My Dad serving in WWII, had a hero, loved his attitude and was proud to serve under him..Germany was a tough nut to crack..
A quote attributed to the General Patton was ..

"Lead me, follow me, or get out of my way. "

Do you consider yourself a leader or a follower ? Not necessarily military, but even in civilian life at work..

Me always a leader...You ?

It sounds a little self serving but I'd call myself a leader based on my LEO career (retired patrol division captain) and I'm currently the president of our local retired police association. At home though I do what my wife tells me to . . . .

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Old Cop
LEO (Ret.)

I worked for a public utility for 38 years. I learned early in my career to get out of the way. Let some Stupidvisor lead & make a fool of himself.

Well, since the general "borrowed" it from Thomas Paine, I guess he was a follower.

Both.......

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God spelled backwards is dog.

I don't need to be led and I don't want anyone following me.

I dont fit either. I never was a "group" style person to choose. I stayed a lowly guard of a large outfit for 35 years. I am pretty sure in that time I could have been a captain or possibly even chief but never went for it. I never learned the computer thing (until I neared retirement) as I didnt want to get roped to the radio room. Early on I was a OT hog and usually made more than my betters, but my job was my home. I had the most whiskers for a long time as I was there 35 years. For much of that time I was there when the future captains hired in and knew where all the bodys was buried. I NEVER called them for their guidance. Therefore I done things my way and was left totally alone. One other thing, I took every post assigned without question, all overtime asked and never requested a favor or easy post. I would have to say I pretty much floated through my career.
Before the guard jobs I was a foreman for a utility pole treating company for about 3 years. I did my own hiring, etc. Pretty soon I also was the one that the new foremen were sent to be be trained. So I started out as a boss, think I was good at it, didnt like it, quit and found my nitch as a peon. Long as I went this far I will tell of a incident that caused me to leave that company as a boss. The job was a man killer. Very hard labor for meager wages for the men I hired. People above me would get contracts and I was sent to work them. One guy made a bad estimate of what it took to do a job in california. The company sent me out to do the contract. I met the area supervisor to look the job over and told him that in that terrain and inaccessibility I couldnt make the job pay for the company. He said, we just want you to do a good job as this is going to be a model so we can win all the contracts here in the west. Some time later he came out and complained I wasnt getting enough poles done and suggested I fire someone. I said for what? We are killing ourselves. He said well, it will make your other workers work harder. Thats when I decided to part company.

I wont follow any Man.I'll walk side by side with you but never behind.You may know something that I don't but I'll never learn it by standing blindly behind you.

There are three kind's of people , place your self where you fit in.
The first kind makes things happen.
The next watches things happen
Third kind wonders what in the hell happened . OldSeabee

Don't know, don't care...................just don't mess with me.

Man, do I feel your pain on the last portion of your post..
After the military I went to work for a construction general contractor, building large concrete structures, i.e. high rise buildings..
As a foreman at the time, the company was introducing college grads, trying to give them a try in the field..Dumber than a rock..I was told to get rid of one of my carpenters in order for him to fulfill the spot..X bracing on a concrete structure for a soon to be placed concrete slab is not for rookies..Expertise is paramount for safety..I threw my hardhat down and walked away..The CEO of the company called me on the phone a few days later wondering why I was not at work..My response? "This is dangerous work, not a place to put me and other lives at risk"..He still didn't get it, plus I had a better job I was starting the following week..
Never looked back..

Hmmm....what if you're leading in your own path but following your aspirations? Ok, I know. There's one in every crowd.

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Rather be outdoors

Why not make your own path ? Path to me means it is a before travelled area..
I get your drift , somewhat..Too cerebral for me...

Depends, sometimes I know when to get out of the way...

If asked to lead, I lead. But I mainly do my own thing. I never been a follower. I can be a team player when we all have the same goals. When it's time to motivate the troops I can do that too. Failure is not an option. I never delegated a job to someone else that I couldn't do myself. I had all talented guys working for me.

My only downfall was as a group leader I refuse to sit at my desk. I just couldn't give up being in the trenches with the men with my hands dirty just like them. I was told to seperate myself from the workers now that I'm in charge.

I have always been a bit of a leader, but I'm not afraid to follow and learn from others.

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paws for friendship

Had my own business for 25 years,so I was a leader then.Currently a wanderer and baffling everyone that knows me.Kind of fun

Ferel, you hit the nail right on the head. I've been through similar with employers/ clients over the years. You can figure out what ultimately happened with them and with me by my moniker "The Last Standing Knight." I take to heart one fact in a service (or any other) industry: if your boss tells you your morals or your ethics are too high to work at a particular company...they are probably right.

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The Last Standing Knight

Hmm, let's see. I'm at that gimpy, my meds have worn off part of the day. We don't have a/c so we open the bedroom window and turn a fan on to blow the cool evening air into the room. Our windows require both hands to open and since I only have one hand that still works right, I need my wife's help.
I asked my wife "is the bedroom window open and is the fan on?"
She replies, "not yet."
"Well why not?"
Her answer was to stand up, turn around and fart at me.
She did open the window though.

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Keep on Chooglin'

I've been a leader and a follower. I have never been afraid to make decisions and lead. What I can't abide is higher ups interfering and second guessing. Worst is when they screw over your people and the poor souls think you can do something about it.

I was always a pretty lousy follower but by the time I reached my late 50s I had decided to just follow and make the best of it. Walked out the door at 65 and never looked back.

As a retiree, I'm basically a loner.

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Bob.
SWCA 1821

I thought I was a leader until I started following this thread with all the other followers.

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Thirty characters. Exactly...

I'm an outrider. Moving parallel to the line of march, keeping an eye on things and watching for allosaurs.

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Oh well, what the hell.

I'm a loner.

"A leader is best when people barely know he exists, when his work is done, his aim fulfilled, they will say: we did it ourselves."

Lao Tzu

"A cowardly leader is the most dangerous of men." Stephen King

I do what ever the little voice in my wifes' head says to do.

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A closed mouth gathers no foot

What day is it?

I have been both. I became and NCO and was a leader. I lead my example there was not a job I didn't do, couldn't do or didn't expect the troops working on my team to do. When I said to do something it was not open for debate. I was willing to listen to suggestion but made final decisions.

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Carpriver.

I guess I'm neither. I am pretty much a loner and prefer to blaze my own trail. I absolutely am not a follower but I don't care to be a leader either, although I seem to be thrust into that position from time to time!

I have been a leader on and off the job.
Also I have enough sense to follow when someone else has more experience.
But when working with equals/peers I go off and work by myself since I'm pretty much a loner. I'm paid to work and not talk about stupid stuff.

I've been both in my life. We had a shortage of SSgts when I was an E-4 Buck Sgt and I was made a crew chief and did pretty well in it. Later in life I managed a small service company and made lots of money for the owner.
Ran into one of the guys there I used to manage and he told me I was the best boss he ever had so did something right then.
After that I started working for a superstore as a refrigeration mechanic and think I was a good follower. My management experience helped me to know what my boss wanted and I took little supervision. My plan was to get into management there but they eliminated most middle managers.
I'm more a loner too and get along well just doing my thing without a lot of outside interference but do get a lot of direction from my wife now I'm retired as she always has a list going for me on what needs to be done.

I am a loner.
If someone wants to follow me, ok, but I didn`t ask him to.
If I see someone better than me, I am happy to follow his lead.
At almost 70 years of age I no longer have anything to prove to anyone.
Mostly I just like to go my own way.

I doubt if a gorgeous big busted blonde in a bikini walked up to any of us on the beach and said "follow me", we would tell her "no way, we're leaders."

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Thirty characters. Exactly...

Whatever out takes to get things done. Motivating by doing is being a leader even if it means doing the work. Of someone is leading, I let them.
Business owner and single dad.

I was selected for a Leadership Course taught for the Federal Govt. One of 24 (out of 500 applicants) for the second year of what is now an annual class. This was a LEADERSHIP class, not supervision, although most of us did become supervisors.

One of our first tasks was to define leadership: We said leadership was a personality trait. Supervision is a job description.

We have all had bosses who were not leaders. And we all know leaders who are not and will not be supervisors.

(After 5 years as a supervisor, I resigned as a Branch Chief)

I obstruct!

Leave me alone, I can take care of myself.

BS counts for most if not all leadership. If I am wrong, how can you possibly explain this countrys top "leadership".
I do respect people that work for themselves and have built up their own business`s. I have never even tried that. Most of us end up on jobs that had the benifits of health insurance, 401 k`s, vacation perks etc and walked a low profile not wanting to rock the boat and finding our nitch. Anyway that described me.
To "lead" I believe a person first has to be more egotistical than most of us plus a line of BS and agressivness is a must.
In all cases undoubtedly there are always on every job the quiet non aggressive veteran`s under the "chosen" that know and could do the job far better but are satisfied with the slightly less pay and benifits and not driven by ego to climb to the top.
My dad was from a huge family. All but the youngest never seen college or even high school. Dad quit in thrid grade. His brother got to sixth. Dad and the brother were almost identical looking, mannerisms etc. Dad was very quiet and the tall silent type that worked at not intimidating people due to his size and physical bearing. My uncle was a little different. He was ambitious. With his 6th grade education he pushed his way to the top and ran a very large company. I noticed once in awhile my uncle would come over and try to get advice from dad on some very high decisions he was faced with. That told me a lot about both of them.

How about the Warm and Fussy poster of years gone by?
Sniff, sniff


This one is more appropriate,

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Still Running Against the Wind

Always a VERY tough row to hoe in this world, but some of us have at least tried to do our best.

One of my acquiantences whom I esteem highly has a family motto, "Cannot lead and will not follow." Human nature being what it is, accepting that true leaders are rare and their numbers seem split in such fashion that they overwhelmingly have favored destruction rather than construction, that motto covers it fairly well for most folks.

I must say while my bosses would say a certain job couldn't be done without asking me first they would look stupid after the meeting was over and I said I could do it. They had no clue or understanding how things work but they did know the product line. I came in with the hands on experience on how to build things. I'm the GO to guy.

On another job building machines the machine shop they forgot to drill two 1 1/2" holes with a 3" counter bore or sweep so they could mount two sensors for the Chuck position on a vertical turret lathe for doing an X pattern for oil grooves on a large shaft. After watching them walk around my watching as I'm starting to build it for days scratching there heads on how to do it they finally asked me. I told them I needed two guys to help me. Four hours later it was all done by hand. I drilled two 1 1/2" holes through 2" of cast iron. With a 3" sweep that was perfectly square and parallel to the spindle that supports the Chuck. I was always the GO to guy on all my jobs.

It's not a matter of who's the leader or follower it's getting the job done as a team. Where all in the same boat. I did what I had to do.

On my last job as the lead tech I had cookouts(picnics) for my guys. Which the idea spread throughout the different departments in the engineering building. It was $5 and all you could eat. I purchased all top grade burgers and dogs. It's a way of saying thanks and to promote bonding between the different departments. This caught on so fast the whole north American world headquarters was doing it.
We had a cookout before every holiday.

If we got noticed for a certain project I bought pizza to thank everyone. I took the men out for lunch one on one and as a group to talk. I feel if we have good workers they should know we appreciate them.

When I was sent out in the field working with a field crew I would buy breakfast and lunch sometimes. These guys were shocked I did that. They were right on time with the work we needed done. One Friday I made hotdogs cooked with beer and kraut.

If your going to be a leader treat your workers right. There's no "I" in team.
The work place should be a fun place. We spend more time working together than we do with our families.

"The first myth of management--is that it exists."

I'm kind of a John Boyd fan, myself.

I remember my uncle telling me he worked at every job on the line learn it to become the boss of the factory.

Years ago at work there was a funny cartoon on a bulletin board. It showed a instructor of the company management class pointing out the difference between a "Butt" and a hole in the ground.

To be a good leader you must have followed before. That's my opinion. Yes, there are "born leaders" which is good, but still, that doesn't make you neither good nor experienced.

So called leaders that don't know 5h!T aren't good leaders and will probably end up dead sooner than later, incl. their squad.

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Jorge

You left one out, I'm a Loner.

I think the quote I attributed to General Patton, was more a poop or get off the pot. Don't stand there waiting undecided..Lead or follow, just don't get in my way..He would have loved Black Friday at WalMart..

I'm a follower, of Jesus Christ

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Retired Career Security Guard

As far as I can tell.........Leading is taking responsibility for outcomes.

The how is by any means necessary.

But always take care of your people...............

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I Love This Site

I have never seen that particular phrase or one like it attributed to Gen. Patton. He did have a similar saying which he must have been fond of. I cannot recall exactly when and where I have read that he used it and it was noted publicly. He probably used it often enough that those around him accepted it as "routine."

"DO SOMETHING! - even if it is wrong!"

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The Official Website of General George Patton - Quotes