Fort Hood Shooter Still Getting Paid

[Wyatt Burp]

The guy who murdered all those soldiers at Ft. Hood has been paid over 200 grand since his rampage, and still is, while the victims, those who managed to survive, anyway, are trying to get combat related pay for their wounds. but they can't, it seems, because someone decided to call this a simple act of "workplace violence" and not terrorism, even though the shooter was yelling "ALLAHA ACKBARRR!!!" while shooting them. Work place violence can then be attributed to the supposedly "easy access to guns".

[HankG]

Clowns to the left of us, Jokers to the right...here we are stuck in the middle of 21st century United States. Strange days my friends!

[Stephanie B]

"Loss of all pay and allowances" is part of the sentencing order at a court-martial. Until then, Major Hassan remains a major in rank and he gets his pay.

Not to gripe too much, but jeez, guys! Doesn't the rest of the Constitution matter?

[mg357]

I would post what I honestly think about this situation but I would be banned for life if I did that

[Hillbilly77]

Originally Posted by mg357

I would post what I honestly think about this situation but I would be banned for life if I did that

Yes. Me too.

Gonna go look for some dog pictures or something now...

[feralmerril]

This really makes some of us old timers feel good. Many of us with mudane low pay jobs didnt make much more than that in our lifetime and faihfully paid taxs on it. There is no common sense in this country. Along with the OP, how much was spent bringing those brothers over to bomb the boston marathon? The ball was dropped legaly when they went back to their country to visit and then turn around and come here again under the guise of political asylum. Lets see. They got welfare, free medical, education, hud houseing etc. They were here because they were in fear of their lives in their home country yet go back there to vacation and yet come back here again?

[Wyatt Burp]

Originally Posted by Hillbilly77

Yes. Me too.

Gonna go look for some dog pictures or something now...

Yeah. I think I was taking a chance on this one. but I'm going over to the Spatula Forum to get my mind off all this.

[3dots]

Makes me sick! If it were up to me, he would have been executed on the spot.What's wrong with this country? These monsters have no rights and deserve no due process....unbelievable!

[feralmerril]

Oh! For the better good I admit they should get due process alright. But in these cases of overwhelming evidence and 0 possible sane doubt, why should it take years and years to get a trial? I have a ex brother in law in jail (mental institution for criminal insane) for murder. My last contact was about in 1983. My ex MIL was instructing my ex on how to handle his affairs when something happened to her. At THAT time he had like $55,000s saved up for him in a account for soc. sec. disability! Legal? Yes. Moral and sensable? HELL NO! He has cost the system a couple uncountable million so far, still could live another 30 years and STILL gets his disability payments. Just who IS insane here?

[Mcwsky09]

Originally Posted by Stephanie B

"Loss of all pay and allowances" is part of the sentencing order at a court-martial. Until then, Major Hassan remains a major in rank and he gets his pay.

Not to gripe too much, but jeez, guys! Doesn't the rest of the Constitution matter?

Do you truly need a jury trial in cases where there is no doubt in a case? Not saying I know enough about this one, and I suppose if there were ways to skip some of the due process because there is no doubt that might lead to cases where doubt is artificially removed to railroad someone. But I still wonder in cases where the bad guy is apprehended with the gun in his hand and there is video tape or dozens of witnesses etc why do we need to have a trial?

Even in a case where a guy who abducted, raped, and killed, and plead guilty saying that he would do it again if he ever got out and that the best thing to do would be to just execute him and save everyone the trouble - got some lawyer who was not related to the case in any way shape or form - to file a motion that by entering a guilty plea the guys lawyer was not acting in his best interest - and as far as I know the guy is still sitting in prison decades later.

[sigp220.45]

He gets paid until he's convicted. Its been that way for as long as I know. Why would they change the rules for this worm?

Everyone has a right to a trial. If you believe in the Constitution, you should believe in that.

[M29since14]

Originally Posted by Stephanie B

"Loss of all pay and allowances" is part of the sentencing order at a court-martial. Until then, Major Hassan remains a major in rank and he gets his pay.

Not to gripe too much, but jeez, guys! Doesn't the rest of the Constitution matter?

Out in the real world, if you are not productively employed doing something generally you aren't getting paid a nickel. If you have only worked for the U.S. government and are not familiar with that potentially unpleasant but very real concept, I understand. And yes, to many of us, the U.S. Constitution matters a great deal.

Here's how it works on the other side of the aisle. He is sitting in a cell, under arrest, not doing a single productive thing for his employer (The United States). He isn't "earning" a thing, so we shouldn't be paying him - simple. He is not performing any of his duties and he certainly was not incapacitated in the performance of his duties. By any reasonable standard The United States doesn't/shouldn't owe him a penny. (If by some miracle he is found innocent, he could always be entitled to collect his back-pay with reasonable interest.)

Until this kind of craziness is stopped and set right the U.S. will continue on its present downward spiral toward being the world's largest banana republic. At that time, we won't need our Constitution any longer.

[Wyatt Burp]

My concept of Constitutional trials, military versus civilian, have really changed when I see the government haggling with this guy for two years just about whether he can have a beard in court or not.

[wbraswell]

I thought spies, collaborators, and infiltrators were just hanged. There's no "alleged" anything. New hemp rope, six foot drop, over, done. Sounds like a plan to me. Bury him with pigs.

[Stephanie B]

Originally Posted by M29since14

Out in the real world, if you are not productively employed doing something generally you aren't getting paid a nickel. If you have only worked for the U.S. government and are not familiar with that potentially unpleasant but very real concept, I understand. And yes, to many of us, the U.S. Constitution matters a great deal.

Here's out it works on the other side of the aisle. He is sitting in a cell, under arrest, not doing a single productive thing for his employer (The United States). He isn't "earning" a thing, so we shouldn't be paying him - simple. He is not performing any of his duties and he certainly was not incapacitated in the performance of his duties. By any reasonable standard The United States doesn't/shouldn't owe him a penny. (If by some miracle he is found innocent, he could always be entitled to collect his back-pay with reasonable interest.)

Until this kind of craziness is stopped and set right the U.S. will continue on its present downward spiral toward being the world's largest banana republic. At that time, we won't need our Constitution any longer.

let's say, for the sake of argument, that Lance Corporal Schmuckatelli is in the brig awaiting court-martial. Maybe he's in there a year or two. But when it finally comes to trial, the case against him collapses. He's acquitted.

Isn't he entitled to his pay for that time?

[Stephanie B]

Originally Posted by Mcwsky09

Do you truly need a jury trial in cases where there is no doubt in a case?

The Constitution says that you do.

More to the point of this forum, I'd suggest that we be really careful about assigning constitutional rights based on a perceived need. (Maybe you don't need to own more than three guns.)

[feralmerril]

It seems at this point in history you need to have some age on you and had been brought up prior to the mid 50s. In my view the biggest change in our country started between the korean "police action" (Hows that working for us?) and the viet nam era. (also, hows that worked for us?) It really got crazy with kent state and viet nam.
Look at it this way. A airliner makes a ditch near a nice island. By some huge qurick it is far off course and has no communication. There is 350 survivors, mostly good people. However there is 10 demon types also that survived. They wont work and help the group, steal from others their gathered food and try to sexualy assault any women that stray.
How does the main group handel them? Put them in a cage for possibly a decade untill rescued? Put needed man power to guard them? Feed them the groups dwindeling food supply? Make sure some fund of goods is put in a safe cage for them incase others prove them innocent 30 years later because there isnt many witness`s left and now it was all just heresay?
This country has about 350 million people, not just 350. Yet this country is getting close to the same shape and conditions those survivors.
The difference is sanity is bound to kick in with the survivors and I think "sane" justice will have to kick in.

[SW_shooter]

So why is it ok for an "officer" to disobey an order and not shave off his beard? Is he exempt from following orders? It's not in the constitution but I believe he swore an oath to obey orders from superiors. So what is the consequence for disobeying an order? Just a couple random thoughts or questions is all.

[3dots]

Originally Posted by sigp220.45

He gets paid until he's convicted. Its been that way for as long as I know. Why would they change the rules for this worm?

Everyone has a right to a trial. If you believe in the Constitution, you should believe in that.

He gave up his rights, all of them, when he murdered innocent people. I believe in the constitution and will fight tooth and nail for it. This type of horrific act is ungodly and falls outside of anything the constitution stands for.

[jlrhiner]

I think some of you really need to step back and look at what your saying.
WE don't summarily execute prisoners. We try them, prove them guilty, and punish them as is seen fit.
WE are innocent until proven guilty.

It seems there are an awful lot of folks out there forgetting this.

[joeintexas]

So whats the problem here...there is zero doubt about his guilt, so give him his day in court then let justice be served and send him on his way to meet those virgins. Shaved of course.

[Raider]

Originally Posted by Stephanie B

let's say, for the sake of argument, that Lance Corporal Schmuckatelli is in the brig awaiting court-martial. Maybe he's in there a year or two. But when it finally comes to trial, the case against him collapses. He's acquitted.

Isn't he entitled to his pay for that time?

Sure, if he is found innocent. Give it to him when he gets out.

In the case of Major Allah 'Murderin' Hassan, take all the money he gets and give it to the families of the people that he killed and wounded. They need money now; he doesn't. He should be forcefully shaved and given a "trainee traditional" haircut every day so he maintains his neat military appearance since he retains the rank of Major. What a laugh.

Charlie

[the ringo kid]

Originally Posted by Wyatt Burp

The guy who murdered all those soldiers at Ft. Hood has been paid over 200 grand since his rampage, and still is, while the victims, those who managed to survive, anyway, are trying to get combat related pay for their wounds. but they can't, it seems, because someone decided to call this a simple act of "workplace violence" and not terrorism, even though the shooter was yelling "ALLAHA ACKBARRR!!!" while shooting them. Work place violence can then be attributed to the supposedly "easy access to guns".

Hopefully when this beast finally goes to trial-that all the money accrued over the years will go to the victims and their families. Sadly, I don't see that happening.

[Mcwsky09]

Originally Posted by Stephanie B

The Constitution says that you do.

More to the point of this forum, I'd suggest that we be really careful about assigning constitutional rights based on a perceived need. (Maybe you don't need to own more than three guns.)

But isn't the purpose of those protections to protect the innocent or wrongly accused? If there is no doubt whatsoever why is a trial necessary? But if you read my post I think I answered my own question, in that as soon as you allow any single case where the full process is not followed then you open the door for the future possibility of cases being decided and sentences being carried out with less than due diligence and mistakes being made.

Of course many people would likely say that our legal system makes mistakes every day.

So I guess you could say the due process is not to protect the innocent but to prevent human failures to interfer with adherence to the law.

[Malpasowildlifer]

Originally Posted by mg357

I would post what I honestly think about this situation but I would be banned for life if I did that

me too.....

[feralmerril]

The law can be a ***. Yet I dont know of any country that has a better system than ours. I am not that educated but I suspect if there is one, it just might be isreal`s.
Just now on fox was a report that they ARE labeling terrorism. Someone ran amuck and beheaded a solider in england with a machete.
Also this morning was a report of a friend of that boston bomber getting in a shootout with police in florida. These events arent just coincidences.

[Wyatt Burp]

If our soldiers on the base were allowed to carry side arms and one of them shot and killed the shooter, that heroic soldier wouldn't go on trial for murder. But if the shooter survives, all the Constitutional rights we are talking about here apply. It's just interesting how by not getting killed while shooting soldiers he all of a sudden has all these rights. I'm not saying the laws and rules should change in this case, but shouldn't they also apply to a battlefield? Instead of soldiers storming the beaches of Normandy, shouldn't we have sent thousands of lawyers in suits carrying breif cases instead of M1 Garands?

[Straightshooter2]

Anybody know under what kind of conditions Sergeant Robert Bales from Joint Base Lewis-McChord who reportedly snapped and killed 16 Afghan civilians is kept. Bet he doesn't have a beard. I also find it interesting that there has been a court martial date set for Hasan, a few days from now (if not postponed again), three and a half years after his act and Bales is set for September, one and one half years after his act. Bales seems to be on a fast track for some reason. Anybody want to bet the over on who gets hanged and who's found crazy? Anybody want to explain why the U. S. Court of Appeals is even involved in determining who the trial judge is in the court martial of Hasan? Or why the new judge, has said Hasan can keep the beard in face of Army regulations. Something smells rotten and it ain't in the State of Denmark!

CW

[Foodfuzz]

He hasn't been convicted yet. It's unfortunate this mook hasn't had an unknown accident of some kind. Of course he must be accorded all of his constitutional rights with every case of unconvicted work place violence that might occur. He did have to shave, so that by it self is proof of cruel and unusual punishment. What more do you barbarians want!! Can't we all just get along? If ya can't kill the people you work with what's left?

[Sebago Son]

The 6th Amendmant of the US Constitution reads: "In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed..... and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the Assistance of Counsel for his defence"

In this case it seems that the defendant since November 5, 2009, is "enjoying" a less than speedy trial. His very existence is a mockery.

To pay him over a Quarter of a Million over nearly four years and be no closer to his execution is a travesty.

I'd like to see Hassan cash out... paid in lead.

[DeathGrip]

The Army should bust him on a lesser charge resulting in an article 15.

Private E1 pay.

[feralmerril]

The best key thing here would be they were killed while resisting arrest. No huge money spent on trials or cost of keeping them in a petting zoo. Once the ball opens there should be no option of hey out there, kemo sabie, I change my errant mind, please dont shoot me! The powers that were, when I went through firearms training phase for my humble job almost 50 years ago, was if a shooter shot at me and then thought it was a bad idea, turned his back and tried to get away I now couldnt shoot as he is no longer a threat. I have a bad memory if things ever get that exciteing and never owned a white hat.

[Sebago Son]

Originally Posted by DeathGrip

The Army should bust him on a lesser charge resulting in an article 15.

Private E1 pay.

I like the way you think DG...

[BlueOvalBandit]

Originally Posted by DeathGrip

The Army should bust him on a lesser charge resulting in an article 15.

Private E1 pay.

Unfortunately it doesn't work that way for officers, their punishment is very different from enlisted.

[ChattanoogaPhil]

He gets paid until he's convicted. Its been that way for as long as I know. Why would they change the rules for this worm?

Everyone has a right to a trial. If you believe in the Constitution, you should believe in that.

A trial, yes. A Constitutional right to a paycheck while in jail, no.

Change the rules? Sure. When a rule is found to be terribly flawed it should be changed. It's a disgrace to the victims, their families and this American tax payer. It's apparently seen as a disgrace to many bankers as well. For a period of time no banks could be found that would accept deposits from this guy. According to a military spokesman, that problem was eventually resolved.

Watched this vid clip indicating that the money is available to Hasan and his family (6minutes in). Wonder where that money ends up? How many pressure cookers does $278,000 buy? Anyone keeping an eye on this? I would hope so.


Accused Fort Hood Shooter Paid $278,000 While Awaiting Trial | NBC 5 Dallas-Fort Worth

[M29since14]

Originally Posted by ChattanoogaPhil

A trial, yes. A Constitutional right to a paycheck while in jail, no.

Change the rules? Sure. When a rule is found to be terribly flawed it should be changed.

What is so hard to understand about this? Good for the banks and bankers who declined to cash his checks.

[jaykellogg]

I would be more upset over this if they let him out of jail from time to time to spend the money.

I understand there is a flap over his beard and the judge had considered having him forcibly shaved. I would do it with a weed eater. Actually I don't see why they can't court martial him on the beard issue.

He is getting legal defense at taxpayers expense.

[wbraswell]

Isn't military justice in a war setting different than the civilian criminal justice system? It seems you have more rights when dealing with the Justice dept. as opposed to the Treasury dept. That's IRS, BATFE, Secret Service, and game wardens, for those unaware.

[M29since14]

Originally Posted by jaykellogg

Actually I don't see why they can't court martial him on the beard issue.

As has been alluded to in post nr. 28, the U.S. government is playing themselves like a fine violin, not just a fiddle, because they are scared-to-paralysis of what (I won't use the word "who") he is. That's their fault for not having the courage to handle him like any other captured terrorist-murderer who doesn't happen to associate themselves with the Muslim faith.

This whole matter should have been over and done with years ago. The U.S. government has made such a mess of it I'd say it's a shame he can't be turned over to the State of Texas!

I had better shut up now before I head down the path Mg357 mentioned.

[Stephanie B]

Originally Posted by ChattanoogaPhil

A trial, yes. A Constitutional right to a paycheck while in jail, no.

Change the rules? Sure.

Then get the rule changed. For now, he is an active-duty Army major and he gets paid for being that.

(And, as far as I know, nothing stops the victims and their families from suing that guy.)

[BlueOvalBandit]

Who's to say the Army wont go back after the conviction and take everything he was paid since the attack? They go after guys enlistment bonuses if they fail to complete their terms.

[Foodfuzz]

Major Hassan cold bloodedly shot and killed thirteen soldiers and wounded thirty two more in a blatant act of terrorism. For some strange reason what he did wasn't classified as an act of terrorism, but, an act of workplace violence. He was then allowed to grow a beard arguing religious reason for the facial hair. Apparently, he was still in the Army while growing a beard and collecting a paycheck. Yet, we diddled around deciding whether this would be allowed or if it would violate his rights. Why was he allowed to step out of regulations for this? Even though he shaved would this have been allowed for anyone else? Why waste time on this issue? Nothing listed in the Constitution about growing a beard.

Somehow I have the feeling Hassan is going to be allowed more political considerations as his trial slowly drags on. We now have politics added to the menu and the Constitution has not been followed too closely lately for those that have been paying attention. I fear some people will continue to turn circles trying to tie a nice pink legal ribbon on what he did while somehow believing it is possible to polish a ****. There is no question that he did this crime and he should have been flushed a long time ago.

[HayesGreener]

I was a military investigator for many years and participated in many courts martial. I question why he was not treated as an enemy combatant but that's the decision that was made back then and we can't go back. Once the government decided to treat Hassan as a criminal rather than as an enemy combatant, all the rules in the Uniform Code of Military Justice apply. One thing for certain is that there is nowhere on earth that your right to due process of law is more fiercely guarded than in the military justice process. Whether the crime is Private Snuffy stealing equipment, or a mass murderer, the rules remain the same and you can't change them because of the nature of the crime or who he is. Speedy trial is an absolute unless of course the delay is due to the defense, in which case the government is not on the speedy trial clock. The amount of evidence is monumental and the list of witnesses will be a mile long. The government will want to impose the ultimate penalty for these crimes, and there is a bevy of military lawyers who are ensuring that every T is crossed and every I is dotted. His defense is using every trick in the book as well. Forfeiture of all pay and allowances is one of the penalties available to the military court but you need to convict him to get there. Administratively discharging him is one way to stop the pay, but then you just have to order him back to active duty to confine him and for court martial so what's the point? As an aside, one of the problems they are confronted with is that he is entitled to a trial by his peers who are theoretically impartial. Seating a jury on that base would be next impossible in the near aftermath of the shootings-after enough time is passed everyone transfers and you end up with a jury made up of people who were not there when it happened which is a good thing. It's not unusual for a case of this magnitude to go on for a long time, albeit this one has gone on longer than most. I am confident that he will be convicted and that the punishment will be severe, but the worst possible outcome would be for a conviction to be overturned by the Court of Military Appeals due to a procedural mistake.

[feralmerril]

I love it when the stock answer is always well, get the law changed! Like shurrrre we can. Once in a eon and the stars all aline and some person does get elected that might somehow get a new law. This just dont happen with 99.9999 percent of us peons.

[Stephanie B]

Originally Posted by feralmerril

I love it when the stock answer is always well, get the law changed! Like shurrrre we can. Once in a eon and the stars all aline and some person does get elected that might somehow get a new law. This just dont happen with 99.9999 percent of us peons.

Everyone here has got a computer and likely a printer, paper, envelopes and stamps. Petitioning your representative is a Constitutionally-guaranteed right. Persuade people to write in protest, for congressmen get impressed by full mailbags. People who write tend to be people who vote. Congressmen who ignore people who vote run the risk of losing their phoney-baloney jobs, and they know that.

But hey, if all you want to do is gripe on an Internet forum, I get that.

[feralmerril]

What laws have you changed?

[wbraswell]

HayesGreener is right. Hassan is a spy, infiltrator, collaborator, and traitor. There should have been nothing but a court martial tribunal. It should have taken no longer than whatever became of the infiltrators during the Battle of the Bulge.

[Foodfuzz]

Oh, without a doubt if the victims of the Hassan shooting sued him they would be duly be compensated. Just as I am sure of the tooth fairy, I am sure they would be awarded just compensation. (Sigh) If the government can't honestly define what occurred in the Hassan shooting I do not have any faith that they will come to an equitable conclusion in this case. After all, if you won't even recognize your enemy due to political correctness or come to terms with what he is trying to do, how can you defeat him? Sometimes political correctness will get you killed. The Constitution does not require you to join a suicide pact to make others feel good. Excuse me now, I'm going to go can some green beans in my pressure cooker.

[gm272gs]

Resurrecting old thread because it has happened again at Fort Hood.

An Army specialist shot and killed three, before offing himself.
He obviously screwed up the order of that.

[RonJ]

Will his family get his insurance?