A different round in the chamber question

I've read many discussions about the pros and cons of having a round chambered in a semi-automatic. I'd say the majority think it is best to have a round chambered, since in a moment of high stress/need, it may be too difficult to rack the slide and load a round, or it may be too time consuming. On the other hand, I have read many comments that the sound of a pump shotgun being pumped is (in the opinions of many, it would seem) enough all by itself to deter a bad guy. Now, if you are going to pump the action, it would seem to me that you would be doing so to chamber a shell...unless you just want to eject the shell that is in the chamber, perhaps as a warning to the bad guy. That seems unlikely, so it would seem that most who advocate the sound of a pump shotgun being pumped as an effective deterrent don't have a shell already in the chamber.

So, I was wondering, why is it generally considered advisable to have a round chambered in a semi-automatic pistol, but apparently it's preferable not to have a shell chambered in a pump shotgun? Is that because the action of a pump shotgun is considered to be easier to manipulate under stress than would be racking the slide on a semi-automatic?

I would say it's because you're not usually carrying the pump around with you for self-defense, and if you are, you've likely picked it up in response to a direct or perceived threat, and either have already placed it into Condition One, or are prepared to do so by chambering a round -- with the audible warning to the threat that the sound of the pump carries with it.

vigil617 said:

I would say it's because you're not usually carrying the pump around with you for self-defense, and if you are, you've likely picked it up in response to a direct or perceived threat, and either have already placed it into Condition One, or are prepared to do so by chambering a round -- with the audible warning to the threat that the sound of the pump carries with it.

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Exactly......We are comparing apples to oranges with this one.

The sound of the pump, is to be thought of at night (Likely in your home) in another room. Of course its a scary sound and most people would be startled by it. But thats not always the case. Its more like a "hope and pray" situation. You hope they hear it and you pray they leave.

But when its a face to face threat the game changes instantly. Your adrenaline is pumping, your life is being threatened and at any moment its either your life or theirs. IMO, there is no time to think. You simply have to do what must in order to survive.

Put yourself in the enforces shoes for just a moment. Would you allow the guy to pull his pistol and give him time to chamber a round?

Smitty357 said:

Exactly......We are comparing apples to oranges with this one.

The sound of the pump, is to be thought of at night (Likely in your home) in another room. Of course its a scary sound and most people would be startled by it. But thats not always the case. Its more like a "hope and pray" situation. You hope they hear it and you pray they leave.

But when its a face to face threat the game changes instantly. Your adrenaline is pumping, your life is being threatened and at any moment its either your life or theirs. IMO, there is no time to think. You simply have to do what must in order to survive.

Put yourself in the enforces shoes for just a moment. Would you allow the guy to pull his pistol and give him time to chamber a round?

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I have to say I used the sound and movement of charging a gun a lot of times in Afghanistan to deescalate a situation. People walking up to you and even with shouting and showing them to stay away they just keep getting closer... Well when they see and hear you chambering a round ( of course there was already a round in the chamber ) it made them stop very quickly and they realized you were not playing games.

It really depends on the situation, charging a shotgun so that a burglar hears it might deescalate and make him flee the scene without that homeowner or burglar saw each other. There is just no general rule.

Edit: I know you eject one round but depending on the gun it is neglectable

I think that's just one of those "Hollywood" things. In order to rack the slide, you need to start out with an empty chamber.
So, you're starting out with an empty chamber, then alerting the intruder as to your presence and position. Why not just yell, "over here!"
Not me, I want the element of surprise. I don't want to let him know where I am until I'm ready. I keep my shotgun loaded and a round chambered.

In a home defense situation the "psychological" effect of a racking pump shot gun is a bunch of movie hype.

The gun is unloaded. If you have a need to pick it up and someone is that close to harming you or your family you want to pull the trigger on a live round.

Maybe ring a little bell first or as mention Oh here I am.

Rule3 said:

The gun is unloaded. If you have a need to pick it up and someone is that close to harming you or your family you want to pull the trigger on a live round.

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See, this is my thought...if you are in an urgent situation, the most I want to have to do is take off the safety. Pump shotguns have been known to bind, and that would be the worst time for it to happen.

I know that handguns and shotguns are "apples and oranges" in that they are different weapons, but the basic question is the same...at the critical moment, under stress, adrenaline surging, and fear building, do you want to have additional steps and time before you can defend yourself and/or your family?

I guess that's a decision each person has to answer for themselves, based on their own comfort level. No criticism intended or implied of anyone's method of choice.

Although I've never tested it for myself, I've always been told that pump shotguns(and most rifles) don't have hammer/firing pin block safeties as do most handguns. I've heard second or third hand of someone here locally who lost most of his left hand when he dropped his "unloaded" home defense 12 gauge accidentally.

I'm comfortable with a chambered round in a semi-auto handgun, and a fully loaded DA revolver, but I generally don't like to chamber a round in a shotgun until I have it on target.

I know cops that have first hand knowledge that racking the slide is sometimes ignored by determined bad guys. These same cops either have their home shotguns with one in the tube while others don't. It's simply personal preference.

If you have prepared your home properly, you will have plenty of time to grab your shotgun and rack the slide if you so choose. Or simply click the safety off.

A home defense shotgun is a "lie in wait" type of gun. Not something you would search your house with if you were so inclined.

A semi auto handgun is meant to be carried and brought into service very quickly. So racking the slide on a semi auto makes no sense.

Personally I keep all my home defense guns fully loaded with one in the tube. If a bump in the night happens, I have enough to do while trying to clear my head and ready myself. Racking the slide is another step I don't have to try and remember.

Comparing a locked and loaded pistol on one's hip vs. a pump shotgun at home are two different animals. I think a more reasonable comparison is between a semi-auto pistol and pump shotgun both used specifically for home defense. Do people keep a semi-auto pistol locked and loaded on the night table more than a pump shotgun next to the bed? I cannot recall ever speaking with a single person who maintains a round in the chamber with a pump gun, but most folks I know who favor semi pistols keep them live and ready to go.

I carry revolvers exclusively, but have trained a good amount with a pair of SIG 228s. I only kept the SIGs hot while on the range during practice, or IDPA. As for my home defense shotgun, I recently sold the pump and went with a semi-auto. I'm not concerned about the semi's inability to make fright-inducing sounds like a pump gun, and I can get it charged and ready extremely quickly. If I was worried about the disparity between my reaction time to chamber a round vs. the reaction time of a BG to attack me, I'd simply mount a bayonet on the shotgun.

Here ya go buddy. The Zombie Edition!!

mc5aw said:

Comparing a locked and loaded pistol on one's hip vs. a pump shotgun at home are two different animals. I think a more reasonable comparison is between a semi-auto pistol and pump shotgun both used specifically for home defense. Do people keep a semi-auto pistol locked and loaded on the night table more than a pump shotgun next to the bed? I cannot recall ever speaking with a single person who maintains a round in the chamber with a pump gun, but most folks I know who favor semi pistols keep them live and ready to go.

I carry revolvers exclusively, but have trained a good amount with a pair of SIG 229s. I only kept the SIGs hot while on the range during practice, or IDPA. As for my home defense shotgun, I recently sold the pump and went with a semi-auto. I'm not concerned about the semi's inability to make fright-inducing sounds like a pump gun, and I can get it charged and ready extremely quickly. If I was worried about the disparity between my reaction time to chamber a round vs. the reaction time of a BG to attack me, I'd simply mount a bayonet on the shotgun.

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Well said. I tried to say the same but you said it better.

Most any pump or semi auto shotgun or rifle safety is simply a trigger block. Nothing inside to block the sear, hammer and/or firing pin it self. You can include most every SxS and O/U to that also.
A fall or a dropped firearm can result in a discharge even with the safety in the 'on' position.
It's just a machine. Parts wear,parts fail..

mc5aw said:

Comparing a locked and loaded pistol on one's hip vs. a pump shotgun at home are two different animals. I think a more reasonable comparison is between a semi-auto pistol and pump shotgun both used specifically for home defense.

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I didn't make a comparison between carry and home defense. It was a more general question.

mc5aw said:

I cannot recall ever speaking with a single person who maintains a round in the chamber with a pump gun...

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Well, now you can say that you do...'cause I do. Or did, when I had a pump shotgun. I sold it, and am planning on buying a coach gun (just because I want it.) I will keep shells in it, of course...plus, the model I am buying has functional external hammers.