It's sad that my state leads the way.

[kozmic]

This isn't meant to be a political commentary so please don't take it there.

This is solely meant to illustrate a saddening trend that some states face. The how and why is not a part of this thread.

Income losses in moves from NY - 13WHAM - Top Stories

[mg357]

The world really stinks sometimes.

[dsbock]

You link doesn't work.

I'm not surprised. I heard that reported on the radio this morning. NY #1, California #2, and Illinois #3 in population generated income losses.

Policy decisions have consequences and people can still vote with their feet.

By the way, where in upstate are you located?

David

[HankG]

Nothing to do with politics, it's how people are raised to look at the world around them. Perceptions of the world in the good old USA have changed over the last two generations. It's not going to go back to a pride in ones self sufficiency again. To many young adults raised with the feeling they've been screwed over by society. Those that still have the need and the training to excel will go where they feel they can excel. The rest will mill around like a herd of sheep texting on their I phones and trying to figure out what 2x3 =s.

[BaaBaa]

New York State losing most tax money - 13WHAM - Top Stories

I think this is the story. folks moving to Florida out of other states.

[dsbock]

Originally Posted by BaaBaa

New York State losing most tax money - 13WHAM - Top Stories

I think this is the story. folks moving to Florida out of other states.

Thanks for the fixed link.

Florida is getting the losses from New York and Illinois combined! I remember hearing that Texas and Arizona are gaining from the exodus. I wonder who else the big winners are?

David

[NYlakesider]

Many people are leaving and of the ones I know they are good middle class folks. The tax everything till it dies and squander the money on feel good programs is getting real old.

Quite a few are leaving because NY already crazy gun laws totally went crazy with the SAFE act passage and quite a few people including a very good friend and a family member are moving. No doubt the MSM will not mention the SAFE act as a reason to leave.

As for me at age 68 and failing health I will probably stay here, but rest assured when I built my new house in 04, if I realized how bad things would be I would have moved then.

[Farmer17]

A ton of people are moving to Oklahoma. OKC has always been pretty good about building enough roads and not having bad traffic jams but the traffic has gotten terrible lately. We talk to people all the time who have just moved here, several are from the Detroit area and they all act like its so bad they don't ever want to go back. The unemployment rate here has been around 4% and construction is booming so its sometimes hard to get a contractor to return your phone call, and it's great that the economy is so good but I hope things pick up in other areas because it doesn't need to get any more crowded.

[kozmic]

Sorry about the link. I checked it on my laptop but something must have got lost in translation!

It not only the "good tax payin' folks" who are leaving but they are also the venture capitalists, the ones with disposable income, the educated, entrepreneurs, small business owners (ie. employers), young people looking to raise their families and start their careers....... So it's painful on many levels today and will continue to be a problem in the future.

We had a billionaire business person build a lavish estate a few years back. He puts tens of millions of dollars back into the community annually. He questioned his property tax bill as it was out of line with the few contemporaries that we existing to his new home. He got fed up and moved to Florida. He spends a few months a year here now. He calculated that he saves in excess of $15,000 PER DAY by living there!

Hard to argue with that logic!

[kozmic]

Originally Posted by dsbock

By the way, where in upstate are you located?

David

I'm in the Rochester area David. Still a ways from you!

[dsbock]

Originally Posted by kozmic

We had a billionaire business person build a lavish estate a few years back. He puts tens of millions of dollars back into the community annually. He questioned his property tax bill as it was out of line with the few contemporaries that we existing to his new home. He got fed up and moved to Florida. He spends a few months a year here now. He calculated that he saves in excess of $15,000 PER DAY by living there!

Hard to argue with that logic!

Are you talking about Tom Golisano the Founder of Paychex?

I know Tom moved to Florida. He was talking about moving the company offices out of New York as well. Do you know if this ever happened?

David

[kozmic]

Originally Posted by dsbock

Are you talking about Tom Golisano the Founder of Paychex?

I know Tom moved to Florida. He was talking about moving the company offices out of New York as well. Do you know if this ever happened?

David

Thankfully, no. Although NYS seems to continue to its best to try to make that happen. They continue to be headquartered here.

[NZshooter]

Originally Posted by Farmer17

A ton of people are moving to Oklahoma. OKC has always been pretty good about building enough roads and not having bad traffic jams but the traffic has gotten terrible lately. We talk to people all the time who have just moved here, several are from the Detroit area and they all act like its so bad they don't ever want to go back.

I'm outside Detroit now... wish I had followed my gut and moved to Tulsa after college

[Xtasy]

Got to love no State income tax

[feralmerril]

I havent read all the replys but to me it appears simple. Those states have lost many jobs, the people that worked them in good times are retireing to florida. Detroit for instance is a no brainer. The welfare is up in those states due to no jobs and the taxs come from those who can pay. Its like jumping on a bubble bag. Pealing the next layer off to see why there is no jobs in no way can this be discussed without talking politics. Lets all bury our heads in the sand now and continue---

[smokindog]

I only hope that the people moving from someplace to Texas want to embrace the things that have made Texas a desirable destination and NOT try to bring their "from" with them!

[timn8er]

Originally Posted by Xtasy

Got to love no State income tax

Oklahoma has state income tax. Texas doesn't!

[Xtasy]

Originally Posted by smokindog

I only hope that the people moving from someplace to Texas want to embrace the things that have made Texas a desirable destination and NOT try to bring their "from" with them!

Are you referring to Austin?

[NCTexan]

Originally Posted by dsbock

You link doesn't work.

I'm not surprised. I heard that reported on the radio this morning. NY #1, California #2, and Illinois #3 in population generated income losses.

Policy decisions have consequences and people can still vote with their feet.

By the way, where in upstate are you located?

David

Forum rules rightly prevent political comments... so I won't comment on the obvious.

[indiandave]

Kahr Arms voted with their feet and moved to Pennsylvania. It will mean 100 plus jobs for my county. I guess they told Cuomo where he can shove his safety act.

[Nico Testosteros]

More people isn't necessarily better. More people means taxes go up, the cost of land goes up, pollution of the air and water increases.

[Mike McLellan]

I grew up in Detroit, then moved to New York. Maybe I was simply naive, or unsophisticated about politics, or, more likely, stoned most of the time, but I really liked both places. I moved to Alaska in 1973, and, even though my pot smokin' days are long gone, I'm glad to be here. Lots of freedom and lots of room. Still, wish it wasn't so darn cold in the winter.

[carpriver]

I live in the U.P. of Michigan, unemployment remains high here, iron mining is declining, the tree huggers don't want new mining to start for fear of pollution, logging it still going fairly well, there are several paper mill in the U.P. and some forest related businesses, very little manufacturing mostly small shops. city taxes remain fairly constant. But city services and schools are starting to have problems. Then there are those folks from down state Mi. WI, IL. and IN. that want to retire here. but they want to bring there city conveniences and city problems; those were the things they want to escape. We are seeing more drugs and gang related activities, more B&Es. I moved here in 1976, when the USAF sent me here I stayed because I fell in love with the beauty, the need to be independent and the strong values that come with living in the this environment. Last year Michigan started to Tax military and social security retirement income. I have and still considering moving to and more tax friendly state.

[PALADIN85020]

For you folks in NY, IL, CO, MA, CT and CA: Here is your engraved invitation:

Come to Arizona. You are welcome to bring your guns. Full autos and suppressors in compliance with Federal law are welcome here. We have Constitutional carry. Arizona law preempts any local attempts at gun control a la Chicago. You will probably save money in the process - taxes here are not oppressive. Jobs are becoming more plentiful. It's a business-friendly state. Shooting is on a par with golf and tennis - it's a sport, and a fun one. We have "stand your ground" and "castle" laws in place. Self-defense is assumed rather than automatically questioned in your own home. A crook in your home, if shot by you, cannot sue you, and neither can his/her family. The legislature and the governor are gun-friendly. If you're fed up and can't stand it any more, you have an alternative. Come to one of the last free states! You will be quite welcome. When you can vote with your feet, do so.

John

[ladder13]

Originally Posted by Nico Testosteros

More people isn't necessarily better. More people means taxes go up, the cost of land goes up, pollution of the air and water increases.

AND, red goes blue.

[GaryS]

My observation is that when people move to a different area, it's because they like that area and the way of life.

A lot of people seem to want to blame outsiders moving in for changes in politics, but I disagree. I think what they are seeing is the result of their education system on young people. Or maybe I should say indoctrination system instead of education system.

I know a lot of people who have moved from MA to NH. Every one of them is a conservative or libertarian who left MA in disgust. I know a lot of other people who moved down south because the economic opportunities, life style, and environment for raising children are much more welcoming than MA.

Politics and economics go hand in hand, but I'm not going to mention politics. I'll just say that some firms such as Kahr, MagPul, and others have found the economic atmosphere more conducive to success in states that coincidentally happen to be more conservative politically. I wonder if that's coincidence?

My wife and I plan to move as soon as we can get everything in order. That's a matter of finances and family and will take a few years. We'll head south, but exactly where we haven't decided.

To paraphrase Zell Miller, "We aren't leaving Massachusetts, Massachusetts is leaving us."

[mc5aw]

Originally Posted by kozmic

I'm in the Rochester area David. Still a ways from you!

kozmic ... I'm south of you across the border, next to Waverly. The sad thing for me is that NYS is an incredibly beautiful place, filled with history, but is so contrary to the things I believe in there was no way I could live on that side of the property line. NY is one state that has been governed by arrogance and ego to the point of no return.

[Doug M.]

As my wife finished her PhD, I insisted on being nowhere south or East of Albany. I wanted to go home to the NE. I grew in the Rochester area (yup, still recognized TV13), and spent 14 horrid years in the People's republic of Illinois doing my education and waiting for her to finish hers. Most of those last years, I drove a truck up to New England weekly. I loved the east.

That world is dead and gone. The scenery in this part of Washington does nothing for me; there is little green in sight and not much close, either. However, my life is here. The last time I was home to any extent was over 20 years ago, and I saw the start of the decay. Friends tell me it continues, and even solid parts of town are drooping. I'll be in Pittsford in October for a couple days for a family event, and it will be interesting to see how bad things have gotten.

[S&W45Colt]

At some point people get tired of Government thinking it owns the people and they are nothing other than revenue sources. I can't blame them for leaving. Last time I was in NY, it was for a while in NYC and L.I. I could not wait to leave (I'm being polite and not using adjectives).

Upstate is nice and so are the people, but unless Albany and NYC fall into a sink hole, the normal people in NY are outnumbered. I'd run out of there too.

[pharmer]

Originally Posted by PALADIN85020

For you folks in NY, IL, CO, MA, CT and CA: Here is your engraved invitation:
Come to Arizona. You are welcome to bring your guns. John

Careful with that. We are getting full up with these folks. Half bid up the price of guns and the other half are fixing to turn Florida blue in one or two more election cycles. Plus we got so many 50 year old retirees driving nowhere in particular but doing it in the left lane at 20 under the limit. Joe

[Xtasy]

Originally Posted by pharmer

Careful with that. We are getting full up with these folks. Half bid up the price of guns and the other half are fixing to turn Florida blue in one or two more election cycles. Plus we got so many 50 year old retirees driving nowhere in particular but doing it in the left lane at 20 under the limit. Joe

The day Florida turns blue I will leave this place. Already now we are getting slammed with more and more stupid laws every day.
The snowbirds are trying to impose their will on the people because they pretty much just want to have everything like at home but better weather...

[GaryS]

Don't worry, I can't think of a reason I'd ever want to move to Florida. It's certainly been blue the past several election cycles and I don't know that that will change.

Originally Posted by pharmer

Careful with that. We are getting full up with these folks. Half bid up the price of guns and the other half are fixing to turn Florida blue in one or two more election cycles. Plus we got so many 50 year old retirees driving nowhere in particular but doing it in the left lane at 20 under the limit. Joe

[LVSteve]

Originally Posted by Xtasy

The day Florida turns blue I will leave this place. Already now we are getting slammed with more and more stupid laws every day.
The snowbirds are trying to impose their will on the people because they pretty much just want to have everything like at home but better weather...

As the Eagles said, "You call some place Paradise, kiss it goodbye".

[vito]

Just heard on the news today that Ruger is leaving Conn. and moving their plant to N.C. When jobs leave, people do as well. I am stuck right now in the worst state in the country, or at least one of the worst: Illinois. But with a house that I would lose more than I can afford to if I sell, and with three of my grown kids and several grandkids in WI, IA and IL I have a feeling there is no way I am leaving. And as much as I hate IL for the taxes, corruption and anti-gun climate, I'm not about to move where I can't readily see my children and grandchildren.

[medalguy]

That pretty well describes Austin. That's why I left there for Houston. Twenty-plus years there and it too became like many big northern cities, getting pretty liberal in the political views. Then we moved north of Houston and all was well for a good many years, but now the winds of change are blowing that way too. So, we decided to move over to New Mexico. Yeah I know it's blue but we're going to try it here our last years. At least here I can get out and shoot on a regular basis, the humidity is low so I'm not trying to sight through sweat drops, and we have real seasons again. And the gun shows here are interesting, not full of big dealers with tables full of new stock.

[LVSteve]

People are allowed to move from state to state, it's one of the benefits of living in the US. If a state, county or city loses a chunk of its tax base and it causes a problem, it is a sure sign of previous mismanagement. The assumption of unlimited growth combined with a "me now" attitude has messed up the finances of many communities. There is no quick fix for this due to:

1) the greed for money and power of elected officials

2) the total rejection by US business to accept the concept that very rapid growth can be a problem.

3) The belief that growth will pay for itself. That myth is so busted it's no longer funny.