WOW!!! Just WOW!!!

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James L. "Jim" Rhiner

I have to tell you that I disagree with two points in your argument. First off, I am not PUTTING anyone behind the wheel of a vehicle, and to the best of my knowledge, neither is anyone else. Each person CHOOSES TO SITUATE HIMSELF behind the wheel of a vehicle, and only mental defectives (usually teenage males) do it without sufficient training. Same goes for guns.

Also, the actual results of the use of cell phones while driving reflects not only the mental and moral quality of the individual using the phone, but, to some extent, his age. When cell phones first came out, they were large and expensive. They were used mostly by well-off middle-aged males. By my observation, these people tended to drive in the right or middle lane, and were very stable. Of course, they were not texting. Nowadays, kids (fifty years younger than I) text with less distraction than I experience just making a call. I consider making a cell-phone call a marginal activity for me while driving, and usually don't do it, but I have no need to badmouth those who can do it safely. Surely there are kids (and adults) who can't, but there are also those who can. Let's lock 'em up if they can't handle it, but not penalize everyone because we're too old to know what the much-younger generation is capable of.

I will say yes. But that training must be affordable, easily accessible, and preferably no public record on who has taken it.


personally I think it should just be taught in schools. We live in an armed society.... pretending guns don't exist are the reason we have so many troubles with them.

We just don't live in a time anymore where common sense is taught.... or even encouraged. Theres no foundation or bed rock for the current generation.

I'm sure people will do as they please as they always have. I doubt I'm not the only one who cc'd for decades before anyone heard of cc permits, even though it was my constitutional right to do so, I know I was breaking the law depending on where I was. now it's all the rage. I just don't really care for or trust any wildfire like fads/rages. too many too quick with no understanding or skill of many. I'm not saying that it's OK for me and not you, I just got a bad feeling about so many so fast.

Maybe we should require a credit check before we allow people to buy guns? Or maybe you feel that poor people who live in high crime areas don't deserve the right to buy a cheap gun for self protection?

I guess for some people only the wealthy deserve the rights enumerated in the Bill of Rights. Or at least one of them.

I never took a formal safety course until my daughter and some friends did in 2010. That was well after I'd had my License to Carry for years. Somehow having carried since the mid 1970s, I've managed not to shoot myself or anyone else. My training was mostly informal, so I don't know if it counts as training.

Maybe my superintelligence enabled me to understand that it's bad to point a gun at someone unless you intend to shoot them, keep your finger off the trigger until ready to shoot, never assume a gun is unloaded, and be aware of your backstop.

I even played with toy guns as a kid, playing "Army" and managed not to turn into a homicidal maniac.

Et tu timn8er?

Do you really think a great number of people will buy a gun, load it and stuff it in their pants if they don't feel comfortable or knowledgeable about how it works and how to use it?

I like the chainsaw reference. Very deadly, yet no mandated safety class.

The truth is where no mandated firearm training is required we see no increase in accidents.

I still can't get over this thread's poll numbers showing the majority of people here think the government needs to protect and regulate them.

Unbelievable.

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Kirk / Spock 2020

Please....spare me with the self-righteous indignation act. We're not talking about your FICA scores, the topic is making choices when it comes to feeding your kids or buying a gun; and yes, if you can afford a gun, you have no excuse to take a firearms safety course, and the safe use of the handgun you possess; I don't care if it's CCW, open carry, or Mexican carry...you want to own a gun, then prove to me and every American who values their safety as well as the safety of their family that you have the legal and practical knowledge that should be "mandatory" when possessing a firearm.

10-4 Joe Biden

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Sure you did

A great number of people are already just going out buying a gun and ammo barely knowing where the bullets go in and where they go out. Government is already involved.... why not make it make sense? Im for/against. I don't think anyone (this day and age) should be able to walk into a store, walk out with a gun and carry it around without thinking of some of the scenarios or laws that are brought up in a CCW class.

Im not saying I want the federal government becoming more involved in the process... I think a private company could facilitate the training, where you would get a certificate or some such that you would then take to get your permit with. And then for renewals sit through a class to brush up on the laws.

And none of this would be necessary if they taught it in schools.

I don't support mandatory training for concealed carry, but I do think it is a reasonable requirement.

Out
West

Quoting Alnamvet68

Please....spare me with the self-righteous indignation act. We're not talking about your FICA scores, the topic is making choices when it comes to feeding your kids or buying a gun; and yes, if you can afford a gun, you have no excuse to take a firearms safety course, and the safe use of the handgun you possess; I don't care if it's CCW, open carry, or Mexican carry...you want to own a gun, then prove to me and every American who values their safety as well as the safety of their family that you have the legal and practical knowledge that should be "mandatory" when possessing a firearm.

I always thought that as an AMERICAN CITIZEN I was living under the Constitution AND The Bill of "RIGHTS" which contains the 2nd Amendment which reads "shall not be infringed". I sure in the hell didn't know that I had to answer to you and get your okay. If you believe you have that right then I'll assume the right to deny you the right to express that. Now that you and I have destroyed both the 1st and 2nd amendments, lets just go for the moon and do away with the rest of them. Hell, lets do away with the Constitution also, then we'll just become SUBJECTS instead of CITIZENS. Better yet, why don't we just follow the Constitution and the Bill of Rights and realize that there is no perfect world and OUR Freedom has some downsides but far out ways any other form of Government.

baldeagle8888

to OUT WEST,

Please explain the difference between Mandatory and Requirement. Seems to me they imply the same thing.

baldeagle8888

And the next step.....having a child/children is a right but we should want the government to give the citizens a mandatory class on having a child? Know what some of you are thinking... "Well yes they should". Maybe some on this board will realize what I am putting forth here. Oh and I know we are all talking about guns, I get that, but really whats next?

I learned the meaning of the second amendment in 9th grade American History, 1964. Mr Prout was the teacher. I got a A- for the course. I voted no, so public schools had something to do with it.

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Dennis

I cannot believe some of you. I took a course in which our instructor repeatedly swept myself and my father with the muzzle of a cocked and locked 1911 while bragging about how proficient he was with it. My father taught me gun safety, just as I am passing on to my sons. Not the fool teaching the government mandated class.

What we need isn't mandatory anything. It is for the men in this country to step up and be fathers instead of wanting the government to do it for them.

For those of you who are in favor of mandatory classes, how are we going to get criminals into these safety classes? They are the problem with guns; not law abiding citizens choosing to exercise the right to defend themselves.

I voted yes!!! I have seen people at the range that had no business with a gun and I have seen people on the highway that had no business driving a car. Most everyone has a right to have guns but with that right comes responsibility. Don

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"Don't worry be happy"

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin. Just a quote I am found of. Fitting? For me yes because there are too many becoming complacent and wanting to meet halfway with the anti gun side that just sits and waits, patiently, for us to say ' Oh what the heck'. Then what? What we lose next? Too many of us, as a whole just don't want to fight, too much trouble, lose sight of what is really at stake. Paranoid? I say not. It has been happening for a long time now. A little here, a little there and WHAM! it's gone.

Doesn't driving a car also come with responsibility? Bet a lot more people killed by irresponsible drivers and heck you have to go through drivers ed and pass a drivers test!

If you want to vote, prove to me that and every American who values their safety as well as the safety of their family that you have the legal and practical knowledge that should be mandatory with going into a voting booth.

If you want the right to demand a search warrant before the police search your house, prove to me that and every American who values their safety as well as the safety of their family that you have the legal and practical knowledge that should be mandatory with having a right to be secure in your possessions.

If you want the right to counsel before the police question you with regard to a crime , prove to me that and every American who values their safety as well as the safety of their family that you have the legal and practical knowledge that should be mandatory with having a right to not to incriminate yourself.

If you want the right to trial by a jury of your peers, prove to me that and every American who values their safety as well as the safety of their family that you have the legal and practical knowledge that should be mandatory with having a right to be tried by fellow citizens.

Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."

I hope that your chains bear lightly on your shoulders. Give in to one "common sense" restriction on a right, and when that doesn't work, they'll just be back to ask you to give up "just one more" because that one will cause criminals not to commit crimes.

tisk tisk tisk.....ladder13 throws out a bone with a little meat on it and then steps back and watches as we all tear each other to shreads trying to prove we're the biggest meanest dog!

I'm not sure whether to applaud him or decry him.

I hate the idea of mandatory training,but Ive been around guns and gun people most of my life and there are an awful lot of morons with guns in this country and they do the rest of us a huge disservice.So maybe the solution with these goobers is to step up and tell them to knock that **** off the next time we get swept.

Yes, training is the name of the game. The more trained in firearms the safer the CCL holder will be.

I've been hardly standing by watching, but you can do whatever floats your boat.

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Sure you did

I think you are displaying a certain degree of LEO elitism and "Us vs. the civilians" attitude here. Now you have gotten it down to not just carrying a gun, but simply possessing a gun should require mandatory training. Just how much proof do you suggest? Who do you suggest to be in charge of the mandatory "legal and practical knowledge" education you would require for simply owning and possessing a gun? What kind of government documentation would you require?

Might I also assume from this particular post that you would also favor universal background checks as well as universal registration, just so enforcement authorities can be sure those you deem unqualified can be prevented from acquiring a weapon?

Sounds like it to me.

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Georgia On My Mind

Still no replies. I guess they are trying to come up with a way to convince us they'd be OK with having to wait and repay for the test and wait to carry.

"Hmm well gee I guess if it's for the greater good I'd be ok with it. Obviously I shouldn't own a gun if I don't pass the test..."


OR MAYBE..... Maybe they just want OTHERS to have mandatory training.

Prove to me you have the public speaking training to come on here and spew that nonsensical drivel!

That's one if the most un-American, anti-bill of rights, freedom suppressing BS I've heard!

PROVE TO ME YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS?!

TO OWN A GUN?!

First you prove to us you have the right to freedom of speech.

Looks like another gun control supporter has been revealed.

You are correct sir! Occasionally you fan the flames, poke the bear with a stick, throw gas on the fire, push buttons, cry fire in a crowded forum

I bow to your greatness.

I guess you're done debating the issue then.

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Sure you did

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That Ladder 13 sure knows how to get 'em to show their cards, and that's for plum certain.




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"IN GOD WE TRUST"

I really hope that just came out wrong.

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- The Federalist #46 -

"[QUOTE=Lost Lake;137208942]Et tu timn8er? "

Yeah, even me, Lost Lake.

"Do you really think a great number of people will buy a gun, load it and stuff it in their pants if they don't feel comfortable or knowledgeable about how it works and how to use it?"

We seem to be painting with broad strokes here, so if one of us can, all of us can! And I don't recall saying anything about a "great number of people". If the possibility exists for this to happen, it shouldn't.

"I like the chainsaw reference. Very deadly, yet no mandated safety class."

I got nothing here, as I didn't reference chain saws in my post.

"The truth is where no mandated firearm training is required we see no increase in accidents."

So training won't help anyway? I'm not talking about accidental shootings, I'm talking about shootings that happen when people don't know where their rights end & someone else's begin.

"I still can't get over this thread's poll numbers showing the majority of people here think the government needs to protect and regulate them."

I don't believe that at all!!

"Unbelievable. "

If you're talking about depending on someones common sense, best of luck with that. What I see on the news everyday tells me that there is a major shortage of that right now.

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Lounge Lizard Extraordinaire

Oh I dunno, I'd debate with ya as long as it remains civil, too many people turn to personal attacks or reading things into posts that aren't there if you disagree with them. Plus, I think you left the question too open or undefined, perhaps on purpose.

I'm not entirely sure we're on totally opposite ends either.

I like the guys and gals on the forum and don't want to create hard feelings or adversaries in the place I enjoy talking all things gun.

Absolutely yes. Classroom and range with tests in both.

Lostlake, "do you really think unskilled/untrained/ignorant/inexperienced people will just stick a loaded gun in their pocket?" OH HELL YES! MILLIONS OF THEM NATIONWIDE! that's what worries me. the chainsaw reference, I doubt a chainsaw user is gonna miss the tree he wanted to cut down and hit a small kid with it up to a mile away. have any doubts that training would be a good idea, visit ANY busy public range and witness the bonehead moves you will see real soon. next time you go to one just look up at the ceiling and count the bullet holes.

One thing about these threads, they usually bring out these attitudes; people wind up displaying true colors. Several have been exposed . . . . can you say 'mcbear' or 'Ray Vaughn'?

No, I don't think it came out wrong. It is a typical elitist sentiment. "You don't have enough sense to know what's good for you. Here, we know best, and we will tell you what's good for you. If you know what's in your best interest, you will listen."

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Georgia On My Mind

I really think that people are getting way too carried away over this. Posters calling others traitors, nuts, elitists, & now the tin foil hats seem to be coming out. Aren't we all simply allowed to express an opinion, without being attacked by others who don't share that opinion? I think EVERYBODY needs to lighten up!

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Lounge Lizard Extraordinaire

I still say we could put a great voluntary system together before handing to job over to Mizz Pelosi. Even if it takes a while to get to everyone, we could certainly get to a lot of people before it was fully ramped up. Think how many people could have received this knowledge in the time since this thread was started.

Maybe this solution is not a simple undertaking, but I for one find it more attractive than allowing the politicians to come up with it and vote for the lesser of the evils.

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Is it safe?

I'll get carried away every time someone suggests mandatory training for simply purchasing or owning a gun, which is exactly what Alnamvet68 did.

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Georgia On My Mind

Whoa there...looks like your true colors are showing.

Nancy..Joe..BHO...is that you on here??

Don

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Laus Deo! <><

When you buy a new ATV, first timers are offered a free rider's course.

What a great idea for gun manufacturers to do the same! Offer a safety course if it is your first gun purchase.


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Kirk / Spock 2020

Well Boys,

I'm shore glad I got mine back back before '68

I was raised in a time and place where firearms were more common............Than the common cold.

I instruct concealed carry firearms safety courses, which are mandated by statute by and for the Commonwealth.

I also instruct intermittent and advance classes, as well as some private instruction on responding to
active shooter(s) (Upon verified qualification(s) and my own evaluation & acceptance to my classes.)

I have been in close contact and have known folks for the last half century that carried a firearm(s) concealed for their personal protection, both men and women, long before the CCW craze.

Since the passage of statues to allow lawful concealed carry in the Commonwealth of Kentucky and as a detective for the Commonwealth,
I have not worked a case nor recall an incident of a mis-use of force by a licensee nor a non-licensee....That did not have a prior criminal record.


A firearms student that seeks voluntary firearm safety and marksmanship training, general speaking,
is the firearms enthusiast that is looking for a higher degree of personal development, rather than the mechanics of the issue.


As far as mandatory training required to purchase, posses and or carry on one's person, I see this as a blatant attack on one's personal liberties and I do believe it would be unconscionable as well as unconstitutional.

I do hereby and hereupon believe that folks have a inalienable right to;

'Life, Liberty & The Pursuit of Happiness' regardless of their stature in life, wealth, age, and or God given abilities.


"God created Man....Sam Colt made them Equal!"


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"IN GOD WE TRUST"

I'm not trying to anger you, I'm really not.....but do you realize just how snobby and elitist this reply is??

Don

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Laus Deo! <><

The Constitution is where I find my answer to the original question, but for sake of discussion...

If you want to mandate something upon others, isn't the burden of proof upon you?

For example: Prove that Georgia permit holders have a significantly higher frequency of missed shots during self defense shootings resulting in innocent bystanders being shot than do each of the other states requiring training. Also, is the frequency of such incidents greater than being struck by lightening?

I don't pretend to have this information, but I'd like to see if the fear of risk from lack of mandatory CC training is measured and real, or is it delusion?

Yes, without question.

Good questions.

Crackheads wandering around with guns... not good. Shouldn't all gun owners, particularly those applying for a carry permit, be required to submit to drug testing?

Folks with mental defects wandering around with guns... not good. Shouldn't all gun owners, particularly those applying for a carry permit, be required to submit to a mental health evaluation by a qualified doctor?

In the killing incidents reported in the prior link, most all were related to jealousy, disagreements and momentary rage. Shouldn't all gun owners be required to attend schooling on personal relationships, conflict resolution and anger management?

Of course I offer the above with sarcasm, but I wonder just how far some folks are willing to go to make this a perfect CC world?

Well, seems that some don't like the wording of the poll, even suggesting I'm a troll, or worse. By all means start your own poll and word it "correctly", sorry this big city educated boy ain't as smart as some.
I've even been accused of inciting people against one another, part of the troll thing I guess. Heck, what's wrong with a simple yes or no answer to the poll since that is the 2 choices? Your opinion is even private if you want it to be, no need to comment at all. So I'm the troll?
I've been here 8 years, made my share of friends and probably made some enemies. I speak plainly, that bothers some, but at least I'm honest.
Carry on, if you will.

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Sure you did

Troublemaker.

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James L. "Jim" Rhiner

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Nah, I don't believe the troll part for a second..........But,

Ya sure know how to smoke the cockroaches out of the woodworks!

Mike, Yer all right in my book.


Su Amigo,
Dave


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"IN GOD WE TRUST"

If you can't understand the question, r e a d s l o w l y .

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Dum vivo cano