I drove all over CT yesterday to hit numerous shops for a few items on my check list. I saw several consignment guns that were tagged top of the market plus about 25%. Some looked like they hadn't been cleaned in 30 years. If you're going to ask unrealistically high prices, shouldn't you at least make the firearm look as presentable as possible? It really isn't hard at all to do. Just one of those things that makes me scratch my head.

This is a pet peeve of mine, too. Turns out 1) most people don't know or don't care about taking care of their firearms, and 2) dealers don't want to put in the time, even though it could help sell the arm. Go Figure!

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ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

I never sell or trade a gun without cleaning it. I'd personally be embarrassed handing over a filthy gun....

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- The Federalist #46 -

The 6" barrel, blue steel S&W 19-5 in the middle of this photo was full of what appeared to be potting soil.


This Ruger P95dc was coated on the inside with white latex paint.


This little beauty of a Mossberg 500 took two industrial size cans of GunScrubber to clean it up...literally half of what I paid for the gun.



Some shops don't bother to clean up bulk trade items because it is not cost effective.

I like when a gun appears dirty and uncared for. It helps me decide not to buy it.

The only gun stores I've patronized for many years present their stock very well cleaned.

That's one of many reasons they were the only ones I used for the last several years I was able to buy firearms.

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Oh well, what the hell.

I thought this thread was gonna be about this gun:



This is a family site so, if you want to see the rest of the engraving, you'll have to look up Perazzi Engraving 912 on your own.

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Freedom isn't free.

I have never understood this practice for gun sales. Used guns get traded in, they aren't fired by the gun shop and they aren't cleaned. Just tossed in the case with a tag put on a string. Although I assume it's better than a wore out car that is spit shined to look like you are getting more than you really are. But if I am selling something, I'd prefer it to be as good looking as it can be for me to want to buy it.

Matt

I disassemble and clean every gun I purchase. New or otherwise. I recently acquired a really nice looking (used) Winchester 70 BOSS in .30-06. Gun looked real clean, until I started in on it. A good week (on/off after work) cleaning, and it was better than it came out of the factory.

Me & my brother buy up grungy guns of individuals all the time.
Instead of watching TV we spend our time shining them up.
Some times we have to prop them up in back of truck to"dry"
on way to show. It's good way to increase your trade stocks
worth, with little effort.

A lot of guns are damaged by improper cleaning. Maybe, in some cases, it's better if they're left dirty. I'd rather have a dirty barrel than a damaged crown.

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~ S&W aficionado in training ~

I keep hearing this, but I've never seen it. How does one damage a gun by cleaning it?

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Freedom isn't free.

It makes me wonder if they are trying to hide a bad barrel sometimes, or are just that lazy. I saved a fixer upper Winchester pre 1968 bolt 22 lr that Bubba took a black sharpie magic marker to the fore end to make it look like a Remington.
App 45 minutes of cleaning & I made over 100$ on the flip. Much better pay than I ever made as an Rn.
Guns are damaged by NOT CLEANING also, more so IMO. I never fail to mention that had they spent the 30 minutes cleaning what they are selling, my offer would be well worth their time. Not 2 weeks ago a use em & forget em buddy of mine tried to sell me his mdl 10. At a quick glance I said it has rust/pitting & sand in the bbl, he say's "I know, it's a field gun", I counter with, that's fine but the field is supposed to stay outside of the gun & I wouldn't pay you a fraction of the price had you kept it in 80-90%, the time it takes you to drink a beer, after every shooting.

Sorry. Couldn't resist

I have seen crowns damaged by cleaning rods shoved down bores with reckless abandon. Chambers scratched from patch holders being jerked through and pushed forward faster than a Singer sewing machine makes stitches. Incorrect size screw drivers used to booger up screw heads.

It never ceases to amaze me how some will work (spending time & money) to scrub off over half the value of some older guns, then liberally apply cold blue figuring they are gonna double their money.

Second surest way, let an IDIOT get their hands on a dremel tool.

Seriously? Have you never seen a custom made adjustable choke? This was installed by "Bubba", a well known gunsmith. He works on most any type of firearm.


BTW, this cost me $35.00, the choke was worth at least a $1.00!!

Yeah, but this is not cleaning is it? It's altering on purpose. That's a completely different concept.

I've also heard of crowns, bores and chambers being scratched by cleaning rods. None of the rods I own will do that, but I guess it happens because so many talk about it.

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Freedom isn't free.

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

Oh man, that is great! I couldn't quite make out the purpose of the plumbing hardware on the muzzle. Thanks for the close up.

It's worth more than $35 in laughs alone

Not MacGyver's shotgun, it now belongs to a local lawman.

See, I mentioned in another thread that some folks do not know how to shop!

I hope you guys worried about dirty guns never get into collecting military surplus arms. You'd faint at the sight of all that cosmoline!

But cosmoline is GOOD dirt. When it comes off, there is often a clean, undamaged collectible firearm under there.

Russ

That shotgun hose clamp choke takes the cake & belongs in the Bubba museum of fine guns.

Here is a gun that i believed was damaged from not cleaning correctly. Note the pattern that i believe was from a cloth with abrasive material on it.



This gun was also stored in a bad manner. The bore is like new and also was clean as a whistle under the side plate. It is now my favorite camp gun.

Two things bother me about dirt. Was the gun otherwise neglected to a degree that would harm it? I don't have the skills to take down and clean my own guns, and the cost of a cleaning and check would have to be added to the price.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

Most LGS these days are interested mostly in profit, selling new guns, and can't be bothered (for the most part) with cleaning old used guns. Since they know many of the older models are sought after now, they figure they will just sell themselves the way they are. Most Shop owners lack the pride and effort to go to the next level - but I'm sure there are a select few that still do - but good luck finding them!

that ma man is funny

Some of you boys have never heard of refinishing.
Blessings

Attached Images

	BILL .22's 003.JPG (95.3 KB, 142 views)
	Bill's Guns 218.JPG (89.8 KB, 131 views)

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TEXAS, by GOD

Does it happen, sure. It looks like he wiped it down with sandpaper. That does not mean that everyone is so inept? There are a lot of bad drivers, should we all stop driving? I'm sure just about every newbie scratched or somehow marred their first gun by cleaning, then learned better, I know I did.

If there isn't a "Bubba" museum somewhere, there darn well should be!

I'd buy that gun in a minute. Damaged finished is not the same as dirty, which is generally a deal breaker for me.

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

Any used gun I have ever bought from a LGS was clean. Any gun I ever sold was clean with one exception. I picked up a clean Mossberg semi auto .22 for a real good price at a private sale and was at the range checking it out as I was going to resell it.

Gun worked fine and I told the man next to me the gun was for sale. I told him what I wanted and we made a deal. So he got a dirty gun.

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14 S&W Revs none with locks!

Clean guns are nice to look over and handle when you are out in a buying mood. But overlooking any that may have some encrusted crud attached to them is a way of missing out on some fine guns IMO.

Worn finish and even rust on the surface doesn't mean the gun is broke.

Caked on dirt and dried crud in the crevices of moving parts means that no one has taken it apart since forever,,not such a bad thing in reality.
A tweaked screw slot scares people off too.

I do like to see the bore wiped out,,a bore w/a few rounds shot through it and left that way can hide a lot from a quick inspection.

Lots of difference between buying a ready to hide safe queen and something you might want to use, carry or hunt with.

Of the three guns I've sold in the last 5 years all were spotless when I shipped them, to me it's a matter of personal pride.

Of the last four guns I've purchased only two were so clean and well taken care of all I had to do was load it and put it away. The other two were filthy and needed several hours of cleaning and the Lewis Lead Remover treatment. The two that needed all the attention were purchased from professional sellers, not private parties.

No one said anything about over looking a fine gun that's filthy. I never have, and I don't intend to. I fully agree with you that's good way to flush an opportunistic buy down the toilet. The issue is having to look through the filth when the seller want's top of the mark and then some. In that scenario, I feel I shouldn't have to look through anything. The gun should be displayed in a presentable manner. It's just unprofessional otherwise, in my opinion. Like others here, I have a sense of humility and would be embarrassed to present a filthy gun for sale, which is why I've never done it. I just can't understand why anyone would.

Stopped by my lgs five years ago and noticed a dirty model 60 on the bottom shelf priced at $225.Offered $180,took it home and worked on it that night with some mothers mag and found the correct grips on EBay for $30.If they're priced right,I don't mind a little grunge

I don't understand how ANYone can neglect a firearm to the point where it is "dirty". When I was young I had to shoot and fish with junk. I didn't have enough money to buy anything of any quality. So when I finally reached the point in my life where I could afford some better stuff I appreciated it and vowed that I would never close my eyes in sleep while a drop of salt water was on a figshing rod and reel or a spec of dirt was on a gun.

My friends all accused me of taking better care of my guns and fishing gear than I did my kids. I'm takin' the 5th on that. I just can never forget the nights I laid awake aching for a particular gun or rod and reel that I just could not afford and at the time had no hope of EVER being able to afford them.

I have no patience or respect for anyone who abuses, mistreats, or neglects a firearm. I see no difference in whether you are selling it or not. Even an inexpensive model deserves to be cleaned after firing and maintained. It is especially stupid to neglect a gun you carry for self defense.

I'm just makin' myself mad here. I gotta go lay down.....

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Real men love cats!

That seems to be so true with most. However, I know of one --where they consider me family---where anytime they get something in trade or whatever,before it goes-they do take them apart and clean them if needed.I watched them do that to a Turkish Mauser and a Mosin Nagant--two gun shows ago.

About twenty years ago--I bought afairly nice Walther P-thirty-eight at a gun show from a dealer who was from Dallas or somewhere? Anyway,the guy cleaned the weapon before selling--but put the spring in backwards. I took it out to try--about a week later after buying it--and the damned thing explode in my hands. He was lucky I did not sue. One finger on my right hand--was broke due to flying debris--and still is crooked from the ordeal. that was the only time I ever had any type of accident with any firearm I ever owned of fired. Dealer negligence. I saw him at the next show a few months later--and he griped because I paid HIS listed price for that P-thirty-eight--and he wanted more for it. I simply showed him my broken finger--told himhe was lucky that I was not the new owner of all his property.The guy shut his mouth and looked away. I still had my finger in a splint.

Been there and done that especially with all three Lithgo Lee-Enfields I have owned.

Ringo, I think that very well may explain why a lot of sellers don't do much more than a quick wipe on the outside. I know some shops that just don't want to take the chance on an employee damaging or mis-assembling something. "As is, as received" gives them the perception of being shielded from liability, if not the reality.

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ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

Actualy,what irritated me the most was that he was arrogant,and tried to weedle more money on an item that he may have under-priced. It took about six months to finally get my money back.I did threaten a lawsuit--and that was allI needed.He knew he was the guilty party.When I bought that Walther--I had a friend with me who heard our conversation about it.The guy said he was the one who cleaned the Walther--a few days before the gun show. He knew I had an open and shut case if I had to sue him.The friend who witnessed everything--was a Nueces County Constable.

One man's dirt is another mans fortune. Or used to be anyway. For years I bought the dirty and grungy ones for low bucks. Took them home, cleaned and fixed them. Always made good money that was plowed back into nice guns.

I once gave 25 bucks for a Remington 03A3. It was nasty, the bore is so rusted it needs a new BBL. Yes I agreed. Bore cleaner, stiff nylon and brass brushes had it looking new. Wish I'd kept it as it was LNIB.

I once bought a push feed Model 70 in 270, 3 years old, the idjet had deer hunted with it one year and left it behind his truck seat. The LGS gave him 20 bucks trade on a shotgun. The LGS did not want it and passed it on to me for 20. I redid the stock, steel wooled the bbl and action, cold blued it for some minor scratches and it looked wonderful.

That deer season guns were scarce from the factories and the LGS did not get any deer rifles in. He asked me how many extra ones I had and would I sell them to him. I took 4 or 5 over and sold them for a good price. He was bragging on the Win 70 in 270. Kept saying it is a newer model but looks so much nicer than regular factory. After he owned them I told him it was the rough truck gun.

He had me fix guns for him after that. This was good, I kept a tab on him, when something I wanted came in I bought it with his money.

Now that I've sold the big farm I may start looking for some more beaters.

I for one see the value in the dirty little urchins.

P.S. I too see what the original OP says about dirty guns and high prices now. Times have changed. I may have trouble finding beaters.

Absolutely. I was just showing what is likely from a improper cleaning. Also that a bad appearance on the outside does not necessarily mean a bad gun. This gun came into a LGS and sat for a while with no interest. I guess the outward appearance. I looked down the bore and thought over if i wanted to be into a gun with this much character Offered 300 out the door and the deal was done.

Other than some pocket lint in a carry gun or a gun dirty after a few hundred rounds of a RECENT class, I don't understand dirty guns either.

I also didn't understand the LGS I worked at. Owner never let us clean dirty used or consignment guns because of liability. LIABILITY!!?? What the ...? From CLEANING. Whatever I just worked there PT. I'm sure other stores are the same, it's conceivable a cleaning rod could break and do ?????? or the gun scratched by some yutz upon disassembly or reassembly.

Yes one mans junk can be another mans treasure. It's gotten me several nice guns I've kept, others I sold & made good money on, some +/- broke even and only 1 I lost app 50$, so all in all good. I still say that ALL guns new/old/dirty/clean, need to be disassembled when purchased if for no other reason than a safety/defect/ incorrect re-assembly inspection. I've found bad welds etc on brand new factory guns. Taking a new, or used, new to you gun directly to the range is asking for an event similar to Ringo's IMO.

My former Father-In-Law was insulted the first time I met him...he showed me his firearms and I spent the next several hours cleaning them, shaking my head in dismay at their condition. That should have told me what his daughter was like!

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No good deed goes unpunished.

Colby's shotgun reminds me of one owned by a guy that did bulldozer work for me in the Ga. mountains. Someone had loaded it with magnum shells, and the barrel end had just been radically blown off to look like a metal sculpture of "flames." What was left wasn't very long. His thoughts were that it was evident that it hadn't been "sawed off" so he was ok, if I remember correctly. He kept it under the seat of the dump truck he pulled his bulldozer around with. Sometimes the dirt pays off. I once bought a 94 AE lever gun from a pawn broker in Cal. It looked rough in the pics on GB-had a big mark on the barrel end, and was dull, etc. I got the thing cheap-not many bids-especially for a Winchester, and figured I could clean and fix it up into a good self defense gun (.357 Mag). Started to wipe the barrel down-planning on some cold blu or something, and the big ugly mark on the barrel just wiped off! It had evidently picked up something it had been laid against. The rest of the gun was the same. I must have cleaned the bore the equivalent of 5 times-great bore down under there-Flitzed the receiver several times-nice blu way down in there-same with the wood, I never saw one nastier. Pawn broker was just turning it for a fast buck. Thank you Sir.

I saw a 4" 686-6 plus at GM this weekend. I could have gotten 10% off which made it semi-reasonably priced, but it was grossly dirty and mis-kept. I couldn't bring myself to buy it based on how the previous owner must have mistreated it.

I don't mind buying used, but I refuse to buy abused!

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paws for friendship