:Welding vs Silver soldering

M

mwtdvm

Member
Joined
Aug 2, 2005
Messages
912
Reaction score
237
Location
Starkville, MS
1. The problem: I have an Olympus AR-15 that shoots 45 ACP. Unfortunately the magazines are now nonexistent and Oly has modified the new lowers that there is no returning to a 223 or other caliber. The original mags I have were from either a Sten gun or an Uzi mag that has a piece of bar stock welded to the back of the mag to be the proper width. Then bar stock has a slot cut in it and also some more superficial changes.

The solution: I found ten Sten gun mags on line for a very reasonable price. After cleaning off the :Cosmoline and imbedded sand and other stuff and getting rid of any corrosion with Mr. Dremel, they look pretty good.

I have a small oxy/acetylene torch and an even smaller acetylene jeweler's torch that I can use with silver solder to hold the two pieces together.
But looking at the mags I have I suspect they were arc welded, which I have no access to.

I know at least three people here know the answer!

1> I don't have the technical skills, get somebody else to do it

2> The silver solder will work fine

3> Braise the pieces with the oxy/acetylene torch

4> Use the jeweler's torch with the biggest tip to braise the two pieces together

5> Pay somebody to arc weld them together.

Thanks in advance!!
 
Register to hide this ad
If you are skilled with silver solder I would try that and see how it holds up. Arc welding will change the base metal, silver solder will not. If it works you have a solution, if it does not you can move on to more intrusive processes.
 
Pondoro said:
If you are skilled with silver solder I would try that and see how it holds up. Arc welding will change the base metal, silver solder will not. If it works you have a solution, if it does not you can move on to more intrusive processes.
Click to expand...

I agree with Pondoro, I'd at least try the silver solder first.
 
Silver Solder (Hard Solder) will hold the pieces together for you.
It needs considerable heat to do hard soldering. You'll have the steel parts in the 1100F+ range when the stuff flows depending on the specific solder.
Brazing is somewhat higher heat yet and is considerably stronger.
But both with leave the mag bodys in that area annealed most likely if they had any HT to them at all. Many have the feed lip area hardened to resist & wear keep their form better.
With that heat needed, the sheet metal mag body is going to be lit up quite a way along it's length.
It'll be covered w/heat scale when it cools unless protected. Another thing to consider,,removing that and a finish to apply to the metal.

Silver bearing soft solder might do the job if the area of contact is large enough and you do a good job of fitting and sweat soldering.
Constant use and the push/pull on the mag body may eventually weaken the joint though with one side being flexible sheet metal.

With all that said,,I'd probably make up a simple jig to hold the parts in position. Doesn't need to be fancy, just accurate.
Then take all the mags and the extension backs to a welding shop and have them TIG them together in the jig.
Way less heat that way and more precise. Minimal damage to any finish w/TIG. a bit of touch up to the weld and that's about it
Shouldn't cost much as the time needed to do the job is low if everything is ready to go.

Just my thoughts
 
Last edited:
I would venture an opinion that there are a series of small dents down the length of the bar. If so they are spot welds. If so, a metal fabricating shop will be able to take care of you. Once you have the bugs worked out you have a cottage industry. Ivan
 
radar1972 said:
I agree with Pondoro, I'd at least try the silver solder first.
Click to expand...

Me too, try one and see what happens. You had better have some sort of a heat-sink to dissipate excess heat from going where it is not needed/wanted!

Dave, Retired long time welder!

PS. Silver solder is normally what is used to join both tube/ribs of a double barrel shotgun.
 
Good quality silver solder with a low soft flame on the torch will work. Silver solder holds at 20k tensile strength and welds at 400 degrees.
Use a direct flame but intermittingly. Work the solder slowly and don't keep the heat all in one area move it away often once the metal is hot. Remember 400 degrees will weld it.

Retired welder for Otis Elevator North American Operations World Headquarters Engineering. "Lead tech"
 
Last edited:
Just a hint. Break the mag down, taking the spring and the follower out. No reason to subject them to any heat. Figure out a heat sink for the magazine lips. Often a small vise grips clamped to them will keep the heat down.
 
Silver solder

I have used silver solder on a lot of applications, with a Oxy/Acet torch.....your surface metal on ur mag needs to be bare metal - void of any finish as does the bar stock - and it needs to be degreased....use flux/cleaner paste on the bare metal as you heat it.....silver solder is used to hold airconditioning hi pressure discharge copper lines together and they are subjected to several hundred lbs of PSI internal pressure on the discharge side of the compressor & they get HOT......I have also silver soldered scope mounts to rifle recvr's on 30-06 rifles, and they were in service for years....a lot of folks confuse silver solder with soft solder, but they are two separate metals.......when you have run your solder and made your joints.....quench the metal with water....you can dress the solder down with a file to make it uniform. The product I use is "Sta-Silv 15" made by Harris products....they are "silver brazing alloy"(what is says on the label) rods.....they are flat, rather than round like welding rods.....been using them for decades, and they are good stuff.
As pointed out in the above post - remove the follower and spring and wrap a wet rag around the mag lips.....but if you know how to use a torch, you will not get the mag lips that hot. I would use a pair of vice grip welding clamps or a pair of needle nosed vice grips to hold the two pcs together.
 
Last edited:
I don't know what these spacer or backers look like or if they are made up already or not...
Another possibility is to make them from aluminum stock. Saves weight. You can get lengths of it at Home Depot type stores if you don't have other sources.

Attach the mag and aluminum spacer w/epoxy. A good fit and roughed up clean surface using a quality expoxy and they won't separate.
No damage to metal finishes. Easy to line up while working with it.
Just another way of doing the job.
Epoxy would work as well for attaching steel spacers to the mag body.

I can see the confusion over the term Silver Solder again. To many people, silver solder is a high temp,over 1000F solder otherwise called 'hard solder'.
It is mostly copper with silver, zinc and sometimes other metals in it. Many different alloys as there are with all the solders.

Since the greenies pushed for a lead free world ,,a lead free soft solder appeared in the form of 'Silver Solder' to take the place of common plumbers lead/tin solder.
It's generally tin w/a small persentage of silver in it, 3 to 5%. Some alloys have additional copper and/or zinc added for different applications.
It does have a much greater strength than the 50/50 or 60/40 lead-tin solders and melts and flows at not much higher temps. In the 400F range but alloys vary.
BTW,,lead/tin soft solder (50/50) is still the choice for re-rib jobs by most gunsmiths doing that work.
 
That is a very good question!!

jag312 said:
How will the 9mm Sten magazines work with a .45 Auto rifle?
Click to expand...

But that seems to be the case. The 45 ACP rounds fit and they protrude. Guess the Sten was not built to too close of tolerances. As an aside, the attempted assassination of Reinhard Heydrich almost failed when the Sten gun jammed.... Heydrich was a very very bad dude and absolutely ruthless. His life makes interesting reading.. (Thread drift off)
 
Knew you guys would come through!!

I appreciate all the time and effort spent replying. I have enough of the mags to try some of each. The TIG and wire welding are new to me so I will also look into that. I can make a jig to hold it all together without a problem.
The funny thing is I have a Hi-Point 45 ACP carbine that works better than the oly. the Hi-Point reminds me of a AK 47 - all stamped and rolled steel and UGLY but it just keeps on shooting. The Hi-Point mags can be made High Cap from 45ACP single stack high cap, which is also what I want to do with the Sten mags. Oly supplied one is chopped and only holds 7-8.

Thanks again!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Kiwi cop
New competition .22. How do I choose?
Replies
5
Views
2K
Kiwi cop
Kiwi cop
500 Magnum Nut
  • Locked
  • Sticky
FAQ
Replies
0
Views
23K
500 Magnum Nut
500 Magnum Nut
silver armadillo
As I Promised , The Rare 5 Inch Nickel 4 Screw Mod 29
Replies
19
Views
3K
Leatherhead23
Leatherhead23
O
Plastic "welding" a 15 round 15-22 magazine from Promag 32
Replies
6
Views
2K
Oreo57
O
Bob Smalser
A Promotion Gift
2
Replies
25
Views
5K
357 Magnum
3

Latest posts

Back
Top