Hey guys,

Thought I'd post some about my second favorite Handgun manufacturer, Heckler and Koch.

I've been exposed to H&K basically since I was born. My dad was a Jeweler for 20+ years, and in those 20+ years he got robbed.... a lot. At first he carried what many of us start off with; a S&W Mod. 36. [My Pop's Actual Gun]



Well after being robbed by multiple suspects (smash and grab kinda thing) he decided he needed a little more firepower than a J-Frame could provide. But being a revolver guy my dad didn't know too much about automatic pistols, so sometime in the mid 80's (right before I was born) and on the advice of his Cop-friend (everybody should have one) he finally bought an automatic pistol; this HK P7M13.



I'm pretty sure my Pops had NO idea who or what HK was, but apparently his cop-friend was in the know.


Fast-forward to 1995 ( I would've been 7), and my Dad (by now a true HK Snob) comes home with this baby; a first year production HK USP .45



Combining me and my Father's shooting, both of these guns have seen well over 20,000 rounds (a piece) over +/- 20 years of shooting; and other than ammo related failures (Hard primer etc) Both the P7M13 and the USP have never stovepipe'd, failed to feed, failed to eject etc....

Most people I know are dissuaded from buying HK products because "Damn their too expensive", or "$1100.00 for a plastic pistol??? No way!!!". And while the price is certainly higher than many other polymer pistols, you DO get what you pay for.

The USP .45 was the first (or one of the first) high-cap polymer .45's available, and looking at the new HK 45 (basically just a more ergonomic USP) it beats the HK 45 in capacity (12 vs 10) but loses to it with the propriety rail vs picatinny-style on the HK 45.


The P7M13 is just......well it's just as cool as the other side of the pillow. When I was younger I always used to get mad because I didn't have the tensile strength to depress the Squeeze-cocker (Which is another reason why my dad bought it, lol). The low bore-axis in addition to little or no recoil enables this gun (with a proficient shooter) to literally shoot 1-1.5" groups at 25 yards with ease.

Sadly, my Father was killed in 2006, but thankfully I have some tangible pieces of History that I can pick up and touch. Every time I go to the range with one of his guns I feel like my Dad is right there next to me.

In conclusion, if you're in the market for an automatic pistol, but you just can't make your mind up.... go with Ze Germans.

Glock "Perfection" HAHA.

"In a world of compromise, some don't."-- HK

Look me up when you get tired of that P7. Beautiful!!

I have a USP9 and a P2000 .40. LOVE HKs but hate a lot of their triggers .

Dint be bashing my Glocks!!!

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About the triggers....totally AGREE! V1 Triggers are.....sub-par to say the least. However with the USP i get around it by carrying cocked and locked.

Have you ever tried the Light LEM trigger? If you like DAO it's pretty amazing.

Yes I have. In fact both my HKs are LEM

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I've got a couple HK's although the Beretta recoil system is very similar to Benelli. Joe

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Wisdom chases me; I'm faster

seconds

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Neat story, thanks for sharing. That is really cool that he came home with the P7M13!!

I'm etting into HK's myself and just love the P7 series; an amazing line with awesome triggers!

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Cheers, Charles
SWCA #2442

I have a 2004 vintage USP .45 that has an OD green frame. They did not make many of these. They are popular on the HK forum because they did not make many.
The mag holds 12 on this one.

I changed the front sight to a fiber optic because I could not see it well at the range.

I also have German made P220's. One is a .45 and the other is a .38 Super.

I also have a Walther P-1.

I like German guns.

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Corripe Cervisiam

You have to love that P7, I think its the only pistol I would trade my mid 60's C-Code Hi Power for...and thats saying alot because I have had at least 6 hi-powers and everytime I let one go I have to have another.
The only HK I have not had the pleasure of owning is a MK23, they are very ellusive...I've been told that the trigger in the HK45C is very close to trigger in the MK23.
I bought myself a little P2000K in 9mm and was very happy with it for CCW. My wife sent herself through a local "Women Shooters Class" and when she was finished I asked her which pistols she liked to shoot. She said "Sigs and Glocks", I asked her didn't they have any HK's, she said "No HKs." I made the mistake of taking her to the range and letting her try out my little P2000K, thats how I ended up with the new HK45C, try to pry that little pistol away from her. She said its the closest thing to a sewing machine you can get in a 9mm pistol, I have to agree. About the only thing that took me any time getting used to with the newer polymer HK pistols is the ambi magazine drop, but once you get used to it its like second nature and you wonder why everybody doesn't use it. I haven't tried any lead bullets through any of my HKs, I've been told the barrel does not lend itself to lead but I suppose if you got it hard enough it would.
Hang onto the P7...unless you want to trade it for a really nice mid 60's C-Code Hi-Power, then I'm your man.

My one H&K is a P7 M8 and I love it. It is the only 9 mm I own.

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I am a sheep dog!
1601 (ret)

thanks for sharing your story...

other than the USP i am not too familiar with HKs...sadly enough i do not own a USP myself...however is on my ever-growing wish list

Always wanted a .45 cal P9S!

I own a P2000 V2 (LEM) in .40 S&W. The trigger is a bit different, but not something difficult to become accustom to.

Note: It's actually my wife's gun being a duplicate of her daily carry piece. Her port won't allow practice with the issued guns using anything other than the issued ammunition. By contract, they are supposed to get 100 rounds every quarter for practice before qualifying, but it's been close nearly two and a half years since they handed any out. Homeland Security must really be hording ammo.....

I own many fine pistols and revolvers but no H&K's. I might have to make some room in my safe now!!

I had a P7M8 for 10 years and replaced it with a P2000 after I lost part of my middle finger....my head tells me the P2000 is lighter, holds more rounds and has a better trigger (LEM) for CCW...but i still miss my M8...for pure shooting pleasure, few handguns match it. I mostly carry my 442 in the summer and leave it set up for HD...

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Thirty characters. Exactly...

Nice story. I'm issued a .40 P2000 LEM something or other. It shoots, that's about all I will say for it. No more reliable than other brands I've used, and the trigger is like nothing else out there (this is not a good thing, for training purposes) IMO.
HK. Doing everything a Glock will, at twice the price.

I see where youre coming from but if you train with that gun and use that gun it shouldn't be an issue. Also, that can be said for a majority of pistols out there

LMAO


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I am among the vast minority of americans that prefer the original (PSP) mag release on the heel..... I really like the extra capacity of the p7m13, but cannot get used to the mag drop..... LOL they are one of the best pistol designs EVER.... too bad the price ran them out of production, an absolute jewel!

The only ones who make more complicated gadgets/weapons/cars/motorcycles/etc are the Italians!

My Benelli B-76 is proof of that!

As someone once said, "If the Germans can make a weapon with 500 parts , the Americans can make it with 250 , the Russians with 125 and the Italians with 5000!"

Lol so true. Generally Germans love to over engineer, I think more so then Italians. Compare a BMW to a Fiat



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It's kinda hard to find something the Germans don't make well. guns, optics, cars. I'm sure at some point they will lower their corporate q/c standards like us to save a few bucks. my Beneli montfeltro shotgun was made by H&K.

P7 M8 and M14 as good as they get IMHO, I even like the PSP Euro police model...Owned the P10 for a year it was just to heavy for my hand but was accurate as any H&K sqeeze cocker..sets low in the hand solid barrel and I found all P7's very accurate...A fine pistol even at the price...The P10 40cal are going at very high prices just because of the collector value.......H&K sort of like a BMW cost lots, worth almost as much.....To bad the P7 model are out of production, but I never understood why SW got rid of the 3915 and 3953....corperate decesion ??? I still would like a P7 M8, if I could get one in cherry shap even tough the blue models have that purple tint....I had heard, I think on this site thaqt the purple tint is from the hardness of the blueing process......That is beyond my personel knowledge but sounds likely..

Fiat = Fix It Again, Tony!

I was think more along the lines of a Mercedes to a Ferrari.

Or a Harley to a Ducati or Moto Guzzi.

Ever try to tune a Dell'Orto carb?!?! Need to change just the idle , low , mid or hi range air/fuel mixture and you'll have re-adjust the others too. With shims. Lots of shims.


Or do a valve adjustment on an old Ducati?!?!

They don't use valve springs. The cams are driven with bevel gears and shafts. Valves are opened and closed with gear-driven forked mechanical rockers and cam followers.

And ya adjust them all with shims , lots of shims!

Don't forget the 8 quarts of oil.

:what:



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The one thing I never liked about the PSP type guns was that loud "snap!" they made if you released the cocking lever without firing. It was so loud, it was like snapping a chicken bone in half.

As I recall too, they weren't safe with lead bullets, not because of bore fouling as in Glocks, but because of the gas system. They're a delayed blowback that uses gas pressure to keep the slide closed until the bullet exits the barrel. A gunsmith friend out in California told me he once saw one launch a slide downrange.

My best friend owned a P9S-45. It was an interesting gun but had feeding issues. It took a stiff load to function reliably, and even then it was iffy.

As to their current product line, they don't make anything that interests me. I don't like full sized semi-autos with conventional double action triggers anyway. A friend has a newer H&K auto and the trigger pull is simply gruesome. Not as bad as a Colt All American 2000, but VERY heavy.

The best guns they ever sold here were the HK91 and HK93. I once drove off a carjacker with an HK93A3. Of course they stopped selling them to mere citizens.

I bought this 9mm USP because the price was right and I wanted to give H&K a try:



It is boringly reliable with any 9mm load I put in it. The trigger doesn't bother me. I've since added a Surefire light (had to get the adapter) and it now does nightstand duty.

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“What you got, ain’t new.”

I am a smith fanatic and with that being said my other great love is H&K! The trigger is smoother than my smiths (I own several trigger variations) but what the H&K has above all the rest IMO is an outstanding recoil system! The recoil on my H&K's is smooth as a baby's bottom which makes for excellent follow ups with very tight groupings. I am sure I will get a whipping for this but there is no comparison to be made between a glock and a H&K. H&K has been doing it longer and does it better and I gladly spend more to have them!

Great story!!

Never cared for any H&K other than the P7. Not a DA/SA person and their triggers stink! There are guns that perform equally as well for much less.

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Life Is A Gift. Defend it!

Worked great with the old Remington 185gr SJHP+P , the original factory hot-rod load for the .45. The bullet had a big cavity , yet profile of the GI 230gr ball round. Even fed great in stock 1911A1s with the old style mags.

USP Compact .40 owner, LEM trigger.

I have had it for 7 years, thousands and thousands of rounds.

Not one failure to feed or stovepipe. Ever. No breakages, ever.

I love it.

The trigger on the LEM for me is as good as my Glock (the best plastic gun trigger I've tried so far is an FN FNX 40, it uses a dual sided disconnect like on a 1911 and breaks very cleanly).

I love the mag release! I hit it with my trigger finger as I bring the gun back, the mag drops free (every time), at the same time I'm fetching another mag. By the time my pistol hand comes back I'm slapping in a fresh mag and back on target. Mag changes are super fast.

After all these years the pistol shows only the faintest wear. The finish on the slide is spotless and fresh despite being carried in a holster its entire life.

Great pistol worth every penny, and I'd stake my life on it.

Try the trigger on a Walther PPQ

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That HK P7M13 is very much of a collector's gun now, even in well used condition, and parts for them are, for the time being, still available from HK.

I would strongly recommend stocking up on some parts while you can still get them.

Join one of the HK forums, and ask which parts are prone to breaking, and order them up. They will be expensive, but you will thank yourself some years done the line.

I can only remember the name of one of the HK forums off-hand:

HKPRO.COM Home

HK does make NICE semiauto pistols, but they are expensive. They do have a well deserved reputation for reliability. You do get what you pay for, with an HK.

I'm the proud owner of a PSP, and one of the things I like to do is to use it to qualify/requalify for my CHL. The younger range masters vapor lock as they try to figure out what it is, and how do you safe it, the old timers just smile, and the peasants, well, I leave them to suffer with their "lesser" guns (Glocks, Sigs, etc.). My P-7 is boringly accurate and reliable - I shot perfrect scores on my first qualification and my first requalification, and no FTE, FTF, etc.

Last Christmas, we bought our son his first .22LR rifle. He selected a H&K 416 (made under license by Umarex), and when we took it to the range the day after Christmas, the guy next to us asked what type of rifle we were shooting. Well, he didn't understand "Umarex", but he did understand "H&K" - "oh yeah, one of them there HK guns...you know that HK stands for High Kost, don't you?" The things you learn while at the range.

Regards,

Dave