all and lots of others.

As mentioned the 45 ACP for SD is proven and you can carry more of them, semi auto or revolver.

The 45 Colt is great but most factory loads are cowboy loads (not that they do not work well) but it can be loaded to awesome loads.

Why SW doesn't bring back a nice revolver in 44 special I don't know but I would get one.

So to answer your question. The 45 ACP all things considered.

They have, time and again. Folks, apparently, don't buy enough of 'em.

I bought a 24-3 in the early 80s. Brought back then, but not made anymore.

Got a 696 I bought in '97. Not made anymore.

Recently swapped for a 21-4. Fixed sights. Brought back from the 50s, made in 2007. Smith does not list it anymore. Guess they didn't sell enough.

[mc5aw]

Originally Posted by Ogandydancer

I have seen a lot about the 45LC and the 45ACP and the 44 mag and the 44, so my question is would these all be about the same for SD or would any one be better than the other.

For defense against two-legged critters, all four of those calibers will turn the lights out with varying degrees of quickness. For defense against four-leggers, depending on how big the critter is, the .44 Mag should do the best job (especially against the biggins).

Also worth mentioning, the four calibers can be used in long guns ... .44s and 45LC in most lever guns, and .45ACP in several modern carbines. Again, for SD purposes, any of those coming from a long gun should do well.

It was mentioned above about frame size ... a very important consideration. Th S&W non-N frame offerings are few, and relegated to .44 Special when you can find them. The remaining three are large framers, but there's a great variety to choose from, even single actions.

Bottom line, and repeated here for no other reason but agreement ... shot placement is key, irrespective of caliber. Carry and shoot what you carry and shoot most comfortably and effectively.

[RussC]

Originally Posted by Ogandydancer

I have seen a lot about the 45LC and the 45ACP and the 44 mag and the 44, so my question is would these all be about the same for SD or would any one be better than the other.

It really doesn't matter. You can't find any of the mentioned rounds to buy.

Russ

[Boox]

Just to add to the mix, why not a 41 magnum? Good shooter out of a Ruger Blackhawk, a bit more recoil than that from my 45 Long Colt Blackhawk, but faster delivery and slight edge to accuracy. Never shot 45 acp from a revolver, but 700fps versus 980 from the 45 long colt, or 1150 from the 41 magnum, it wouldn't be my choice. Blackhawk only loads closely mimic 44 magnum loads too, but at lower pressures. JMHO.

[Damn Yankee]

People think that there is some magic with these bullets starting with a 4. Soldiers have been shot with all kinds of rifle bullets and survived.

Shooting a person in the arm,side or leg not going to kill them. I don't care what shell you use.

You need to practice center mass with two shots to the heart and one to the head. If you don't want to kill them don't shoot.

[Ivan the Butcher]

I think it was B.Jorden that said, "If it doesn't start with a 4 it ain't a gun." I own all 4 you mentioned, and I think 44-40 and maybe 44 Russian belong in this class also. If you are a reloader, you can tailor these to your needs. On SD 44 Russian in factory offerings is pretty slow. Federal makes a 45 Colt round that's fantastic; 225 gr LSWCHP W/ hollow base. it has shot well in over 15 revolvers of many styles and brands. In the 80's I has 2 Model 25's a 4" and a 6" this was the most accurate ammo I ever shot in them. On 44 Special, Taurus makes a K-frame sized 5 shot 44 Special (mine is from the 80's) with shorter barrels mine is 3". This shoots STHP's well. But for SD 45ACP has the most choices in ammo and guns. I have 10 autos and 2 revolvers in ACP. All my autos, save 1, shoot Federal Hydro-Shoks (230 gr) to the sights, and the one, a Springfield Officers sized model shoots Winchester STHP (185gr) to the sights. I have 8 Single actions in 45 LC; 2 in 44-40; and 2 in 44 Russian (and 2 that don't count in 357). For revolvers I would say go with 45 Long Colt (or just Colt if you're a purest). Because of availability in guns and ammo types, and many componits in LC will interchange for reloading with ACP. If you're thinking a lever gun combo, 44 Mag. will hunt most big game in the lower 48 (except the big bears, and some people do that too), and you use 44 Specials any time also. With hand loads you can do the same with 45 LC or 44-40. 45 ACP is considered a fix for any 2 legged problem, and my best friend's wife has taken White Tail Deer with a 1911.
I think you will do well with any of the 44's or 45's, take your pick and have fun. Ivan

[looseman]

Since your only gonna have 7 rounds anyways, why not .50?

[keith44spl]

Originally Posted by Ogandydancer

I have seen a lot about the 45LC and the 45ACP and the 44 mag and the 44,
so my question is would these all be about the same for SD or would any one be better than the other.

.
If you want a serious opine......Here goes,

I've carried and used all the cartridges you inquired about.

Just my opinion...The .45 Long Colt and the .45 ACP +Ps are
pretty much on even ground as a stopper, when like bullet construction and weights are considered.

The .44 Special in the 246 gr. RNL factory loading isn't much in my book.

There are more advanced .44 Special loading available from various companies.
The 200 gr. JHP at 900 to +1000 FPS from average barrel lengths would be
what I'd be looking for in the .44 Special.

In the .44 Rem. Mag. for defense I favor the W-W 210 Gr. STHP.
At around 1250 FPS or less from a 4" revolver, with the lighter weight bullet and
reduced recoil, I find it to be quite manageable in double action strings of fire.


.
But then again, I carry ol Uncle Elmer's loads most of the times,


.
I've Been Called, Among Other Things...."Abuse Tolerant & Recoil Insensitive"

[Alpo]

Boox, just curious where you got your "700 fps" figure for the 45 ACP?

According to this chart here, which lists a butt-load of different 45 loads
45 ACP Ballistics Chart | Ballistics 101
only one is less than 800, and it's the Federal target SWC load, and it's 770. Most standard ball ammo appears to be in the high 800s/low 900s.

[willy]

I'm with Keith44 on the bullet weight and vel.
If you hand load then 45 COLT and 44 mag. are the way to go.
For SD I load a 200grain Hornady XTP to 1200 fps. in a model 29.

[cbvanb]

My vote is for the .45acp, although I am a die hard .45 Colt fan. The one advantage to the .45acp is fast reloading. Given that it's the shortest of the three choices you give, putting a couple of loaded moon clips in a pocket for reloading is not uncomfortable at all, and with practice the reload itself is lightening fast.
It's possible to modify a revolver in the other two calibers for moon clips, but given their size and bulk reloads are not going to be as easy to carry. As for fight stopping ability with any sensible self defense load, there won't be a nickel's difference between the three.

[Rule3]

Originally Posted by keith44spl

.
If you want a serious opine......Here goes,

I've carried and used all the cartridges you inquired about.

Just my opinion...The .45 "Long" Colt ,

I am shocked I tell ya shocked

[jaykellogg]

Well all four with the right bullet are pretty good man stoppers. The .45 acp is available in an auto loading pistol and the other three pretty much not. Desert Eagle makes a .44 mag auto loader, but I doubt many carry it for SD. So, with a revolver you're limited to 5 or 6 rounds and a fairly big frame. There are medium frame automatics that hold 12 rounds of .45 acp. There is at least one mini auto loader that holds 5 rounds of .45 acp. To me the .45 acp wins because the pistols that shoot it are smaller and hold more rounds. I guess 2nd would be .44 mag because you have the option of using .44 special. This Taurus is the smallest .44 mag I have ever seen.
[IMG][/IMG]

[RkyMtn]

The last gun I own will likely be a 44 Magnum caliber revolver, because it will be able to manage more situation than the others.

[keith44spl]

Originally Posted by keith44spl
.
If you want a serious opine......Here goes,

I've carried and used all the cartridges you inquired about.

Just my opinion...The .45 "Long" Colt ,

Originally Posted by Rule3

I am shocked I tell ya shocked

Now Rule...Ya knows I ain't ashamed....

And I remain un-repentant as to reference of the 45 Colt, as being 'Long'

.
It's plain to see,




.

I Kid Ya Not.........

[GLV]

would be a factor--so that said, .45ACP, .44 Mag, .44 Special, and .45Colt. At least this is what I see locally.

Lots of good self defense ammo available for all four--if you can locate it.

[Texas Star]

Originally Posted by Ivan the Butcher

I think it was B.Jorden that said, "If it doesn't start with a 4 it ain't a gun." I own all 4 you mentioned, and I think 44-40 and maybe 44 Russian belong in this class also. If you are a reloader, you can tailor these to your needs. On SD 44 Russian in factory offerings is pretty slow. Federal makes a 45 Colt round that's fantastic; 225 gr LSWCHP W/ hollow base. it has shot well in over 15 revolvers of many styles and brands. In the 80's I has 2 Model 25's a 4" and a 6" this was the most accurate ammo I ever shot in them. On 44 Special, Taurus makes a K-frame sized 5 shot 44 Special (mine is from the 80's) with shorter barrels mine is 3". This shoots STHP's well. But for SD 45ACP has the most choices in ammo and guns. I have 10 autos and 2 revolvers in ACP. All my autos, save 1, shoot Federal Hydro-Shoks (230 gr) to the sights, and the one, a Springfield Officers sized model shoots Winchester STHP (185gr) to the sights. I have 8 Single actions in 45 LC; 2 in 44-40; and 2 in 44 Russian (and 2 that don't count in 357). For revolvers I would say go with 45 Long Colt (or just Colt if you're a purest). Because of availability in guns and ammo types, and many componits in LC will interchange for reloading with ACP. If you're thinking a lever gun combo, 44 Mag. will hunt most big game in the lower 48 (except the big bears, and some people do that too), and you use 44 Specials any time also. With hand loads you can do the same with 45 LC or 44-40. 45 ACP is considered a fix for any 2 legged problem, and my best friend's wife has taken White Tail Deer with a 1911.
I think you will do well with any of the 44's or 45's, take your pick and have fun. Ivan

Ivan-

You misspelled "Jordan", but it wasn't him, anyway. You may be thinking of Jeff Cooper.

Bill Jordan told me that even the .38 Special will usually suffice, if well placed. He is known for inspiring S&W to produce the Model 19 Combat Magnum.

Despite saying that the .38 was okay, Bill usually wore a .357. He did have a 9mm M-59 one day when he dropped in at the late G.W. Stone's custom knife shop as I was intervewing G.W. for a profile that appeared in, "Blade" magazine.

BTW, I once met a Dallas cop who put FOUR rounds of .44 Magnum through the back of a fleeing suspect and the man ran for a block or more before dropping. He went to a .357 and quicker expanding bullets. He was wearing a M-19 when we talked. (I believe that force is now limited to 9mm 147 grain loads or to .357 SIG. They once had a much wider choice. Some revolvers were "grandfathered" in.)

But on a bear, the .44 would be better.

I do like Federal's .45 Colt load with 225 grain SWC-HP bullet, but it gets absolutely no press, and few know about it.

The .45 ACP has an advantage in that it can be used in auto pistols and has a wider variety of ammo, which is more available than the other cartridges.

[therevjay]

Unless you are concered about being attacked by bears or bigfoot I would leave out the .44Mag.

Otherwise my "non expert" opinion is, they're all about the same. But .45ACP would be easiest to find and probebly the least exspensive.

[LEO918]

To quote Col. Jeff Cooper. The .45 acp is about 90% effective - nothing is 100%.

[Intheshop]

Well,this is downright funny("on" me)....'cause,the first thing that popped in my pea brain seeing "SD" was,sectional density....and was like,oooh,oooh...pick the .44 with a real heavy bullet,duh.See if linky works?


Sectional Density for Beginners

[Snapping Twig]

I reload and shoot all those mentioned - except .50AE.

IMO, a large bullet at moderate speed is more efficient for close quarters SD.

Bullet design is a major factor, but let's assume that all are using a similar bullet which is efficient at transferring impact energy, no RN need apply.

I'd vote for the 230g 45acp #1, a 250g 44Spl @ 900fps #2, 255g 45LC (I will always call it that) and last, the 265g 44mag.

Too much power is wasted with the magnum, it blows right through. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but follow-up shots are more difficult and it's just too much.

The LC is great, but typically it's in a large frame gun and for some it's got too much recoil. Not me.

The 44Spl in typical factory form is too little for its own good, but from a specialty loader or home loaded, it's just right. That's the only reason I put it #2. Ammo suitability/availability.

The ACP is slick, works in a semi auto as well as a revolver and the recoil is low.

[Rule3]

Originally Posted by keith44spl

Now Rule...Ya knows I ain't ashamed....

And I remain un-repentant as to reference of the 45 Colt, as being 'Long'

.
It's plain to see,




.

I Kid Ya Not.........

I suppose ya got a gun that says Short Colt on it too

Is that bird poop on your front sight

I'll go hide now

[keith44spl]

Originally Posted by Rule3

I suppose ya got a gun that says Short Colt on it too

Is that bird poop on your front sight

.
Naw Rule,

That ain't bird dropin's....That's a sliver of 100 year old pachyderm dentine


And the .45 Long Colt is a dandy in that short barreled N frame.

Although I'll admit to havin' a few .45 Short Colts here somewhere's....

I do like the .44 Special best for all around...But,

Ya wouldn't catch me turnin' my nose up at a good Long Colt neither.


.

And I Ain't Kiddin' None Neither

The Long & Short Of It All......


(45 Long Colt & A Shorter 45 LC for
uses in them 38/44 length cylinders)

[ColbyBruce]

Not all .45 a.c.p.'s are huge. Here is my brother's AMT Back-Up .45 a.c.p. Around $140.00 used. After he fiddled with it some, it runs like a Singer sewing machine.


Do not forget the mighty 10mm. Available in both revolver and semi-auto's, and you will pay dearly for either one, LOL!!

[Rule3]

Attachment 106619

Originally Posted by keith44spl

.
Naw Rule,

That ain't bird dropin's....That's a sliver of 100 year old pachyderm dentine


And the .45 Long Colt is a dandy in that short barreled N frame.

Although I'll admit to havin' a few .45 Short Colts here somewhere's....

I do like the .44 Special best for all around...But,

Ya wouldn't catch me turnin' my nose up at a good Long Colt neither.


.

And I Ain't Kiddin' None Neither

The Long & Short Of It All......

The Skeeter's in 44 special are a great round. I would carry that but the revolver pulls my speedos down. I get a few more rounds with my SA XDs 45. I know it's a new fangled plastic bottom feeder but it works and dead nuts accurate.

[Mule Packer]

In the calibers you mentioned, you go with what feels best for you! What I mean is, they'll all do the job, and do it satisfactorily, if you do your part.

I'm probably not the guy to ask because I'm biased. Real biased. I like the .45 Colt. Period. I've owned them all and, to my way of thinking, the ol' .45 Colt is hard to beat....especially if you hand load. It was originally designed as a man stopper, and, in my opinion, while the other calibers you mentioned will do the job, the .45LC has them beat. Whether you use it in single action, double action, or in a lever gun, it's a formidable cartridge and doesn't take the back seat to anything.

Of course, like I said, I'm biased because I've carried one, in one configuration or another for over 40 years. The recoil is not punishing. The bullet is plenty big enough to do the job. And, if you reload, you have plenty of options.

Now...after saying all this, I'm sure I'm going to hear "the sacred cow moo," but that's still my opinion. It's one darn fine cartridge. I mean, why do you think it's still popular after over 100 years?

[Dominus_Lex]

Each has its place in the caliber kingdom: 45ACP is a great defense round and very sold as a woods carry, anywhere they do not have large bears; .44 Mag. is a great hunting round, delivering a ton of power; I like .45 colt as a carry gun in bear country as it is a lighter pistol (well mine is) and a beefed up round can get close to what .44 Mag. delivers....

[feralmerril]

For SD, the first one to cull would be the 44 mag. I like the .44 special but you pretty much have to handload to stoke it up the way you would want.
The reason I like it, it is lighter and easier to pack than the mag with the heavier straight barrels. The .45 colt is nice but on the 25s there again, with the same heavy straight barrel you are back to the 29.
I would look for a mountain gun in anything or one of those tapered barrel clasics that smith made in either 45 acp, thunder ranch in .44 special or .45 colt. All should be tops. You dont need the target sights either.

[Rule3]

If I could comfortably carry my 45 Colt Mt Gun I would. I am not a big guy and it's mostly shorts and t shirts or polo shirts. Kinda hard to conceal such a large gun. I certainly like shooting it. 250gr LSWC and a heavy dose of Unique and it's good to go.

[UncleEd]

Think availability: .45 ACP

Think per cartridge cost: .45 ACP

Think practical sized pistols: .45 ACP

Think U.S. Special Forces: .45 ACP

Or.....

.....just consider the .357 Magnum or +P .38s for SD.

[sps282]

Any of the calibers listed would do the job as far as self defense...it comes down to what application you are using the weapon for! I personally would not want to lug around a large frame gun for CCW although I'm sure there are some who do! My choice would be a compact 45 acp.

[jimmyj]

Hi:
I have used/carried all four (.44spl/.44mag/.45acp/.45 colt) on duty and off duty. All performed well. I preferred the .44 as I could have a duty revolver (S&W M29) and a Backup (Charter Arms Bulldog) that used the same round (.44spl Silvertips).I carried 44mag ammo in two speedloaders and .44spl in 12 round cartridge loop carrier

[M29since14]

Originally Posted by Ogandydancer

...so my question is would these all be about the same for SD or would any one be better than the other.

Having seen figures that say a .357 SIG works better than a full-charge 44 Magnum (which seems odd), I would think that with appropriate ammunition all about the same, but who knows?

The second question, yes, definitely the .45ACP since that is what the average 1911 comes bored for, and I don't know of a better pistol/cartridge combination that is ever likely to be made. Seems to bring together all of the various requirements, balanced about as perfectly as possible, for the job at hand.

[BigBill]

Its the 41mag for SD for me. I have all the rest and i like the 41mag the best.

[Beruisis]

Good thread. I agree with 5shot 100%.
45 acp & don't look back. I have 3 1911s & 3 revolvers so chambered.
Been doing this a long time.
My second choice would be 44 special.
Beruisis

[Stevie]

I use .44 mag for hunting...from a 629..a Super Blackhawk..and Rossi carbine...but what the hay?...It worked for Harry Callahan

[CAJUNLAWYER]

Originally Posted by Intheshop

Well,this is downright funny("on" me)....'cause,the first thing that popped in my pea brain seeing "SD" was,sectional density....and was like,oooh,oooh...pick the .44 with a real heavy bullet,duh.See if linky works?


Sectional Density for Beginners

Actually the first thing that came to me was South Dakota. I'm sitting here thinking what in the wide world of sports makes South Dakota so special that you need something that starts with a 4 to carry? They ain't got no bears......and the coyotes can't be THAT big.....

[Alpo]

Originally Posted by CAJUNLAWYER

Actually the first thing that came to me was South Dakota. I'm sitting here thinking what in the wide world of sports makes South Dakota so special that you need something that starts with a 4 to carry? They ain't got no bears......and the coyotes can't be THAT big.....

Thank you. It is nice to see someone, 'sides me, that types like I talk.

[cmort666]

I wouldn't consider Winchester White Box .44 Magnum at all appropriate for self-defense if anything else was available. On the other hand, there are commercial .44 Magnum "self-defense" loads available. Personally, I stick to the Speer 200gr. JSP .44 Specials for self-defense.

The truth is that there isn't all that much to choose from between the rounds mentioned, for typical self-defense. The .44 Magnum has one advantage in that it's capable of SAFELY achieving MUCH higher velocities than the other rounds, giving it a dual self-defense/hunting role, only enhanced by the ability to use Specials.

[BigBill]

But it all depends in which gun/caliber speaks the loudest to go for some fresh air on that day too. I do ocassionally take them all out for a breath of fresh air and a walk. Then they get wiped down oiled up and back in storage they go till there next walk. But i do mainly carry the m58 in 41mag with two speed loaders. Why the speed loaders i'm not sure because one round should end a bad guy situation.

Food for thought;
A used ruger blackhawk in 41mag if its an older one it will have a 7 1/2" barrel. The new ones have a 6 1/2" barrel.

[Alpo]

How old is "older"? I have had two 3-screw Blackhawks in 41. One from 72 and one from 69 (sold that one). Both 6 1/2".