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08-29-2014, 07:29 PM
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Are grenades lethal?
apparantly not:
Colt 6920 Rifle with the MOE vertical grip (MVG), MOE hand guard, Magpul MBUS rear sight, MOE-K hand grip, MOE trigger guard, MOE stock and one 9-round magazine. Designed specifically for lightweight mobility, speed of target acquisition, and potent firepower capability - the Colt® Law Enforcement Carbine delivers. This specially designed law enforcement weapon system features many of the combat proven advantages of the military Colt M4. With the 4-position butt stock fully retracted, the Colt Law Enforcement Carbine is less than 30.5 in (77.5 cm) in length and weighs only 6.8 lb (3.08 kg) - ideal for tactical deployment and traditional patrol. Colt's Law Enforcement Carbine is available with a step-cut barrel that allows it to accept a grenade launcher for non-lethal options.
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08-29-2014, 07:34 PM
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Various types of grenade's I reckon.
I suspect they mean Tear gas canisters and such...
Last edited by Xfuzz; 08-29-2014 at 07:38 PM.
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08-29-2014, 07:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xfuzz
Various types of grenade's I reckon.
I suspect they mean Tear gas canisters and such...
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There are also 37 mm and 40 mm rubber bullets and bean bag projectiles
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08-29-2014, 07:56 PM
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The 203 Grenade launcher was my favorite. The CTG choices were cool. I loved the air flairs, Total game changer when night vision goggles were around.
Are they deadly?
Close enough only counts in horse shoes and hand grenades.
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08-29-2014, 08:00 PM
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Anyone remember the old M79 Thumper?
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08-29-2014, 09:21 PM
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I used to be an awesome shot with old 40 MM, M79. The m203 was handy mainly because it worked well in conjunction with the M-16, but the M79 was my favorite.
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08-29-2014, 09:44 PM
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Some of the best fun the RVN had was the M79. Some guys could put it in your pocket first shot!
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08-29-2014, 09:59 PM
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Nerf grenades for PC?
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08-29-2014, 10:00 PM
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"Say hello to my little friend."
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08-29-2014, 10:15 PM
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Grenade launchers don't kill people, people kill people......
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08-29-2014, 11:02 PM
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Thump...........BOOM. Yep, deadly.
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08-29-2014, 11:10 PM
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That little weapon cost me rank and a months pay. Papa San got kinda upset when I dropped an HE round on the buffalo he was plowing a field with. I thought it was a mighty fine shot off the back of a moving deuce and a half going thirty miles an hour. My Commanding officer didn't find any humor in it at all. Go figure.
DW
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08-30-2014, 12:10 AM
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Where in Hell did they ever get the idea a grenade wasn't lethal?Gong back to my old Infantry days [50's]they sure were.
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08-30-2014, 05:47 AM
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Based on a lot of the shooting I've seen at the range lately I'm not too sure the AR platform is all that lethal in most peoples hands.
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08-30-2014, 08:37 AM
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They've gotta market the feature somehow.
Fires HE grenade with 5m kill and 130m casualty radius doesn't sound quite so nice for LE use.
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08-30-2014, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muss Muggins
There are also 37 mm and 40 mm rubber bullets and bean bag projectiles
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...which if misused can kill somebody as dead as a 69gr. BTHP.
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08-30-2014, 09:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmort666
...which if misused can kill somebody as dead as a 69gr. BTHP.
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I agree. The new politically correct term is "less lethal."
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08-30-2014, 10:03 AM
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There are quite a few different types of grenades. Some are deployed by hand. Some are fired from a launcher. Some are fragmentation devices (multiple pieces of shrapnel propelled outward by explosive device). Some produce smoke. Some deploy chemical irritants (CS, CN, etc). Some are incendiary devices (white phosporous, thermite, etc). Some produce concussive effects without significant sharpnel, etc. Some use a timed fuse device. Some are impact detonating.
Something for everyone, I suppose. Some can be lethal. Some aren't necessarily so.
The M79 grenade launcher was widely used in Vietnam. Single-shot, break open action, just like a shotgun. Primary ammunition was a 40mm HE grenade, launched by compressed gas (unique sound when fired, kind of like dropping a brick into a steel drum, "THUNK"), a skilled man could place accurate fire out to about 300 yards or so, 5-meter bursting radius. The grenade armed after a certain number of revolutions (about 25 or 30 meters as I recall) after leaving the rifled barrel.
Another type was popular on patrols and perimeter defense, and that was the "cannister" round, basically a big old shotgun shell loaded with steel "buckshot", very effective out to about 50 yards, but the recoil was absolutely wicked.
There were also CS tear gas grenades (but I don't recall ever seeing those in Vietnam) and smoke grenades that could be used for signalling or marking positions (such as when directing an airstrike).
We called them "thumpers" or "bloopers". Basically just a little hand-held mortar.
The M203 (40 mm grenade launcher mounted under the barrel of the M16 rifle) was just coming into service when I left Vietnam. Same ammunition and general capabilities as the M79. I had no real experience with them.
Last edited by LoboGunLeather; 08-30-2014 at 03:15 PM.
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08-30-2014, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muss Muggins
I agree. The new politically correct term is "less lethal."
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In this case, I don't consider it "politically correct", merely factually accurate.
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08-30-2014, 11:12 AM
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deadly only when used as horse shoes.
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08-30-2014, 11:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmort666
In this case, I don't consider it "politically correct", merely factually accurate.
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Fair enough . . .
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08-30-2014, 01:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Muss Muggins
I agree. The new politically correct term is "less lethal."
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Isn't "less lethal" kind of like "less pregnant"?
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08-30-2014, 05:34 PM
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I was the designated marksman/gunner and grenade operator on a boat in Vietnam. When it was our turn for concussion grenades and flares during alert I was issued an M79 and a couple of cases of assorted flares and concussion grenades. During an alert we always kept a white flare in the air and at 15 minute intervals threw concussion grenades over the side. I was really good at getting a flare to land on just about anything within range. I was bragging about my ability and said that I bet 20 bucks I could drop a flare onto the deck of a Korean ammo barge that sat a good 300 meters astern our boat. One of the guys called my bluff and was disappointed when my flare landed right where I called it, we all got a good laugh watching the little ROK Marine cussing and kicking the flare off the deck into the water. I have no doubts that the guys that used the M79 in the field for fire support could do the same with HE rounds and have heard stories about guys that actually used the HE round as a bullet to stop a guy while being overrun, the results were devastating to say the least.
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08-30-2014, 05:45 PM
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Are grenades lethal?
Well, maybe not your run of the mill ones, but I carry a Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch with me wherever I go. Just the thing for crowd control or rogue rabbits!
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Last edited by timn8er; 08-30-2014 at 05:46 PM.
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08-30-2014, 06:59 PM
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Grenade launchers don't kill people - Concussion and shrapnel kills people
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08-30-2014, 06:59 PM
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I've fired the 79 and 203, Lobo...you sure about that compressed air thing?
If so, I never knew that! Always thought it was a reduced charge of powder.
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08-30-2014, 07:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timn8er
Well, maybe not your run of the mill ones, but I carry a Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch with me wherever I go. Just the thing for crowd control or rogue rabbits!
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"Five is right out."
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08-31-2014, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jessie
I've fired the 79 and 203, Lobo...you sure about that compressed air thing?
If so, I never knew that! Always thought it was a reduced charge of powder.
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Yup. Primer and small charge to create enough overpressure allowing the projectile to leave the case and the compressed gas expanding did the rest of the work.
Cannister rounds used a powder charge.
Recoil with either type was fierce! Even with the best technique a half-dozen rounds left me with a seriously bruised shoulder. I've seen guys fire the M79 with the butt held against the thigh, and that could leave a man limping the rest of the day.
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08-31-2014, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoboGunLeather
Yup. Primer and small charge to create enough overpressure allowing the projectile to leave the case and the compressed gas expanding did the rest of the work.
Cannister rounds used a powder charge.
Recoil with either type was fierce! Even with the best technique a half-dozen rounds left me with a seriously bruised shoulder. I've seen guys fire the M79 with the butt held against the thigh, and that could leave a man limping the rest of the day.
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Oh, ok. I guess they all could be called 'compressed' air in a manner of speaking.
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08-31-2014, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoboGunLeather
Yup. Primer and small charge to create enough overpressure allowing the projectile to leave the case and the compressed gas expanding did the rest of the work.
Cannister rounds used a powder charge.
Recoil with either type was fierce! Even with the best technique a half-dozen rounds left me with a seriously bruised shoulder. I've seen guys fire the M79 with the butt held against the thigh, and that could leave a man limping the rest of the day.
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All standard U.S. 40mm grenade rounds use the "high-low" principle pioneered by the WWII German anti-tank weapon, the "Puppchen".
The 40mm case has a propellant chamber and an expansion chamber. When the powder charge is ignited, it creates high pressure combustion gases. Those gases are in turn bled through holes into the expansion chamber, allowing the gas pressure to decrease, thus giving the projectile a more gentle "push", and lower recoil impulse compared to other systems, like the German "Kampfpistole" and the Soviet 40mm muzzle loading, underbarrel grenade launcher. As I recall, the latter has pretty nasty recoil.
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