Feeling uneasy at range today.

[Blowncar]

Went to local indoor public range today in Boise Idaho rather than my normal outdoor range (cold). At this place they sell and also rent handguns and AR's/FN's etc. Found myself waiting behind a middle eastern young man (23-27yr old heavy accent) and his girlfriend to pay for range time. It was clear he had no experience with guns and he wanted to fire the FN semi auto assault style weapon. They had to show him how to load it and take it inside the range and orientate him on how it worked. Not phobic but hairs on arms tingled a bit. Thought to myself i shouldn't have this feeling because I'm a nice person. The other voice in my head was saying, hey pay attention to your instinct and be observant, screw being PC.

[gunnails]

So did they buy the FN, did they appear to enjoy there shoot?

[usm1rifle]

Welcome to late 2015.

I share your pain and your feelings. Remain vigilant.

[Blowncar]

Range has pistol and divided rifle areas so not sure if he enjoyed his time. I enjoyed my 329, 625jm and wife shot her 1911 colt 22lr well.

[Philadelphia Patriot]

[ordy]

I think all of us are becoming a little wary when we see things like that. The acts of zealotry and the way they are handled by the media are making us s/w paranoid. Our 'live and let live' attitudes are changing in a negative way. We have become suspicious and maybe a little afraid. Ask yourself how you would feel if it were a cute couple from the farm land asking the same questions. I refuse to allow suspicion, fear and prejudice to overrule my common sense. That being said, I will continue to be vigilant and situationally aware just as I am every other day.

[BAM-BAM]

It's a tough call...... goes against our nature......but

We taught 20 young men to fly planes a little over 14 years ago

It's been reported that the SB shooters spent a lot of time a local ranges........

New interest in semi-auto assault style weapons and how they work.....

Did you see "a dot"?????.........they can't connect them if they don't know about them........as a police officer you should have a way to pass it up the chain.

Reread your own last 3 sentences ........and follow your gut.

[10mmauto]

Originally Posted by Blowncar

Went to local indoor public range today in Boise Idaho rather than my normal outdoor range (cold). At this place they sell and also rent handguns and AR's/FN's etc. Found myself waiting behind a middle eastern young man (23-27yr old heavy accent) and his girlfriend to pay for range time. It was clear he had no experience with guns and he wanted to fire the FN semi auto assault style weapon. They had to show him how to load it and take it inside the range and orientate him on how it worked. Not phobic but hairs on arms tingled a bit. Thought to myself i shouldn't have this feeling because I'm a nice person. The other voice in my head was saying, hey pay attention to your instinct and be observant, screw being PC.

I guess I'm not quite following, here. You have a badge icon, so I assume you are law enforcement. What did you do? Did you ask the range people for his name? Did you ask if they had a copy of his ID? If they said that was private information, did you let them know you were a police officer? If they continued to refuse, did you advise them that they should make sure to maintain whatever records they had so that once you advised your investigators/detectives what happened, they would still have the records for when the detectives/investigators came in?

Did you get the license plate of the guy's car? Did you follow him to see where he went/lived? Did you pass whatever information you had onto HSI or the FBI?

The time for political correctness has passed. The time to worry about "profiling" has passed. We are constantly telling people that if they "see something, say something." We have to take our own advice.

As an aside, if your "sixth sense" was telling you something, trust it.

[Arik]

Originally Posted by 10mmauto

I guess I'm not quite following, here. You have a badge icon, so I assume you are law enforcement. What did you do? Did you ask the range people for his name? Did you ask if they had a copy of his ID? If they said that was private information, did you let them know you were a police officer? If they continued to refuse, did you advise them that they should make sure to maintain whatever records they had so that once you advised your investigators/detectives what happened, they would still have the records for when the detectives/investigators came in?

Did you get the license plate of the guy's car? Did you follow him to see where he went/lived? Did you pass whatever information you had onto HSI or the FBI?

The time for political correctness has passed. The time to worry about "profiling" has passed. We are constantly telling people that if they "see something, say something." We have to take our own advice.

As an aside, if your "sixth sense" was telling you something, trust it.

Look at his BIO. Retired prison warden

Don't you need proper cause for all that? Skin color, accent and guns are all legal. If a black guy came in wearing baggy pants and an oversized shirt, talking ghetto would you do the same? Should you ask him his religion? Would you let a guy with a shaved head and Swastika tattoos rent a gun?
Middle East isn't as full of Muslims as people think.

Christians in the middle east
Egypt - 11 million
Syria - 2.3 million
Lebanon - 1.8 million
Iraq - 300,000
Iran - 370,000
Palestine - 50,000
Jordan - 400,000


Don't get me wrong I understand where your coming from but the guy didn't do anything illegal and he could very well not even be middle eastern. Without the turbans ever try to see if you can tell a difference between an Indian and a Pakistani?

[Mainsail]

Terrorists usually don't go to the range to learn how to shoot, they go to practice what they learned in terrorist training camps.

For all we know they were there to learn how to protect themselves from radical anti-Muslims who judge by the level of pigmentation in another's skin.

When I was active duty we spent a lot of time in Bahrain, Cairo, UAE, and all the other so-called hot spots. I observed many 'middle easterners' playing ball in the yard with their children, shopping, etc.. Remember that what you see in the media will always be someone else's point of view. We know that just from the RTKABA debate.

Or they could have been practicing for the next mass murder; who knows.

[3dots]

ALWAYS GO WITH YOUR GUT! If I had the same "feeling", I would have left the facility and told management why. That's just me...

[ladder13]

I saw a story the other day about a "Muslim looking"(her words) woman who went into a Dicks Sporting Goods somewhere in Cali, bought 8 boxes of .223, and the clerk called the police. She's planning a lawsuit.

[Engine 21]

Think about it....a Muslim "looking" woman buying multiple boxes of .223 ammunition. What comes to mind is the obvious "Red Flag" paranoia - it is not the norm. She is purchasing a fair amount of ammunition for what? To make a statement, to challenge anyone who questions her, to promote a lawsuit for profiling or is she just buying ammunition for the range?

You don't know her motives but she has to know it does cause suspicion in this day and age.

[keith44spl]

Ya know, I had one of those moments one time....

I was on a flight from Anchorage to Houston.
There was a couple of mid-eastern fellers boarding behind me, one was wearing a cap with the screen printed likeness of a halibut on it.

So, I'm asking about the fishing and such, just making small talk...They didn't know what a halibut was.

I'll always wonder about that...it was September 8th, 2001...


.

[arjay]

Originally Posted by Engine 21

Think about it....a Muslim "looking" woman buying multiple boxes of .223 ammunition. What comes to mind is the obvious "Red Flag" paranoia - it is not the norm. She is purchasing a fair amount of ammunition for what? To make a statement, to challenge anyone who questions her, to promote a lawsuit for profiling or is she just buying ammunition for the range?



You don't know her motives but she has to know it does cause suspicion in this day and age.

Maybe all the paranoia and hyperbole have made her nervous and she's exercising her right to self defense?

[woodsltc]

Originally Posted by Blowncar

The other voice in my head was saying, hey pay attention to your instinct and be observant, screw being PC.

^^^^ There's your answer. In today's world with the events happening here and abroad, survival may very well depend on listening to that little voice that tells you something may be a threat ............. doesn't mean you over-react, but means it's just smart to be on a higher alert level. JMO


Don

[hoc9sw]

Originally Posted by arjay

Maybe all the paranoia and hyperbole have made her nervous and she's exercising her right to self defense?

Maybe she is trying to cause a scene. In the end, if she creates enough of a stir, Dick's will just stop selling 223 to avoid future problems. Situation stinks. If she is really legal and above board, she should be happy Dick's is paying attention.

[ladder13]

Will the real Martian please stand up

YouTube

https://video.search.yahoo.com/video...&hsimp=yhs-001

[Comrad]

They've got us where they want us.

If you see something say something, year right. how is that possible?

The train station across the street where I work was evacuated and guys dressed in black with machine guns took the place over because somebody left their lunch on a train.

Meanwhile a brown bag full of explosives can be deposited in the trash can and nobody will blink an eye. Matter of fact they will be congratulated for keeping the platform clean.

We're in trouble here.

[10mmauto]

Originally Posted by ladder13

Will the real Martian please stand up

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O59FvNYA1Fw


https://video.search.yahoo.com/video...&hsimp=yhs-001

That was an excellent episode. Rod Serling was so far ahead of his time, you'd almost think...he might.....have been.......an alien!(?)

[vito]

Its a tough call, but Muslims (or anyone who looks Middle Eastern) will be a lot better off and better accepted in the U.S. if they acknowledge that we have a right to be suspicious and concerned. While not all Muslims are terrorists, pretty much all terrorists have been Muslim. I think that when peaceful American Muslims start being more open in their criticism of extremist elements in their community, when we read about Muslims coming to authorities with information about someone preaching jihad or hatred of America in their mosque, and see CAIR more concerned with showing that they are loyal Americans instead of apologists for radical Muslims, then the average Muslim will be treated with less suspicion and concern.

Profiling is rational. We should be screening Muslim young men from countries where jihad is popular much more thoroughly than an elderly Swedish woman coming to the U.S. as a tourist. But that said, profiling where it is used to harass or worse of innocent people is just not acceptable. I have an adopted 21 year old son who is African American. While he had some trouble earlier in his life, he is working full time and looking for an apartment with his fiance and planning to have a family. Yet he has been through several incidents with law enforcement where it is clear his only offense was "driving while black". We have to find a way to be vigilant without violating the rights we value as Americans.

[Blowncar]

Interesting comments. First off he wasn't doing anything illegal to report. His demeanor which was really sketchy (regardless of his appearance) was what really caught my attention. Of course it is almost impossible to articulate demeanor in writing. I did notice that the store had video and they require and enter drivers license info into their database. In my 29yr career I dealt with and observed a tremendous amount of odd and sketchy people, I am not paranoid just way more observant than most. It is just sad that you have to run that mental checklist in your mind because of what's going on in this world. Of course I did nothing to impede on his rights nor did several others who were in the immediate area that were obviously noticing him.

[TTSH]

Originally Posted by Blowncar

Feeling uneasy at range today...

There are a lot of people who can make me feel uneasy at a range... and when they do, I simply pack up and leave. Doesn't matter what color they are, how they are dressed or what accents or language they are speaking. If there is anything unusual, suspicious, illegal or unsafe about their conduct, I'm outta there.

[10mmauto]

Originally Posted by Arik

...

Don't you need proper cause for all that? Skin color, accent and guns are all legal. If a black guy came in wearing baggy pants and an oversized shirt, talking ghetto would you do the same? Should you ask him his religion? Would you let a guy with a shaved head and Swastika tattoos rent a gun? ...


Don't get me wrong I understand where your coming from but the guy didn't do anything illegal and he could very well not even be middle eastern. ...

I get your question. The simple answer is no, as a police officer, you don't need probable cause to ask someone to talk to you. All they have to do is say no. But also, in this case, you are thinking like a patrol person, and not an investigator. You could ask the individual to talk to you, and they could say "buzz off" and that ends it. (But they might talk to you, and so you would try to find out what you can. There would be nothing to sue you for, as you asked to talk to them and they consented.) But the better tactic here is to simply find out who the person is, and do a little intel. Attempt to determine if there is anything worth investigating.

As to "If a black guy came in wearing baggy pants and an oversized shirt, talking ghetto would you do the same?" To be perfectly honest, I just might. It depends on many things outside the scope of the original post.

So to get back to the issue here, the OP said that the young man appeared "middle eastern." This returns us to the issue of "if you see something, say something." I believe, there needs to be an acute awareness at the moment of the possibility of Muslim involvement in activity that might be related to terrorism. And in this scenario, that is why I would have taken some sort of action.

"Would you let a guy with a shaved head and Swastika tattoos rent a gun?" Just to say - not my call. I don't run the range.

[10mmauto]

Originally Posted by Mainsail

Terrorists usually don't go to the range to learn how to shoot, they go to practice what they learned in terrorist training camps. ...

I get your point, but that is the problem. You are absolutely mistaken.

Our problem in the US right now (not withstanding illegal immigration and the idea of admitting Syrian refugees by the thousands) is the problem/threat of self-radicalized individuals. These are people who have probably never left the United States. As in the case of the San Bernardino shooting and the Chattanooga shooting they are probably US citizens! So despite all the newsreel footage of terrorist recruits running around in the desert shooting AK's, that isn't what is happening.

They have probably never left the US. The bulk of their tactical and firearms knowledge/training is probably from video games, airsoft and paintball. What actual experience they can get, they do get at local ranges. It may be their only source of actual firearms experience. The San Bernardino shooters both practiced at local ranges (although as jihadists who actually traveled overseas, some of their training could have certainly come while they were abroad.)

[10mmauto]

Originally Posted by TTSH

There are a lot of people who can make me feel uneasy at a range... and when they do, I simply pack up and leave. Doesn't matter what color they are, how they are dressed or what accents or language they are speaking. If there is anything unusual, suspicious, illegal or unsafe about their conduct, I'm outta there.

I don't blame you.

Do you say anything to anyone?

[10mmauto]

Originally Posted by ladder13

I saw a story the other day about a "Muslim looking"(her words) woman who went into a Dicks Sporting Goods somewhere in Cali, bought 8 boxes of .223, and the clerk called the police. She's planning a lawsuit.

Over what? Was she offended? Can't sue anyone for that (or I guess I'd be sued several times for this thread alone.)

I'd like to know exactly what happened in that case and which elements of the event led to her suing. I'm aware we live in an extremely litigious society, but I just can't see what basis she'd have for filing suit. (But then again, I am not an attorney!)

[TTSH]

Originally Posted by 10mmauto

I don't blame you. Do you say anything to anyone?

No, I haven't felt the need to complain so far. My own threshold for what I consider a safe & secure range experience is really quite low. When I recently saw an old guy signing in at my indoor range who I wouldn't have trusted shooting next to me, I just left. He may have been the safest shooter in the entire free world, but the dude's slowness & unsteadiness made me uncomfortable.

Same with shooting next to a family with young children. No matter how safe they may be, I'm outta there.

And same when I know a first time noob lesson is about to take place in the lane right next to me. Time for me to catch a cup of coffee.

[10mmauto]

First of all, I apologize for so many individual posts, but I can't get this multi-quote feature to work. I've tried three browsers (Chrome, Firefox and Safari) and I've signed out and back in, but nothing seems to work. But this should be my last one....

I think the original post is clearly an issue that begs the question "if you see something, should you say something?"

The problem with this is (as many of you have pointed out) is that it is not that simple. It is a two part question.

Part 1: "If you see something..."
See what? Is what the OP wrote suspicious? Is what Arik or Ladder13 wrote later suspicious? Under what circumstances? What is it exactly that you have to see before you decide to say something?

Unfortunately, in these current times, that something is "suspicious" or "questionable" activity by individuals who might be Muslim. Sorry. That is not politically correct. That may be considered profiling. But the fact is, it was not Christian pensioners, or guys "wearing baggy pants and an oversized shirt, talking ghetto" or Jewish teenagers that committed the terror attacks in Paris, or San Bernardino or Chattanooga. It was "military-aged" (read young, teenage to late 20's, early 30's), male and female, Muslims.

Of course, I've further muddied the waters with this definition because I used the terms "suspicious" or "questionable." No one said this was easy!

Part 2: "...say something."
Fortunately, this is the easy part. Once you've determined that you saw something that fits the definition of part one (being judicious about not letting political correctness cloud your judgement) just say something to the proper authority. Complaining to the range manager doesn't help - unless he/she of course, in turn, determines for themselves that what you reported fit the definition of part one, and then decides themselves to report it as described in part 2! The report needs to be made to someone who has the duty, tools and training to properly triage and vet the information. Local PD, county PD/Sheriff, state PD, ICE/HSI, the Bureau, a JTTF, a friend in LE!

With this said, a question something like this will inevitably arise, "Ok, I saw two young guys (teenage to mid-twenties) wearing hoodies (race undetermined) meet late at night in the far corner of the mall parking lot by a single car. It looked like something was exchanged by hand, one kid left, and then returned about ten minutes later in another car. Both trunks were opened, something was exchanged between the trunks, and then both cars left the area, going in separate directions. One drove past me, and I got the license plate. Should I report it?"

I only bring this up, because clearly there is reasonable suspicion of some type of criminal activity, but it is probably not related to terrorism. Is it any different? My answer is no. Use the same generic definitions - part 1: did you see something suspicious? If you have enough training, experience and/or common sense to realize that you did, then yes - you did. Part 2: - should I say something to the proper authority? As in the example discussing terrorism, I say yes you should. But this brings up the elephant in the room.

As a civilian, but more importantly to this discussion, as a citizen, is it your DUTY to report in either case?

To end this overly long post, I'll simply say that in my opinion, I can understand anyone who says that in the SECOND case, they would argue that they do not have a duty or ethical responsibility to do anything. But in the first case, I believe that it is clear that as a citizen - you DO have the responsibility to say something.

[jimmyj]

Jimmy's Opinion:
"Paranoid" and a "mite suspicious" is ok in today's world.
Never take anything for granite
all ways be in code yellow (never in white).
***Remembering the above is a good way for a young cop to go home alive at shift's end and retire at the career's end.

Career: 1955-2007

[Jessie]

Remember the neighbor of the SB shooters saw things that bothered her but didn't want to be a profiler and told no one.
You have to go with your gut. Days are different now and looking or acting in a strange way may just mean something more than just...you are strange.
It's not a condition we've asked for but its one we're living now.
I would temper my concern and response to what it is that's bothering me about someone. May do nothing other than observe, may tell someone in authority if I feel its warranted.
There's no clear answer that's going to cover everything.
I will say that being politically correct will not enter my mind, though.

[ErnieDeBord]

I prefer 5.56 over 223 myself, regards Ernie

[raisedin99]

In my small world we have no indoor range only a local private club but should I observed a similar situation regardless of where it is I would write down the specific information and drop it off at the local police or sheriffs department….I know the local Chief and the Sheriff so it is not a issue passing the info on to someone.

Just give it to them, tell the story and say "here it is I am not making accusation or complaint, do with it as you will", maybe someone there will be thoughtful enough to simply stick it in a cubbyhole for future reference.

Perhaps what you turn over to them could be valuable information in an ongoing investigation. If they don’t want it they can throw it away but my concern is over once I give it to them.

terry

[the ringo kid]

Originally Posted by ladder13

I saw a story the other day about a "Muslim looking"(her words) woman who went into a Dicks Sporting Goods somewhere in Cali, bought 8 boxes of .223, and the clerk called the police. She's planning a lawsuit.

It seems if certain people wear their feelings on their sleeves, well too bad. If it were me? I'd simply walk away and go to Walmart and buy that ammo. SOME people are just looking for any excuse to sue another---all for that mighty dollar.

[wbraswell]

I'd say that a Middle Eastern person, quite possibly an American citizen, in the political climate of today, in this country, is in way more danger from redneck Americans, than we are from them. You don't know if they were Muslim, and you certainly don't know if they were in any way radicals. Would you know if they were Indian instead? There have been Muslims in our society since it was founded, with really no problems until 9/11, by radicals who really just use religion for an excuse for their hatred. I know that if I looked like one of them, I'd damn sure be armed, and not with just a shotgun or deer rifle. Especially if I read threads like this. We had attitudes like this around 1900 about Italians and Irish immigrants, who were widely thought to be anarchists. Just because they look Middle Eastern, doesn't mean they just got off the plane from Syria.

[Will Carry]

Well that guy would fit in at the indoor public range I go to. I won't even go there on weekends. Weird people freak me out. BOOGA BOOGA!

David Steinberg used to do a comedy skit where he was a ......never mind. You're probably to young.....

[the ringo kid]

Originally Posted by Engine 21

Think about it....a Muslim "looking" woman buying multiple boxes of .223 ammunition. What comes to mind is the obvious "Red Flag" paranoia - it is not the norm. She is purchasing a fair amount of ammunition for what? To make a statement, to challenge anyone who questions her, to promote a lawsuit for profiling or is she just buying ammunition for the range?

You don't know her motives but she has to know it does cause suspicion in this day and age.

I'll place my bet on the lawsuit factor. Just look at what happened with that kid who ''built'' that clock.........

[the ringo kid]

Originally Posted by arjay

Maybe all the paranoia and hyperbole have made her nervous and she's exercising her right to self defense?

Maybe the kid that cried WOLF, cried it to many times? I was in Heidelberg, Germany when the USS Cole was attacked, I saw the attitude towards Amis by some from the middle east, and it wasn't a good attitude either. The next day I was in Frankfurt waiting for my flight back here, and was being watched by a tall arab ''gentleman.'' To make a long story short, he was watching me and I knew it but didn't let on. After leaving a tourist trap shop, left and was going to head upstairs. Well, a funny thing happened, he didn't see a squad of armed German soldiers and almost walked into one as he was too busy watching me. He saw the soldiers at the last moment and went away as fast as possible. The soldiers were grinning and I walked up to them trying my limited German. One asked me if I knew that guy was watching me? I said I'd noticed he was for at least 15 minutes. The German asked me what I'd do if the guy tried something? I grinned and opened a huge leather bag I had that had four or five bier steins in it. I simply said I'd have bashed his head in. They laughed. I have kept in touch with one of these soldiers since Oct 15th 2000. Ulrich is a good friend, and who is still serving with the Gebirgejagers. The Germans feel like most of us on this subject.

[BigBill]

They trained Arabs to shoot at the high rock gun club range decades ago till they were caught. Great right in my backyard.

[ladder13]

Originally Posted by the ringo kid

It seems if certain people wear their feelings on their sleeves, well too bad. If it were me? I'd simply walk away and go to Walmart and buy that ammo. SOME people are just looking for any excuse to sue another---all for that mighty dollar.

Or just order online.

[ladder13]

Originally Posted by the ringo kid

Maybe the kid that cried WOLF, cried it to many times? I was in Heidelberg, Germany when the USS Cole was attacked, I saw the attitude towards Amis by some from the middle east, and it wasn't a good attitude either. The next day I was in Frankfurt waiting for my flight back here, and was being watched by a tall arab ''gentleman.'' To make a long story short, he was watching me and I knew it but didn't let on. After leaving a tourist trap shop, left and was going to head upstairs. Well, a funny thing happened, he didn't see a squad of armed German soldiers and almost walked into one as he was too busy watching me. He saw the soldiers at the last moment and went away as fast as possible. The soldiers were grinning and I walked up to them trying my limited German. One asked me if I knew that guy was watching me? I said I'd noticed he was for at least 15 minutes. The German asked me what I'd do if the guy tried something? I grinned and opened a huge leather bag I had that had four or five bier steins in it. I simply said I'd have bashed his head in. They laughed. I have kept in touch with one of these soldiers since Oct 15th 2000. Ulrich is a good friend, and who is still serving with the Gebirgejagers. The Germans feel like most of us on this subject.

Don't mess with the Polizei I was in Frankfurt airport in '82, before most of this terrorist stuff, they had that place covered very well.

[snuffy51]

Read all the posts in this thread. Made me feel better about just living simple and slow in my own small world. Only time I've been to "the range"" is several years ago for my required CCW class and qualification. Range USA in Memphis, very nice place but too many people. I didn't know anyone. One whole day. Have access to a lot of private land around here for shooting anytime, at least weekly and most times more. Go armed and aware all the time, am comfortable with that. Can't fix the world, but I can control where I go. Maybe just lucky to be born and live in a great state. Hope everything ends up right for everyone. Hopefully sooner than later. If you don't vote, you don't have any right to complain.

[the ringo kid]

Originally Posted by ladder13

Don't mess with the Polizei I was in Frankfurt airport in '82, before most of this terrorist stuff, they had that place covered very well.

I remember a story a friend of mine told me, when it comes to the Polizei. My friend Dan, was in the Army ASA and stationed I think in Kotterbach? and had many German friends and spoke Deutsch fluently. One time he was drinking with some German friends who also were in a Fallschirmjager unit. Some rowdy G.Is came in and soon started a fight with the German paratroopers. Dan said the paras cleaned house with them, then the polizei arrived. One G.I had a knife, was told once--ONCE, to drop it. He didn't, and they dropped him. Now if Dan was embellishing this or not? I can't say but, I learned not to mess with German cops.

[chaparrito]

My 23 year old son just grew out his beard for the first time. He's dark skinned and has a black beard and hair. Somebody called the cops on him for Buying Ammo While Brown I'd happily help him sue the pants off everybody in sight.

[BAM-BAM]

Following the thread it looks like about 50/50 on .......see something/say something........or maybe not.

Wonder if Massad Ayoob.....buys his ammo at Dick's.................

Sure would hate to be a plumber of middle eastern decent who has to shop for pipe at Home Depot.


Short of a felony in progress; I guess "they" need to tell us what exactly we're looking for so we'll know it when we see it!



I remember playing those connect the dots games when I was a kid........life was easier when I was a kid.........I liked Ike!

[BAM-BAM]

Originally Posted by chaparrito

My 23 year old son just grew out his beard for the first time. He's dark skinned and has a black beard and hair. Somebody called the cops on him for Buying Ammo While Brown I'd happily help him sue the pants off everybody in sight.

Ah..... the new american way.......so why don't you turn in your concealed carry .......and just carry a lawyer! I'm sure you can get a "deep pockets" holster for the retainer..........


I seem to have a vague recollection of the same being done to those of Irish decent ...... pale skin and red hair ..... up around Boston..............about 80/90 years ago....... they were shipping guns and ammo to the IRA.

Seems we need to find a way to hang together or we will most certainly hang separately.......heard that somewhere before!!!!!!

[handejector]

Originally Posted by the ringo kid

The Germans feel like most of us on this subject.

Originally Posted by ladder13

Don't mess with the Polizei I was in Frankfurt airport in '82, before most of this terrorist stuff, they had that place covered very well.

After the debacle in Munich, I would certainly hope they have learned something.......

[cmort666]

Originally Posted by Blowncar

Thought to myself i shouldn't have this feeling because I'm a nice person. The other voice in my head was saying, hey pay attention to your instinct and be observant, screw being PC.

I'm sure at least some of the 14 in San Bernardino were "nice persons". They're still dead.

I'm NOT a nice person and I don't have any problem at all entertaining the thought of potential threats.

[cmort666]

Originally Posted by the ringo kid

Ulrich is a good friend, and who is still serving with the Gebirgejagers. The Germans feel like most of us on this subject.

From what I read, the German military is in DESPERATE shape.

Between having essentially no serviceable rifles in the Bundeswehr and the Luftwaffe just barely scraping by in terms of flyable Tornadoes, it looks they're racing the Brits to the bottom.

I wonder what they'd do if ISIS decided to call an intifada in Germany.

[the ringo kid]

Originally Posted by handejector

After the debacle in Munich, I would certainly hope they have learned something.......

They have, and most are starting to turn against merkle because of her dubious policies. Recently, the Bavarian govt stood up to her about those migrants and voted in laws to protect their state. That's where my friend Ulrich lives.