....................We are hooking them up to Chevy tow trucks.

FIRST: The 6.0 diesel is a hunk. Of junk. Low service life on many of the components. EGR issues, one after another. Turbos that eat themselves for breakfast. Alternators that cook batteries after 2-3 years, with consistency. Then, they eat themselves anywhere from 47,500 miles to 120k. (I can live with the 120K..... It's the rest of them that chaff my hide. The FICM likes to malfunction, so you feel kinda like they switched the 'I' to a 'U' in FICM. Injectors hide under the valve covers. Getting to them requires surgery, not for the faint of heart.

And, we have several of the 6.4 motors. They are fun; they like to over-fuel during the regeneration exhaust cleaning, which winds up forcing diesel down past the rings into the oil. And, then you have to change the oil on the early side, or spin a main bearing. (Ask me how I know...... ) They also enjoy over-pressuring the block, and pushing oil from the seams on the block and the various seals. Yeah, the clean diesel thing from you is enough to make me rip my hair out.

And now, our best running 6.4 was losing coolant. A head gasket?? Not sure. A coolant bottle issue? Not sure. It WAS pushing coolant out of the bottle consistently when running at normal hot temp. But, I digress. This is a motor with 58,500 easy miles on it.
So, in the shop it went. And, well- the Ford super duty trucks, you have to pull the whole cab off to do the heads, or fight an extra 12 hrs. of misery trying to extricate all the parts from them. So, body is in the air. And, the #2 cylinder is cooked and gone. Whaaaat the hell is this?! What this is, is a shiny new long block assembly, for the paltry sum of $15,000!!!

I hate wrenching on these motors much of the time. They are really, really complicated in their design and serviceability suuuuucks.

A POX on Ford for abandoning the 7.3 Go jump off a bridge.
Almost makes me want to petition them to change their slogan to FORD; Quality is job none.

On the bright side, their transmissions have been pretty solid for the diesels. (Thank the Lord.) And, strangely enough...... We have yet to change out a single starter on these motors. Ya got that part right. (It's a start.) And, I can not fault the chassis' of the F450 and 550. It's a good chassis.

Strangely enough, our LCR cab over Ford with the hermorphadite V6 motor has been almost flawless; if not a gutless tractor motor. It won't beat a VW bug (Circa 1968, not 2008) onto the freeway, but it has run, and run and run like it wants to try and grow up to be a 7.3 someday!

And now I have 4 new 'tinkle trucks' with the urea injector for the exhaust. Supposedly, it can take pressure off the EGR system to lessen the effect of the scorching hot exhaust gases being funneled into the intake manifold. One can only dream.

I am thru venting for now. Cummins, FTW.

Feel free to vent anytime, I can relate. After working on those diesels, I'm sure a '04 or later triton v8 where the spark plugs don't come out, would be a walk in the park.

Oh, come on man- the spark plugs DO come out.



Well, at first, half the plug comes out; that's the easy part.
The harder part is the half still in there after the wrench goes from a 'groan' to a 'Tink!' sound!!!!

I have half a mind to believe that spark plug was the reason the S&W 500 was invented.

"Well, busted off a couple 'o plugs in the heads on the F150 Bob."

"Better break out the S&W 500 spark plug remover tool!"

Every vehicle I have owned since I learned what to do in 1988 has had a dose of copper based anti seize on the plug threads. If we get more of the gas motors at the shop, the first thing I will do- before even putting a company logo on them is to anti seize the plug threads.

Sounds like they are designing failure right into the engine.

How are the newer 5.0's in the f-150's?

Wingmaster

Ford claims that they have the highest percentage of vehicles still on the road.....

The rest of them actually made it home.

Just to play devil's advocate here, I really don't care what eveyone drives or how they feel about any one brand of vehicle.

When the new 1960 Ford Fairlane 500s came out my dad bought one. When we got it home it wouldn't even pull up into the driveway. Now my old man always kept a car or truck at least 10 years. But the Ford drove him crazy for a year. spent more time in the shop than in our garage and accumulated more mile on a wrecker trucks hook that on all 4 wheels.

He never bought another Ford the rest of his life and told me that if I ever bought one he'd beat me so bad my mama wouldn't recognize me.
I bought lots of Chevys over the next bunch of years. Never had much luck with them but didn't think much about it. It never occurred to me to buy a Ford because of my memories of the one my dad bought in '60.

But I finally got tired of having my cars and trucks rust out from under me and nickel and dime me to death on water pumps, fuel pumps, starters, brakes, yada, yada, yada.

The day before Thanksgiving 1990 I bought a new '91 Ford Ranger. Small cab, 4-cyl 4-spd no frills pickup truck. I drove the wheels off it for 11 years and never did anything to it but preventive maint. The day I sold it it still looked good and ran like it did the day I bought it. I was sold on Fords at that point.

I bought a new 2002 Ford ranger when they first came out. This one had the big 6-cyl engine and extended cab with automatic transmission and all the bells and whistles. I LOVED this little truck. I only kept it for two years because I got to where I needed a bigger truck. I hated to let it go but in 2004 I bought a new Ford F-150 Heritage. Big 6-cyl engine extended cab and auto trans.

I'm still drivin' that truck today and it still drives like it did brand new. It still looks good ie, no rust. And again I haven't had to do ANYthing except preventive maint.

You know. A motor vehicle is a very complicated machine. Any manufacturer can make a "bad" vehicle but how we take care of them is a most important factor in how long it lasts and how it performs for it's owner. I've always been very conscientious about taking care of my vehicles: Oil change ever 5K, radiator flush after two years and then annually there after, stuff like that.

I guess that until that old pendulum swings for me again I'm a Ford man. I have had nothing but good luck and good service from my Fords since that first Ford Ranger. If they ever let me down I'll deal with it but until then....I'll "dance with the one that brung me."

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Real men love cats!

I have seen the headache you speak of!! I actually chased a Ford Pickup that looked like a giant cloud of Fog was coming from the exhaust pipe. He pulled into a gas station and immediately started dousing the 6.0 diesel engine with water. I yelled not to open the radiator!! It turned out the giant cloud was water vapor. Once the engine cooled he refilled the radiator and sadly told me that he was heading to Ford for a major repair, the truck had less than 400 miles on it.
Oh, I was chasing him in my Ford Superduty with the 7.3 diesel engine!!

I like anti seize in several instances, but typically not on spark plugs in aluminum heads.

The newer Ford diesels may suck, but I sure do love my 7.3 Powerstroke.
Heard they abandon it because of the EPA. I have 200,000+ on mine and still real strong. If it goes before I do I will get a rebuild.

I'll push my Ford home before GM voluntarily gets another dime from me.

Poorest service and support I've experienced was with a new 2001 Silverado. Never again!

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GOA
USA Shooting Supporter

I learn more on these threads.!!! Feel like I'm ready to go out and tear down and rebuild an engine

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Forum consigliere

Like the gun industry, every manufacturer has it's problems. It's the American way! The manufacturers build them and WE get to do the testing and evaluation!

I'm a hard core Chevy man. But I've had problems too. Ford is ok and I don't like Dodge. It's all personal preference. Unfortunately any new vehicle you drive of the lot, you're taking a chance.

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Life Is A Gift. Defend it!

The above is why I have driven Toyota trucks for years. I usually buy a new one, when the old one goes over 150,000. At that time they are still going strong and the only money I have in them is regular maintenance costs. Best of all, Toyota trucks are made in San Antonio, Texas.

My advice is to drink heavily until you get over that feeling!

We had Ford ambulances for a long time, but abandoned them when they went to diesel only for ambulance chassis. That gave us another five years or so before we had to switch over to diesel engine chassis.

At which point we went from Chevy/GMC back to Ford. The 1991-1997 Ford trucks were pretty reliable. In 2000 we split the fleet buying 8 Fords and 20 something Chevy's. The Fords couldn't stay on the road, but that was chassis, not engined. The Chevy's had problems with the heads cracking, but were still more reliable than the Fords.

In 2003 we went to the GMC 4500 chassis. Great trucks, so of course in 2009 GM stopped production of them. The later ones had regen exhaust systems, and those drove the mechanics crazy since the city wouldn't buy the equipment to do it, so the trucks had to go out to the dealer OR the mechanics had to swap out the parts that needed regen, put in replacements, and send the parts out. Still, they were very reliable trucks.

Just before I retired, we switched over to International Terrastar chassis. I didn't have enough experience working in them to know, but the crews complained about them. Then again, our crews complained about every truck they had until the new ones came in. Then the old ones became nostalgic favorites.

I used to say that if the IRS found out how much we liked to complain and whine about stuff, they'd tax it as a benefit.

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Can open, worms everywhere.

My 2006 Tundra has only needed brakes, oil changes, and other routine maintenance. It did get a voluntary recall for Toyota to spray additional anti corrosive on the frame, but the frame was clean as a whistle.

I plan to drive it until the wheels fall off.

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Can open, worms everywhere.

My friend is a service manager at a dealership nearby and he told me when someone brings in that Ford engine where the plugs seize (I can't remember the engine) they quote $1200 for a spark plug change.

That's terrible they Ford would design such a system and then let the buyers take it in the shorts.

I just smile when I hear folks complain about their 6.0 which they call 6 Oh NO!

My 6 cylinder Cummins puts out 425hp and 875tq, and has been running without a single hitch for 175,000 miles so far. Someday I hope Ford can put a Cummins in their trucks.

.

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Kirk / Spock 2020

The last GM pick-up I owned in 1976 was a puddle of rust in 4 years w/good tires.

The 1978 Ford E-150 I bought new leaked water so badly into the van Ford shoulda included a bar of soap and holder on the console.

Didn't buy another Ford for 35 years thinking the water intrusion problems would be remedied but nope, the 3rd brake light's design on the F-150 just invites liquid to by-pass the gasket. Mine's failed twice since buying the truck new in 2010.

Other than water intrusion it's been a good truck.

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AKA: "Strange Tamer"

Heh, heh!

He said "moron".

I wish you could get a Ford Pickup with a Dodge (Cummins) engine and a Chevrolet (Allison) Transmission.

Now, That would be a good truck.

Wingmaster

I had a 2002 Silverado 2500HD with Duramax Diesel and Allison tranny. I put 100K on it then sold it, after a handful of problems started popping up. I expected more out of the truck to be honest. I love my 07 Mustang, and would never stray from the Pony corral, but if I went for another diesel truck, I think I'd go Cummins and Dodge.

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I'm with the banned ...

My 2000 F150 4X4 looks and runs like it did the day it came off the dealers lot. Never more then routine maintenance.

I would like to add my 2007 Toyota Tundra 5.8l to the mix and say in 50 years of driving it is by far the best vehicle..and pickup...I have ever owned. It has 102k trouble free miles, still has the original brake pads and rotors, get 18mpg+ freeway driving, and pulls my 25' travel trailer like it isn't even there. Plus it's made in San Antonio, Texas!

I got stiffed by Ford in 1974 and swore I'd never own another Ford in my life. My '97 Silverado started having issues in the first month I had it. When I looked at Chevy's in 07 before I bought my Tundra they still had drum brakes on the rear axle, plus their lousy "Fuel Management System" system was a big turn-off.

Can't say about the diesels or Super dutys but i have had
2 half ton Ford F150's and never had a lick of trouble out
of either. Had a half ton Chevy as well that was a very good
truck. A friend is trying to convince me into buying a Toyota
for my next full size but i've always bought American.
Any thoughts on the Toyota trucks ???

Chuck

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They hold no Quarter

Or buy a Tundra...

I used it for the twenty years I've owned my 1993 Harley-Davidson FLHS.


You really don't want to bugger up one of those heads.

Also on my Ford Racing 5.0L with aluminum GT-40 heads, swapped into my 1976 CJ5. Same deal.

My Toyota was made in Texas, the one before that was made in Indiana. I think Ford trucks are made in Mexico, GMC/Chevy trucks are made in Canada.

Which one is American?

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Can open, worms everywhere.

It seems that Toyota trucks are more "American" than some "American" companies.
Here is one link that came up with a quick google search:
Top 8 "Most American" Trucks for 2013 on Edmunds.com
You can do your own research - google the keywords "how American is my truck" and check it out.
Also look up "Toyota frame recall" - they had a severe rust problem, and they took care of it and treated their customers right. A guy at work got a brand new frame put under his Tacoma under their recall.
I'm actually considering looking at Toyota someday when I buy my next truck, and that's coming from a die-hard Chevrolet man.

My 2001 F250 7.3 PowerStroke is still going strong, glad I have it instead of a newer Ford diesel after hearing all these stories.

On the anti-seize, I've used it forever on spark plugs in all kinds of aluminum heads - Lotus Twin-Cams and Cosworth, many Alfa Romeos, old and new Triumph motorcyles, even the Group 2 Opel Ascona rally car with the FIA cross-flow head. All expensive heads to replace, and never had an issue. Still on the original can of silver stuff, label wore off 30 years ago.

Funny coincidence about the Ford F-series/Cummins/Allison combo, got a friend here with an F250 who describes that as his perfect truck.

One of Fords better ideas!

Toyota bought my son's Tacoma back from him at 1.5x the Kelly Blue Book price during that program. They gave my son a rental car to use for a month while they processed his paperwork. He then went out and bought another Tacoma.
They also bought my neighbors beat to **** Tacoma that he used for work. He bought another Tacoma too.

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Can open, worms everywhere.

100,000 miles on a set of plugs seems to be a little excessive. I've changed the plugs on my 97 F150 every 50,000 and they come out just fine. Plenty of room to get at them and plugs are cheap. Trucks are machines, and machines wear or are assembled wrong or in some cases are engineered poorly. Most problems can be fixed. While I like Fords, any of the new pickups would be welcomed in my garage. Mostly, they seem to do what they are supposed to do. Pick the features you can afford.
I am amazed at how well the new metal panels resist rust on these trucks. 180000 miles and no rust showing.

My original set of plugs went 100,000 miles, which was the Toyota service interval.

Of course I remember when you had to change plugs about once a year. Not to mention points, condenser, distributor caps, and wires.

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Can open, worms everywhere.

Great thread, the OP was highly entertaining, you should summit an article to a car/truck magazine!

Our 2005 Toyota 4Runner has 195K and rides almost like new. The steering box is just starting to get some play, but we spend at least 2 weekends a month on dirt roads with all of those crazy ripples that form.

At 180K miles we replaced the head gaskets.

At the current prices of cars and trucks, we'll be driving this one for at least three more years.

It's cheaper to fix (even replace and engine) than buy a new truck.

I've had a 2000 and a 2004 Focus. The first was wrecked by the dealer (don't ask) and replaced with the second. They gave me a good deal, but the first was paid off. However, it had 7 recalls and "campaigns" in the 3+ years I had it. The 2004 was at 180+K when I sold it to a friend for his kids, and I ran into his son a few weeks ago. Still does not use oil at 8-10K miles on an oil change (lot of highway miles), still well over 30 MPG in all uses, and no other issues.
BUT: the stories about the post 7.3 diesels are numerous. I would not have one. Period. They break a lot and are a beast to work on.

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NHI, 10-8.

I have a 2500HD with Duramax/Allison combo. 105,000 miles and the only problem has been with the Exhaust system... I blame the Government/EPA. Other than that the truck is a beast!

I've got an 02 super duty with the v-10 and 170k miles.Only trouble happened a few weeks ago when it blew a plug out of that aluminum head.Other than that, it's been great.

1999 F-250 (5.4L gas motor, built in Ky.) 269,000 miles and one of those pesky connecting rods caused an oil leak in the block.

2006 F-350 Dually (6.0 Diesel, built in Ky.) 121,000 miles and it's a pulling machine.

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James L. "Jim" Rhiner

We have a total of 6 of the 5.4 Triton motors in our medium duty F250's and one F150. 2 have better than 140k on them, no issues. The F150 has just under 80k, no issues.
The other 3 seized the crank, each one...... in the 85-105k range. We are 50-50 on them. I like the 5.4, other than the crank seizing, they tend to be decent running motors. They have the same issues with O2 sensors, and lean injectors that almost all the V8 motors in trucks tend to see; a function of squeezing a motor to meet the EPA goals.

Watch that 6.0........ If you start losing coolant, the EGR is leaking, it's a 99.5% certainty for that. It's not too difficult a fix to get a bulletproof EGR installed. Better than factory.

These trucks frustrate me, primarily because we have several 1988-1990 7.3L, non-turbo trucks. And you could put marbles in the motor oil, and they would still run. Slow, but so very dependable. It's a shame how far the more modern Ford trucks have come with regards to chassis ride, brakes, lighting, etc. and yet the motor, of all things is prone to very expensive breaks, and very expensive regular service.

For reference, my 2005/ 2006 Dodge has 225k on it.
I changed the water pump, hoses, and the batteries. Water pump took an hour and a half. The hoses took longer to swap out.
I can't say how long it would take to get to the water pump on the 6.0- but I can guarantee that it will take more than 1hr. to get it out and on the ground.

In defense of the blue oval, I had 2 rangers; a 1985 with the miracle 2.3L motor, and the 2.9v6 in a 1988. The 2.3 was a spectacular piece of engineering; a small pickup truck which was fairly quick, and yet delivered an astounding 28MPG. The truck carried me for many years, and died with 230k on the ticker. That was a great, great truck. I do miss it!

Hey, this is my story...

My 7.3 just hit 196,9xx. The 7.3 is truly a hall of fame engine.

I'm keeping my 7.3 for a long time.

A guy I worked with bought a new F-250 with the 6.0. He was blowing how his new truck was better than mine, this was before we knew what the exploder the 6.0 was.

I kept telling him my 4 year old truck was better than his new one. I said I have proof, finally he bet me lunch. All I had to do to collect lunch was say, mine is better because I made the last payment 3 months ago. Then he started having issues. He no longer has it.

rojodiablo is right on when it comes the the Ford 6.0 diesel, there a piece of junk! I bought one new in 2004; the turbo was replaced three times and subequently "cleaned" twice, the engine pulled to fix oil leak, fuel pressure regulator replaced and only 80,000 miles. I deleated the EGR sytem to aviod the common failure of the EGR system. After having Ford trucks and cars for over 30 years I will never buy another Ford product.

orbruce

Having turned wrenches for a little over 40 years I can tell ya that nothing is worth a damn these days. Between EPA, cost cutting and engineers that are trying to prove how smart they are , no company really builds a good truck any more.
Our fleet has around 60-70 trucks in it. Probably 90% of them are Fords. All sizes from F150s up to F550s. Why Fords? Because nothing else even comes close to holding up as well. We've tried Chevy and Dodge. But when it comes to working for a living, they just can't cut it.
Now I do like the Cummins diesel that Dodge uses. Darn good engine. Its a real shame that the truck around it is a piece of junk. They just won't hold together.
Even worse is that it takes forever to get parts for the things. Dodge is very restrictive about aftermarket parts and the dealers don't stock squat. Generally takes a week or more to get something as simple as a door handle. God help you if you need something really important.

Now it may seem that I'm a Ford lover. But not so much anymore. The F150 with a 4.6 is still a great truck. My personal truck is a 2003 and I have no intentions of getting rid of it.
The problem is the bigger diesel powered stuff. The cab and chassis are still just fine. But when Ford dropped the 7.3 (thank you EPA ) their engines went to hell in a handbasket. The 6.0 and 6.4 are both major PITAs. Once again we're back to the real problems being the EPA, executives who don't have a clue and engineers. Frankly, I wouldn't have one of them.
My own work truck is a 1995 F-477 with a 7.3 in it and is set up as a lube truck. Its got tool boxes, tanks and pumps for diesel, hydraulic oil, coolant, gear oil and grease. Plus an air compressor, torch and welder. It weighs in at 14,000+ and works hard every day. I've never even had a valve cover off of it. Nope, thay don't make 'em like that anymore.
A couple fo months ago the boss came to me asking input for specing out a new lube truck. I told him that if he can get a new truck, that would be fine. But I'm gonna ride out my remaining days in this old hoss.

Oh well, in about 7 months I'm gonna retire. I'm gonna put my tool box in the garage and every now and then I'll go out there just to watch it rust and smile.