Just saw this regarding the PO that shot the homeless guy camping out in the hills. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.



Albuquerque police, murder charges: Homeless man's killing leads to accusations.

They shot him in the back from a distance that he couldn't have been a threat if he wanted to....

Guys like those give real cops a bad name.

That happened very close to my part of the city, just down the road.
It's a good thing they have a video of it otherwise people would not believe it. There are so many police shootings here you can't keep track of them all without a spreadsheet. I don't know if it was murder but I don't think it was handled very well.
Short version. Man in the foothills camping where there is no camping.
Police talk to him for hours, he won't go. He agrees to go and asks cop if he will be safe. Cop says yes. Man is surrounded by at least 4 cops. Two with ARs, one K9 handler, one shotgun guy I think. Man puts two pocket knives in his front pockets. Picks up his belongings in his hands. Police throw a flashbang at him and turn the dog loose. Man freaks out over the dog, pulls his knives, gets shot by both ARs. It looked like he was going to get on the ground before the shots but it is hard to tell. Maybe 30 feet away. No way he is going to survive at that distance. Lives till the next day. Same day the police say it was getting dark so they had to end it. Man was homeless and had mental problems.
My biggest problem was the guy agreed to give up, why throw the flashbang and set the dog on him?

I have no idea as to why things like this take place.

But I don't wear a badge everyday either.

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Doesn't hasta call me Johnson

Prosecutor is going around a grand jury investigation. Judge will decide if there is enough evidence to proceed to a murder trial. Everything will be done in open court and all evidence will be made public. My guess is those cops are in a bad spot here. Poor training and bad supervision might be their only defense but the dept. isn't on trial here, the cops that did the shooting might be though. The video will damage their defense if it goes to trial.

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That's just somebody talkin.

Yup,
Sandy's mouth will likely put him on the other side of the bars....


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xZewm1dVRzI#t=80



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"IN GOD WE TRUST"

More and more it seems some law enforcement organizations either don't have a force compendium or their personnel simply ignore it.

Be safe.

We've had a number of police shootings lately, this one being the worst. There were protesters laying in the street HERE (in Albuquerque) over the Brown shooting, but not for a white homeless guy right here in our own town.

Death penalty for illegal camping?

After seeing the video countless times, the end result of this story can't be good for the two officers. After this shooting and others the Dept. of Justice issued a very negative report on the culture of APD. I'm a big supporter of our local LEO's but this one is very difficult to take.

It's the few whacky ones like Sandy that have caused so many problems for the majority of the fine LEO's in the Country. Very Sad!

Its because the police here shout instructions at a person who is seriously mentally ill, and expect them to respond in the same way that a normal person would.

I would have to say that the "CULTURE" of the PD dept that promotes/allows such behavior, is/was NOT developed by the "few". I believe that makes the issue much larger than you may be alluding to, as unfortunate as it may be.

To paraphrase another thread, are any of us safe?

I have an ex-BIL who once said anyone can end up in prison. I didn't believe it at the time but now prison might be the better alternative than death by cop.

Joking around is joking around folks, If all of us that play golf together were brought to justice there would be a lot (99%) put in jail.
I am not a believer in karma.
Coincidences--irrerguardless of what NCIS says---happen.
Now this story is just what it is--a cowboy act---let's have another cowboy act and string 'em up.
IF you are that afraid of your job---get another one.
Blessings

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TEXAS, by GOD

From 2010 to 2014 there were 40 police shootings in ABQ, 27 fatal. Some were questionable and have cost the tax payer millions from civil lawsuits. This is the first one DA Brandenberg has prosecuted.

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Thread Killer.

As I understand it, the homeless fellow was shot with less lethal bean bag rounds and later died.

So...homeless rambling crazy guy...with knives... stand off that lasts hours... he gets the dog, a bean bag round and a flash bang. Not exactly an execution. Sounds more like an unfortunate event.

I draw that from the CNN account of events.

GatorFarmer, here's the story; from the ABQ Journal headlines:

Officers charged with murder | Albuquerque Journal News

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Thread Killer.

If you watch the video of the actual shooting, they shoot him with AR's first, then pelt him with bean bags after that.
I don't know if the rounds from the AR's we're live rounds or "less then lethal" but they shot him in the back from a distance way beyond "imminent threat".
All of this after he appeared to be surrendering. During the surrender, they threw a flash-bang at him and released the K9 on him.

I support law enforcement officers, but these guys escalated the situation themselves, then killed a man. These guys are not real cops.

I sense that he will be singing the Prison Blues with Harry Dean Stanton, Luke and the boys.

I also support LEO's, strongly. I can't support these officers.

As for the "joking around", I don't buy it.

I haven't played golf for nearly sixty years; but I've fished and hunted and fought fires with a lot of men, and hung out with groups of men and women whose sense of humor was pretty damn crude and bawdy. I've never heard anyone "joke around" about shooting someone in the genitals or hitting him in the crotch with a two iron or hooking him there with a muskie crankbait.

If that is the standard of humor across the whole department these guys represent, that's really troubling. My guess is that it is not typical.

I hope not.

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Oh well, what the hell.

I just saw the video yesterday. Unless there is some element that was not captured in the video, it looks very bad for the officers involved.

There is a very serious problem in our cities with homeless mentally ill people. When mental institutions across the country were closed a few decades ago, many people were turned out onto the streets. They cannot function in society and can barely care for themselves. Police and EMTs are left to deal with them. However, we don't have the skills or resources to help them and have been handed a problem we can't solve. It's a sad, frustrating situation.


Sent from my iPhone 6 using Tapatalk

I wasn't there but after watching the video a half dozen times it sure looks like they murdered the man who was about to comply with their demand to get down on the ground. What I wonder is with all their firepower, Dog and man power why they felt they had to shoot at all. I'd certainly like to know how they were trained, because it looks like they were NOT trained very well!

No, he was killed by rifle fire.

Keith Sandy handed off non-lethal Taser shotgun to focus sights of live-ammo rifle on Boyd | KOB.com

There were originally two distinct mindsets and training regimens at the Albuquerque Police Department. Most officers received regular training as normally seen in other departments. There was also a small section of officers trained to be harsher than usual when dealing with more difficult suspects such as repeat offenders.

Keith Sandy, who fired the lethal rounds, was the on-call "Repeat Offender" Project officer that night.

That section was disbanded after the DOJ investigation.

Zagged--I guess our group is a bunch of Neanderthals---we accept and are honored.
I have been threatened with a 1 iron to the groin for missing a 3 foot putt.
Didn't bother me--nobody can hit a one iron.
Blessings

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TEXAS, by GOD

There are really only two possible reasons. Poor training is not one of them because even someone who is not trained should still be able to use logic and common sense.

Reason one is that they are simply cowards. I know LEOs have a hard job and I respect most for what they do but if it scares you that much then you belong in another career field. Like you said they had all that man power, fire power, and dogs and still felt like they needed to kill this man from a distance like that? If that's not cowardly I don't know what is... It's somewhat difficult to believe that someone could be that much of coward which leads to my second reason...

Reason two is that they simply have mental issues and killed this guy for the hell of it because they thought they could get away with it. Which they may still get away with it, we'll see what happens in the trial.

Beyond that I can't think of any sensible reason why these officers dropped that guy like they did. Just not right. He had his back turned at the time the shots were fired. RIP.

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M&P 15-22
1911

It does look bad for the officers involved, but I think no matter what the DA would have prosecuted for the simple reason that they don't want Ferguson type protests happening there. If the jury acquits, which I doubt they will, then the DA can wash her hands of it and say "but I prosecuted them, don't blame me!". Were they wrong, it looks like something happened that shouldn't have but at the same time, this reeks of politics as well, and that's the danger cops start having now to deal with is second guessing whether they're right or wrong.

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Vaya con Dios

When I was police officer a lot of the homeless had some type of mental disorder the others were generally alcoholics/drug addicts. There wasn't a viable option in most cases to help these people. You could involuntarily commit them for 96 hours but after just dealing with them for a brief period of time that would never happen unless they said they were going to harm themselves. You know it's not against the law to be mentally insane. I have only sen photos of this incident but I don't see what the big deal is with sleeping in the desert. I also agree that the amount of shooting seems too high in this town.

One thing I noticed towards the end of my career was the lack of qualified applicants for the position. Most of the new hires were not interested in doing anything other than hanging out at the Quik Trip and flirting with the female clerks. These guys and gals had no shame in taking a paycheck and doing nothing to earn it. After i left they hired a guy that had major anger management problems that were well documented. The chief ignored these and this fellow later pushed a resident down his basement steps and left him there and then left. The victim's brother arrived home a few minutes later unaware that the police had just left and found his brother unconscious at the bottom of the steps. This guy died a few days later and fortunately for him they had installed video cameras on the outside of the house that the police were unaware of which showed this officer arriving and leaving. The officer was found guilty of manslaughter and served 8 years in prison. the others involved were fired. This incident should have never happened and the entire blame falls on the chief for hiring this loose cannon. I don't know if this is the case in New Mexico or not but the top is where I would start, they might be a bunch of boobs like my former chief is.

I disagree. With the number of shootings by the APD and the planned shooting of a man who was camping - it is not politics. You call it what it is - murder. A man who was doing nothing but camping when the PD arrive escalates to killing him as he is complying with their instructions. I would call into question the APD hiring process, training, and supervision of it's officers. I don't know but I'm guessing they have more officers assigned to IAD than to Human Resources and try to get it right after the person is hired as a LEO. This sadly scars the law enforcement community and all the excellent LEO's that will see this incident and shake their head, say nothing and go to work carrying this burden with them.

The DA herself is facing charges involving a bribery concerning a burglary charge against her son. Get a new prosecutor and proceed on. I don't live or work there so I have no idea what is going on. What I do know is that in a LEO career spanning alost 40 years I was involved dozens of incidents in which lethal force would have been justified. I was lucky enough to have been able to handle all but one without lethal force, and that one left us no alternative. One incident I remember vividly. A very large woman was menacing her neighbors with a large butcher knife. They called us and I was first on the scene. She came at me with the knife. She was slower and not as agile as I was at the time so I figured I could handle her without shooting her. I knocked her out and got the knife. Then the same neighbors she had been threatening gathered around me and started raising hell and throwing bottles because I hit her. Other officers arrived and some of the neighbors got arrested. Basically what I'm saying is no matter what you do they're still gonna bitch about it.

Yeah, I saw this the other day, too. I'd wondered how things had been developing and shaping up in recent months. Unsurprising the local DA is going to run with this one, what with the way grand jury use has been getting dragged through the news.

Anyway, maybe some review of the original thread topic on this incident might be interesting to any newer readers/members.

Camper shot by police.

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Ret LE Firearms inst & armorer

I was still wearing a badge when this went down, and like a lot of fellow officers, I wanted to make sense of what looked like a case of excessive use of force. All I can figure is that there was some kind of bad chemistry that got the best of the cops during that standoff. I completely understand frustration adding to the problem with a standoff lasting hours, but we're expected to be able to deal with that as part of our job. According to some, excessive use of force has been an issue in the APD. I wouldn't know, but having dealt with EDPs, I do know how quickly they can swing from one extreme to another.

I likely didn't experience, to date, quite as many situations as did Charlie Sherrill in which deadly force would have been (clearly) justified but I had many. As have many, many other LEO's in this great land.

To be specific, I found myself in myriad situations in which the bad guy had a gun in his hand or within reach. Never shot any of them but absolutely could have. But they did what I told them to do and saved themselves...for that I am grateful.

Again, seems to me too many LEO's are unwilling to go hands on with people and are a bit too willing (eager?) to use deadly force. Are they afraid? Who knows, but it's not a good thing to employ personnel who are scared of confronting bad guys/girls and resolving the matters at hand without shooting them.

Be safe.

It is extremely sad to see this happen not once but multiple times. What it tells me is the selection process is flawed and the end result is a man is dead (mentally ill or not) and this officer and/or officers maybe facing prison time.

APD has had an ongoing problem for many years because their payscale for recruits is less than departments in adjoining states, and even other parts of New Mexico.

I hope that murdering *** burns in hell.

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Molon Labe!

Well if I got a flash bang grenade,,, LETS USE IT!
Seems to me that a lot of cops think if they have SWAT or military equipment,, then they should act like they know how and when to use it!
Problem is ,they want to push any encounter into a "tactical" situation!
When a perp runs ,, and you have a k-9 there. You send the K-9 after him!!!
What's so hard to understand about that?

As a whole I support Cops and the job they do, but I also believe that they should be accountable to the same law they are sworn to uphold.

I saw the video not long after it came out and was outraged at the lack of professionalism shown by the officers that shot him. I am glad they will be prosecuted and I hope they are not let off the hook.

it was still light out hold the flash bang and hold the dog. Just taser the man and take him to jail. Thats how we see it theres probably alot of facts we have not heard of in this bad story. i would like to know the outcome and all the facts sad for everyone envolved

One thing that led to the lower qualified applicants was the proliferation of the pay as you go training in my area. When I started you had to be hired prior to attending the academy and the departments paid your salary while you attended. The departments had to invest a lot of money so they were more inclined to reject anyone that had problems. About 30 years ago there were several private training academies that took people as long as they could pay. They claimed to do backgrounds on the trainees but I did pre employment backgrounds on several while I was a detective and most had problems that would have prevented them from being hired in the time frame when I was hired. Most of the applicants used some type of financial aid after they finished their training they were free to apply for positions with numerous departments. Once the departments learned that they could save money by hiring someone that was already trained that's when the problems started. Most figured that if someone didn't work out they could easily replace them. What these same genius's didn't take into account was the amount of time and resources need to field train the new hires. So even if they could be easily replaced you had to start from scratch with the next one.

Now after you have some of these marginal officers on the job for a few years the ones hired after them tend to look to the older ones if they have questions. This leads to disaster eventually but most of the time a life is not lost like it was where I worked.

Aside from wisecracks about the 223 rem round, what can one fire from an AR that would be less than lethal, and still be effective?

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it just needs more voltage

Rubber bullets?
A web search shows that they are out there.

I have no idea how effective they would be, though.

I can't see it being much more effective than a fairly high end airsoft gun where mass and velocity marry up.

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it just needs more voltage

Sadly, there's no court in this country for these types of officers. They should be hung by a mob.

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I'm Proud To Be An American!