The daughter of a HS friend left a month or so ago for Navy basic. She had been really excited about following her grandfather's footsteps into the Navy. Unfortunatley, she's being sent home for "medical conditions related to high anxiety." Her father has not tried to hide his disappointment, preferring to tell her, "it's your life--your decision."

My hat's off to the young lady for giving it her best shot, but I have nothing nice to say about the sperm donor who helped make her life possible.

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Where's my dad's America?

Not everyone can hack it. That's why they have Unsuitable and Medical conditions for release.

I wish her luck in finding a better suited role in life.

Everyone is not suited for the military. This young lady deserves admiration for wanting to serve her country. There are many ways to be of service and hopefully she will find the right fit for her.

I'm not arguing that. I just don't understand why some people are non-supportive [not nice people] to their own kids.

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Where's my dad's America?

I have a brilliant cousin who got an appointment to the Air Force Academy, and had to come home, due to nerves, altitude, or both. It is what it is.

Her father should be there to support her, and let her know its gonna work out in the end. I hope she docent take his "advice" too seriously. Please let her know that we appreciate her giving it a shot (heck of a lot more than most people do for their country!), and not to worry, God's just got other plans for her....

I understand your frustration. When a person does not succeed at something they want to do you don't need "dear old dad" to to kick ya' around some too. Hopefully she will get some positive advice outside the family.
By the way, your name and location indicate you may have been or are a navigator, possibly on a Hercules?

Guilty as charged. I am a practitioner of some very arcane arts all but lost to the passage of time.

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Where's my dad's America?

To be fair, we don't really know the family, or what was actually said or what this girl is really like. I do know the modern military does make it easy (maybe too easy to opt out).

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Support your Police, & NRA

Father is a jerk. How can it be "her decision" to be emotionally unsuitable for military life?

Saw a similar deal with an older guy in the UK who loved flying and had served in the RAF. Apparently he never finished fighter pilot training because he got "exam nerves" whenever he went up with an instructor to assess his aerobatics. His nervousness resulted in him barfing, so he got bounced out of the program. Send him up on his own and he would bring back a plane bent beyond its G limit with no puke in sight.

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Release the Kraken

An acquaintance of mine dropped out of the US Naval Academy after his plebe year; he got sick and tired of the hazing and harassment by upper-classmen. (This was about 40 years ago.) He did okay, became an airline pilot and has had a good career.

Your friend's daughter will land on her feet, Herknav...and I hope her dad finds it in his heart to support her and encourage her.

I hope her dad gets a painful and embarrassing rash - there... I said it!

God bless her for trying and I hope she can see the light that the future is up to her and she can do anything she puts her mind to.

She sounds like a fine young woman.

Honestly, I have read this thread twice and still cannot figger out why the rant was posted .
Was she sent home or did she quit ?
Blessings

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TEXAS, by GOD

Herknav -- if you can, write that young lady a letter congratulating her spirit and daring, regardless of outcome. Let her know it's recognized and commendable.

Here's a relevant, famous snippet from Theodore Roosevelt's speech, "Citizenship in a Republic":

It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat.

Those words, or words to their effect, will likely be of great solace to her now or eventually, as will be that someone took the time, not least because it sounds like her father -- who should -- won't.

Rudyard Kipling's poem "If", too, can be a comfort for someone going through disappointment.

Point is, you've spotted someone likely in desperate need of a kind word...

What I don't understand is exactly was the dad supposed to say? It IS her life. It IS her decision." He can't make it for her.

I don't know what else he may have done or said, but I don't see much wrong with that.

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John 3:16 .

I agree sir.

Please let her know that we appreciate her giving it a shot (heck of a lot more than most people do for their country!), and not to worry, God's just got other plans for her....
Quote from Autococker^^^^^

I just can't imagine anyone who can't be supportive of anyone who tries. God knows there are enough who could care less about their country. I admire anyone who at least tries to serve their country by joining the military. we need all the people like this we can get we certainly have enough shirkers now, we don't need more.

God bless her for even trying!!

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I Cor. 10:13 "1611KJV"

Interesting. I don't recall high anxiety being a reason for early release when I was at Ft. Knox. More likely there was a D.I. in each ear hole, strongly encouraging the trainee to suck it up and get with the program. Of course, I was in 100 years ago, when the military was almost exclusively an all boys club. I know I'll be going against the grain here, but her dad knows her better than we do. Maybe she's got a track record of quitting whenever things get tough. Quitting's like lying, the more you do it, the easier it gets. Pretty soon, you're not finishing anything you start. My $0.02 you understand.

Not personally knowing her, the only thing I will say is it's admirable she wants to serve her country in the military but it's not for everybody.
Not meaning anything bad about her or the reasons she came home and hopefully there are other ways that might satisfy her desire to serve.
I wish her the best. Sounds like her heart is ithe right place.

"your life, your decision" is a terrible thing to say about someone released for medical reasons from volunteering to serve their country. It wasn't her decision. She tried and was found unable to continue. The least he could do is provide a little support at a time when her pride and self confidence must be badly wounded, to heck with his own disappointment.

The best advice that I can give is that sometimes things like this end up in a way that is not meant to change any possible outcome that may not materialize in a way not subject to any other alternative.

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James Redfield
LM #497

Make sure she know's your "hat's off to her"

There are other ways to help or serve - nursing or physical therapist. If she was mature enough to decide to go into the Navy, she'll find her way.

I think Dad needs a reality check,Not all People are suited for the Military and Boot Camp is where They find it out.
Instead of being a insensitive Jerk Dad should be proud that She wanted to serve instead of berating Her for what happened.
We had a Guy that looked like Hulk Hogan in Boot Camp and He only lasted two weeks before He was let go.There is no shame in trying and not making it,The only shame is not trying.

Probably not the reason, I saw a tremendous change in what Drill Sergeants were able to do from when I went through BCT (old rules, "dying cockroach" and all ) to 10 years later when they were "counselors" The abilities of the troops coming out of BCT was drastically different (not in a good sense) in that later period

At least she tried and that's more than most people can say.

I'm sure there are plenty of other jobs out there for her.

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Jorge

I'm guessing the medical diagnosis had to be mutually agreed upon, therefore the "your decision" comment. Sounds like she had a choice to "suck it up" (as was said) or take the medical discharge.

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War Eagle! '10 BCS & '13 SEC

I agree with this, I'd like to think that she wanted to succeed too badly, hence the "high anxiety."
Anxiety due to an implanted defibrillator actually put me on hospital life support for two days.

In this post Draft era the branches of the military has raised their standards to where the recruits are pushed to bring out any fault be it medical or physiological... I commend her for at least trying.

As much as I like to think/say that all young people can benefit from military service the truth is that not every one is suited physically/mentally/emotionally to military service. One of the main functions of Boot Camp is to determine who is and is not fit. For any military unit to function to the effectiveness and safety of all it's members everyone must be fully qualified. One person NOT qualified can endanger the objective and safety of the other members of the unit.

There is no disgrace in being a person who fits a different profile. It's just a highly specific requirement for military service. There are many occupations out there that require certain abilities etc. My hat's off to the young lady for wanting to serve and trying her best. There is something for everyone and I hope she finds something that makes her happy that she is better suited for.

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Real men love cats!

I was categorized 4F from the beginning. The Vietnam war was ending and they were looking to downsize more than recruit. Looking back I think it's just as well. Maybe I would have done ok, but I'm not one that takes to being regimented, though I would certainly try to fit it. The main point here is that her life can take many paths that don't include active military service.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

The OP says she was following in her grandfather's footsteps, not her father's. Did her father serve? If not, then the father needs to shut up. If he did serve, then he needs to shut up and listen to his daughter as to why she didn't finish. I said did not finish, I did not say failed. The military is a hell of a lot tougher on women than men. With all of the sexual scandals and misconduct in the military today, it surprises me any women have the courage to serve. How much **** do they need to put up with? As said above, just my $0.02 worth.

I’m glad that the young lady made an attempt to server her country. Yet I thought any basic training be it military, L/E, fire service was intended to cause stress to one degree or another. Remember “the only easy day was yesterday.”
I find it interesting that an enlistee can simply quite basic training.When I was in, 40 + years ago, you did not get out until the service decided they no longer had a need for you.

All too often there is a definite lack of challenges in many folks life today. How is anyone going to learn, in most cases, they do have the ability to overcome if they are not willing to push themselves?

Hard to win as a dad these days. People blame you if you are soft, and people blame you if you are tough.

The dad likely made the comment he did because the girl got an "I quit" discharge, but written up nicely as a medical and not in a negative way such as unfit for military life, etc. In these all volunteer, professional, forces there is an opt mechanism built into basic training, where if you do not want to be there, they do not want you there.

Barring that an actual and severe psychiatric impairment was just discovered, and it well could have been under stress, then the medical discharge is simply a way to release the woman.

No shame in trying, but where the dad is uspet, perhaps rightly, is to chastise the decision to quit. He presumably knows his daughter and the circumstances better than any of us.

There were people who went home after one night or a few weeks in college, crying, stressed, etc. It happens. Traditionally a Dad has the job of encouraging his kids to not quit, never give up, etc. We could argue the merits of that philosophy as it may be better to just admit mistakes and move on. But Dad was just doing his job.

If we want to pick on him for something, we could just as easily say he had been too supportive and too kind in the past and thus failed to prepare his daughter for harsh situations. Makes as much sense as raking the poor guy over the coals now.

Uh,actually they still go easier on you many times if you are a woman. Despite media reports, it is quite possible to serve and not get raped. Some evidence suggests a young man is more likely to be sexually harassed and assaulted in the military than a woman.

After some legitimate failings in the past, a superior who pressures a low ranking woman, against her will, for sexual favors these days will likely find themselves in a great deal of trouble.

Though as most institutions in life, including preschool, it is just like prison. A person has to stand up for themselves and not fail a heart check.

The reasons for the young lady's release are too ambiguous for us to make judgement of either father or daughter.

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Regards, Ron
USASA 1965/69

In 1972, my boot camp class started with ~55 guys, and about 35 of the original group completed basic training.

There is a lot more to this story than the "official discharge" language which we will never know.

I and one of my brothers both served in the 1960s. Basic certainly had as one objective the weeding out of those unable to serve effectively(which can be many different things). I saw the cadre in my training company harass a guy ,who desperately wanted to serve, until he cracked up and got sent home. I hated the way they did it but it was the right result.

One of our daughters enlisted in the Navy in 2004 and did very well. Cadre doesn't scream and yell like the old days any more but they do stress the recruits. It's a whole list of simple stuff: Get up when we say, do what we say when we say, eat when we say, sleep when we say etc.. None of this seems all that tough to us old geezers who went through rougher stuff. Todays' kids aren't necessarily prepared for that.

The Navy gets lots of recruits for reasons we can understand and they DO WEED OUT people who can't cut it. Even so, unfit people get through basic. Our daughter saw several young women get pregnant on purpose to avoid deploying to sea duty. She had a number of people in her Hazmat unit get booted out of the Navy for "huffing".

All the services must weed out people who can't/won't do their duty any time/anywhere. The girl who we're talking about here shouldn't be marked for life as a failure, but needs to figure out life bites repeatedly.

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Bob.
SWCA 1821

I know I will get flamed for it, but to me the amusing part is the societal response that comes out because it is a woman in question. I would imagine that if a dad posted about his son quitting basic training and comingbhome, that the weight of opinion from other men would not be to pat him on the head and give him a prize for trying.

No, we would refer to the boy, either openly or privately, by a derogatory term for female genitalia and wonder at in what ways the dad went wrong in raising a quitter.

And no, I never enlisted. In answer to the what the hell do I know question, I spent eight years as a military spouse and my wife 20 years in the Navy. The last four of which she was assigned to Parris Island, MCRD, working directly with recruits. For three of those four years I lived right on Parris Island. Being a sociable sort, I had a chance to talk to recruits on every recruit liberty Sunday and new graduates. My wife meanwhile got to know the DIs, the process, etc.

Btw, they considered her a rough sort and named her Bulldog. At least once she made a DI cry.

Parris Island is probably the toughest recruit training that currently goes on in the United States.The DIs will still swarm male recruits, reduce them to tears, trying to either toughen up or weed out those that ought not be there. There are also people who get hurt, get sick etc and get a medical.

Female recruits in the Marines, which probably the single least friendly service to women in terms of political correctness, are by policy not given the same swarm and break them treatment as the men. In fact, there is a deliberate effort made to retain even those who have second thoughts via counseling, etc. More effort and resources would be expended to retain a woman than a man.

Now I in no way blame someone for quitting, they want you to quit if it is truly not for you and we are likely better off for that. But it is simply not true that women have it harder or that support is not that if someone WANTs to be there and overcome their anxiety and other issues.

DIs today have a very hard job, but by and large they are not sadists and methods are in place to retain and work with motivated recruits who want to be there but get hurt, get sad, have to lose more weight, etc.

I have five children and to pay for their college they will all have to enlist. Emphasis on have. There is no choice. I wish I could provide one, but I can't. And even now, as they are small the children grow up knowing that. Shrug. It is what is. If they get sent home, by their choice, sure they are kids and I will live them, but there will be no trophy for trying and I would feel that if they quit, we both failed in a way.

We lost a few guys on the first day of OCS. Those guys really did not belong in OCS just based on attitude. They were not willing to learn to follow before they learned to lead.

We lost about a third in the first two weeks, those guys also did not belong because they were either:
- not sharp enough (i.e. learned too slowly); or
- not mentally tough enough (i.e. just gave up); or
- had a physical issue that could not be overcome (i.e no matter ho hard they pushed they could not meet the minimum requirement).

After those first two weeks we lost relatively few people, in large part because they were mostly done with the weeding out process. Eventually, whether it's basic training or OCS, the DIs have to start easing up on you because you're also there to learn and people don't learn efficiently under extreme stress.

Understanding that you can endure anything for a finite period of time, and the knowledge or belief that sooner or later it has to get better, combined with just being mentally tough enough (or stubborn enough) to hang in there until that happens is 95% of what it takes to gets people through military training, if they have the basic aptitude to do it.

She needed to watch this video...
http://youtu.be/ntGRosZ6VzU

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USAF AMMO

Interesting. I have nothing to say about the dad.

For ME, I was 17 deciding on service or college.

I decided college because I could quit. At that time I would have been owned by the service. I am an independent person running my own business most of my life.

She had more guts than I did.

David

I couldnt get in because of health reasons--and I DID try about three or so times-and only tried Army and Air Force. Anyway,im glad she made the attempt to serve and im greatful for that.

Well, each service does things differently and, without commenting on the foregoing, I'd see if maybe the Air Force isn't a better fit.

I know a young man who is having trouble adjusting after a pretty horrific upbringing and who was considering joining the service. I told him not to make a hasty decision, but that he would be a good candidate for the Air Force because he needed some structure to help keep him in the road.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

I can't imagine the humiliation and degradation my dad would have put me through in the same situation.

I think there is more to the story. Either the girl did not tell her dad the whole story or the dad did not tell the OP the whole story or a little bit of both.

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... a little behind in my work

My class in '65 was a full company and we had less than 10 drop
outs.

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Regards, Ron
USASA 1965/69

I guess we don't know why for her. The military has a bent to weed out folks who may need to be tough or realistic under life or death situations.It is a reality and a necessity.

A gent who worked for me was a recent PHD school grad, he hated his job and started working on the IT system there, liked it better and applied for a job with me. Starting at the bottom.

He had a little anxiety at the way we worked, lots of it, fast and correct. He did fall in line. I got him a nice job with our IT group writing programs. He liked that.

I started getting calls from him post 911, he was asking me about the service and in particular the Marines. He then called me and said he applied for OCS and the Marines. I had him come by my office everyday for a while. I went over Boot, DI's, how they try to make you fail or walk off and how to get it right without being a sukup.

His wife was going to school getting her masters there. So off he went, came home and swung by my office in uniform, being he already had 7 years of college he came in as a 1st LT. Sharp looking guy, just FYI, his dad was not close and i feel I was looked at as a father figure.

I told him how sharp he looked and how proud of him I was. The dad never showed nor told him anything. He was beaming. They denied his application to be a line officer and put him in closer to his degrees.

He told me how everything I had told him was the way it was, he jumped when they said jump and volunteered to lead at every opportunity. He said if he would have gone in cold turkey it may have been very hard. Just knowing upfront they were doing their job and all you need is an Aye Aye Sir to get it done is a key.

I had the same talk with my own son when he went to the Corp.

You Marine guys are probably saying what does a Army branded fellow know about the corp? I started in the USNR, went to Hospital Corp school, did 6 months of active duty and transferred to the National Guard when I got home due to no USN units within 4-5 hours, did not like the NG and transferred to the Army Reserves which I did like.

So I did Boot light in the USN. I know it is a different Boot than the Corp. You guys did the 20 mile hump to the mountain with a 100 lb pack at San Diego in the heat. We humped from the barracks to the chow hall.

The Corp guys did PT for 30 hours a day, We did 15 minutes before the hard hump to chow. Some days it was raining and our little soft bellies would get wet. But we persevered.

I did 6 months active at Portsmouth working with Marines that partially came back from Nam. They needed ears, I listened and I did all I could for those guys. Helped them meet their families who were in shock and did not know what to say.

I have memories from that 6 months that will bring tears to my eyes 50 years later.

Some folks are all thumbs when it comes to saying the right thing. So he isn't Dr. Phil...at least he is a presence in her life.

Lots of people have to give it up in basic. I saw a few who couldn't get their mind right. It's a head game to be sure. Most would never even entertain the idea. A plus in her column as far as I'm concerned.

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That's just somebody talkin.

She was sent home. "Dad" who only recently took an interest in her life, seems to think it was a "mind over matter" problem. My point is that she tried, and he is NOT hiding his disappointment in her.

Apologies for the poor writing. I was trying to not inundate folks with a lot of backstory. I just needed to vent; no judgement required.

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Where's my dad's America?