Ok. For those who haven't followed a thread that I started in the 1961 to 1980 section, I asked about purchasing 2 rather hot and valuable Model 27-2 models. One is a 3 12" blue with everything (wood case, ALL paperwork, accessories and looks unfired since test firing at the factory) and a, believe it or not, a 4" blue with nothing but a set of Pachmayrs. Both were $2,250, $1,250 for the 3 1/2 " er and $1,000 for the 4" er. The 4" er is in great condition, looking like it hasn't been used much, if at all....

So, I am dealing with one employee who is trying to help me. I have asked the helpful employee to hold the guns while I see if the owner will come down some for a "package deal." That was done. In the mean time, I have some work obligations (this was last week starting on Wednesday. Had work on Thursday involving a 13 hour day.... Helpful employee is off Friday and so am I. I text this employee and ask about the call to the guns owner. No response... No problem. Employee is off Friday. Send text today to ask about owner response. Response is "owner says only $50 off." I text back "I'll take the offer and I will buy the guns."

I have bought about 10-15 guns from this gun store since it began selling guns 20 years ago and have purchased accessories, ammunition, parts, and whatever else was needed for my hobby. The employees have been there from the beginning. It is a family owned-operated store. So, today, I get a response from helpful employee who tells me that the owner will come down $50. I text "I accept the offer" and ask for the hold to continue. Helpful employee tells me that the other (older) employee has taken the guns from hold and put them back on the wall (for sale)....! Older employee is related to helpful employee... I am dumbfounded. I ask helpful to remind older that I have made numerous purchases and thought that my word was still honorable. Helpful texts that they are uncomfortable being "in the middle." I agree. I ask if I should call owner of store. No response. I understand and do not want helpful to be in this any longer. I call store owner and explain. He says that he had no idea. I understand and he conforms that I have always honored my commitments to the store. So he says that he will take care f the matter and does so. I get text from helpful emp. that guns are now in safe. And can wait until I can get the money up for full payment after the 21st....

Ok, long-winded explanation. Sorry. To my question: Why are some gun store employees such Adam Henry's? Older employee was NEVER in this deal. Wasn't asked to be in deal and didn't need to be involved. Just took it upon himself to put the guns back on display even after being told that they were for me..... I know this guy. I have never had cross words or difficulties. Have discussed guns and related things and have even asked his opinion about guns. Just don't understand. But this: If he was the store owner... This would have been the last transaction I would ever had made in this store.....

In your shoes, I would just say "All's well that ends well."

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You're shy a few manners.

I don't know, but I hope the $50 was worth it.

Mountain meet mole hill.

Attached Images

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where's my thread?

Just two quick opinions off the top of my head. In any business with
several employees there may be a lack of communication between
them about any one transaction. Also it isn't the store's problem that
you might have a long work day. You expect them to take two
expensive guns off the market, possibly losing a sale, on your word
alone when you haven't even put down any deposit. The store
employees might be asking the same question as you are; why are
some customers such Adam Henrys?

Possible that the older employee has been burned a few times by people who said hold it and never came back or finished the deal. I bet its not all that uncommon. It may have been different if the older guy had dealt with you before. Seems the problem wasn't that hard to fix and everyone came out happy. You are happy to have the guns, right?

Why are store employees such **********?

It comes from dealing with the public. Contrary to a commonly quoted misapprehension, the customer is actually wrong about 97% of the time, but even when faced with a well trained specialist, will argue any point.

Congrats on purchasing what sounds like 2 nice guns. I'd be happy about that and move on.

Yeah, pretty much this. I'm glad it ended well. I've had similar situations end not so successfully.

I can't tell from the OP whether these were shop-owned guns or consignment guns... ... but no shop around me would ever hold a consignment gun for 21 days for me under any circumstances (let alone 2 guns). And if these are shop-owned guns, the shops around me would still want a hefty deposit and layaway agreement to hold a gun that long (again, let alone 2 guns). I think you are very lucky.

Cash is king. Then again I don't carry that much scratch.

You can bet I got enough down to hold the deal until I can get to the bank.

Lets make a deal.

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Dum vivo cano

Nice guns. I have learned that if you see them and want them give the store a deposit until you get paid, go to bank whatever.

For $2,250.00 whats $50??

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Still Running Against the Wind

That's pretty much the situation I am in.

I have been a steady, regular, dependable customer at my family-owned LGS for 25 years. Whenever I go in there, I make it a point to buy something, even if it's only a box of .22 or a bore brush, so I can support a local business. (It's tough times for gun shops in my state, and there is a Wal-Mart less than a mile away.)

I have never had an issue of any kind in this store. I have referred friends there on many occasions. I walk in the door and they know me. I've bought and transferred a lot of guns from them over the years. They generally price their guns fairly, and I don't haggle over the price.

The store changed hands about 18 months ago, with one brother -- who'd been the original owner -- buying it back from his younger sibling. And man, did things change!

About eight months ago, I was looking to trade in a lightly used Series 80 XSE Colt Government Model. I'd bought it new, and had put less than 100 rounds through it...it's in pristine condition, not a scratch or mark anywhere on it. The owner looked at it, declared that it "obviously" had had a lot of use, and made me a ridiculously low offer, which I didn't accept. (I still have the Colt.)

Then, in mid-April, while browsing in the store, I noticed a 1960s-vintage Browning Challenger. I looked at it and decided to buy it, and again, I didn't haggle over the price. However, the owner informed me that he no longer accepts personal checks. When I expressed my incredulity, given my long relationship with the store, he demurred, and told me that well, okay, he would accept a check from me...but I would have to wait for it to clear before picking up the gun. I politely told him that I would never do business with him again...

Still shaking my head over this, but it is what it is...

Absolutely! No deposit = No deal. You want them? Then get to an ATM or give a charge card number and prove it.

And I just saw from the other thread that these are, in fact, consignment guns. In my world, getting a shop to hold a consignment gun without a deposit for 21 days is nothing short of a miracle. I find that amazing. My own brother (bless his soul) wouldn't do that for me!

For poor old me, $50.00 is still $50.00 whether it's on top of a hundred dollar purchase or a $5K purchase. I've walked away from guns over as little as $20.00. Sometimes principles matter more than adding another gun to the accumulation.

I've never tried to trade-in one gun for another, but I've certainly watched the process enough times to know that dealers aren't inclined to give the big bucks for anything. Even the very best and most honest dealers out there still want to make a few bucks and hopefully stay in business. Your dealer may have over-played his hand a bit, but I'd never hold it against any dealer who saw less value in a potential trade-in gun than I saw in it. Better to sell it outright or put it on consignment (if that's more convenient) in order to get your target price for it.

Negotiating a deal through a guy who isn't the decision maker with money that's not in pocket... that leaves plenty of room for issues to arise.

As far as the particulars of this situation.... I have no clue. But I can say this with all certainty-- It is quite common for an employer/boss to say one thing to a worker (directly or in a general offhand comment) but do another, particularly when talking to the customer. So maybe the employee was recently chewed out for holding guns for guys who eventually didn't show, or made a general comment that he's tired of getting screwed over holding guns... who knows...

When any type of deal doesn't work out as planned or has snags along the way I look at what I could do differently next time. That's generally worked well for me.

Not to defend the employees, but selling firearms is a bit different from used cars. I expect a serious demeanor, not a plaid sport coat and big smile. First time I walked into what's become my LGS of choice, the hired help all looked at me like I owed them money. That's all changed in the interim, but at the time I couldn't help thinking WTH.

It's the old saw, money talks and **** walks.

Perhaps one exception to the above. If I were dealing with a long time client, I may hold something for a max. of two hours.

If I'm selling them and the offer is less than full price, I wouldn't hold them for more than the rest of the day without a deposit of some sort, in the chance a full price offer came along. Even with the deposit, the end of the month is a long time . . .

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

I'm glad you were able to purchase the firearms you wanted. I do a fair amount of business with a couple of local gun stores and one independent FFL holder. I would not expect any of these to hold $2200 of merchandise for a substantial amount of time without a cash deposit or at least a valid credit card number regardless of our relationship. I suspect there are not a large number of customers who are in the market for niche firearms in the four figure price range. To categorize gun store employees as AHs based on the situation described is unfair on your part in my opinion.

As a gun sales person many years ago I can assure you that there are great object lessons on both sides. The public at large is stupid about guns and make some awful comments and some very awful gun handling. My past experience is make a deposit to hold and then always follow up. I have gotten several great deals with a small deposit to hold while I raised the cash. I even have left $10 to take off the sales floor for one week with the agreement that if no contact they get to keep the $10. Works for me!

You lucked out! I once offered a dealer $200 in cash to hold a gun for me for one hour while I tried to find an ATM for the rest of the money. The cash discount made it very worthwhile.

He declined.

Since you asked this question, I'm guessing you haven't ha much experience in dealing with the public lately.

I don't understand the whole post? You got the guns, move on.

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Still Running Against the Wind

I'm one of those grumpy old guys that works in gun store. Been doing it for eleven years.

For the first ten of those years our store had a 5 day courtesy hold period for customers. We no longer do. Seventy to 80% of the time you never heard another word from the customer and the hold expired. Maybe two percent of the time a great customer would call and tell you to release the hold and of course some bought the firearm.

Here is the problem with that hold. When the gun is on hold you loose the chance to sell it to someone else. We advertised our used firearms on the net. Often you had to tell someone that the gun was on hold and not available but you would take their number and call them if the first customer did not take the gun. Sometime you called them back and made the sale when the original hold expired. More often you called the second customer and they passed on the gun. Maybe they had bought elsewhere or they just moved on to something else. You lost the chance to turn that inventory and reinvest your money. So we no longer hold guns without a deposit.

I also saw mention above of someone being upset at what they felt was a low ball offer. Okay here is the grumpy old guy answer...when you bring your gun into a store to sell it; you are no longer a customer. The store is the customer. The store is under no obligation to buy your firearm any more than you are when step up to their counter and look at one of their guns. Like all of us when we buy a firearm the store has a budget and a price they are willing to invest in a certain firearm. Notice I said, "invest". Unlike us the store has to buy that firearm and mark it up enough so when it sells they can pay the bills.

A store can't throw a fit and yell at you when you pass on buying or make a low ball offer on one of their guns. Now remember you are the seller and the store is the customer so can't throw a fit with an offer you don't like. Remember the old saying the customer/buyer is always right. Well the store is the customer when you are selling them a gun so they are always right as the saying goes. If you don't like the offer; smile and thank them for considering your firearm and then move down the road and sell it elsewhere.

And that is how this grumpy old guy behind the counter sees things. Now here is the good part of dealing from behind the counter. Ninety nine percent of the people you deal with are great. You learn from some that know more than you about any given firearm. None of us can know it all about every make and model out there. I've been doing this for 11 years and I don't go many days without seeing something I had never seen before. You also get to educate people that really want to learn. I've made some great friends I've met across the counter.

Remember I said 99% are great...that 1% sure can ruin your attitude in a big hurry.

Okay that was my ramble and rant for the day...forgive typos and grammar errors. I am fluent in typo.

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Bill Bates

What I have found is that the sorry employee gets his/her kicks by kicking the hive. I have noticed the hive kickers usually aren't there very long either.
I make it plain when a hive kicker approaches me that I have no intentions of dealing with them. I refuse to be another notch on his belt. I refuse to accept an attitude while spending big bucks.

Quite likely the original owner bought the shop back because the younger sibling was not operating it at a profit and he now has to turn the business around. Operating a gun shop is not a hobby, it is a business. The profit margin on new guns is VERY small. Money is made on trade-ins & add-ons.
Don't get me started on personal checks, haven't accepted them for years. Cash is still king, Cards are just fine, money is in my account within 24 hours and I don't have to make a trip to the bank.

Holds without a deposit? 24 hours at the most and that is if I know you.

I think we can agree that Pawngal does not fall in the Alpha Hotel category.

Having said that, I'll add that (a) I fail to see the OP's problem, and (b) I'm beginning to catch a whiff of defunct horse.

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Oh well, what the hell.

The bike shop I used to frequent had a bunch of sprockets, chains and junk nailed up hanging on a wall with a sign under it that said:

"This is why we don't do special orders anymore."

If these are consignment sales at a dealership they typically don't make much on them and see them as an annoyance. Add the drama of the "$50 discount interaction" and the owner probably adopted the attitude that "the first guy who has money in hand and wants to buy the gun gets it".

Holding a gun as reserved "on somebody's word" is not typically done. It takes money.

Seen it here plenty of times. Last time I remember--was at a gun show. Guy goes to table looking at a gun and fondeling it relentlessly for a long time. Begs dealer to hold piece while he says he's going to get some cash from tha atm inside. Hours later-and five possible sales later, guy shows up and said he bought a gun elsewhere. I know because, this happened to me when I decided to sell a rifle that I needed to, to help out with someones health bills. Well, nedless to say, said person has deep pockets and at least COULD have said something while my potential buyers were at the darned show!!!! Im like some of the above--never will I hold anything again--without a substantial deposit. I cant afford to unlike most others can.

There seem to be two distinct types of Gun store employees
from my dealings.
One is very helpful and friendly.
The other is a (ex Rambo Special Forces know it all) who really
doesn't know as much about firearms as he lets on.

I will deal with the first and walk right past the second.

I don't understand your reluctance over 50 bucks.
Be happy it worked out in the end and next time
deal directly with the store owner from the get go.

Chuck

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They hold no Quarter

I agree with Chuck. I get so sick of the superiority complex it makes me want to scream! There's a LGS here in SA; they also have a nice range. I was there one time & asked the RO for help with the target machine, & he actually smirked & shook his head. It was a type of system that I had never used before. When I got the smirk, I told him I was sorry that I had bothered him & that I would figure it out on my own. He just smirked again & walked off. Needless to say, I've never been back...

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Lounge Lizard Extraordinaire

Many years ago I found an item at local pawn shop without enough cash. I was a frequent customer, an well known by the owner and his wife.

He explained that he would not take my check but he would hold it for me. I responded with (approximate statement)

If you don't believe my check is good; WHY would you think my word is good.
After that time he would always take my checks.

Bekeart

I've said this before: I worked in the gun department of a sporting goods store in the early '80s. Two USAF friends of mine and I worked part time, and there was the gun department manager and the store manager, who was the only one able to authorize a "discount."

The customers who simply couldn't live with themselves if they didn't get a "deal" were known as Cheap Charlies. Something in their DNA wouldn't allow them to pay the sticker price on anything. It's simply amazing how much they stood out in the crowd of really great customers. And I'm sure they thought the customer service stunk because they had a really tough time getting service, even when we weren't busy. I would have stocked fishing lures before waiting on one of them, and our store manager fully supported my attitude 'cause he might have given them a buck or two off a purchase (guns were way cheaper back then), but he hated them as much as me. I think they must have been the ones who spawned "generation entitled."

Move along; there's nothing to see here.

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Wrangler of stray Chiefs
Bob

Sadly there are jerks on both sides of the counter.

What range is this? I sometimes go shooting in SA and would like to avoid this place.

I hope you told him that on your way out.

Or better yet, inform the owner so he knows what kind of jerk he has for an employee and that he is costing him money. Maybe the owner will smirk as he fires him.

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So many S&W's, so few funds!!

You have no right to complain. If it had been my store you would have ponied up the money immediately. I would give you enough time to go to the bank. But that's it. And there would be no discounts.

You obviously don't know what it takes to run a business let alone a gun shop. The store owner wasn't playing with his money. Due to the guns being on consignment, it was someone else's money. That someone is patiently waiting for a buyer with money in HAND. He then has to wait for the store owner to cut him a check less consignment fees.

It bothers me that people think that because they have been good customers that they are ENTITLED to discounts or other preferential treatment.

And as far as the miscommunication, there wasn't any. The store owner was annoyed that you bothered to ask for a discount AND wait for his money. So he didn't tell you the truth. Would have pissed me off too.

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Life Is A Gift. Defend it!

The weirdo employees must be the same guys that pick the music for you tube gun videos.

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Halfway and one more step

I have seen a lot from both sides of the counter. Around 50% or more of the guns put on hold get put back on the floor because the people change their minds meanwhile customers miss the chance to buy them while on hold.
Many customers think the world of themselves because they think they are the customer that makes or breaks the store. A customer who buys 5 guns a year may be more profitable that the one who buys 10 a year who always wants a deal on everything.
It seems in the DNA of some to pay the lowest price no matter what, even if the price is a fair deal. The sales person's discount is never enough, they need to speak to the manager or owner.

If you see a gun in a store that you like and it is a model that is in demand think hard before you leave the store. Just because it is too much for you doesn't mean that there aren't 5 others who would buy it at list price.

If you're buying a $200 gun, $20 might be significant (10% is 10%).

On a $2,250 sale however, $50 is just 2% of the asking price. From the gun shop's perspective, if the OP wasn't willing to pay 100% of the price, it's a reasonable assumption by the shop that he wasn't going to pay 98% of the asking price either. Consequently, it's no surprise the guns went back out on display, particularly as there was no deposit paid to hold them.

The guns in question are fairly big ticket items that have an appeal to a fairly limited market. The seller can't afford to have the shop put them on hold until it's convenient for a buyer to decide to come in and pay. At a minimum the OP should have given them a credit card number to at least guarantee the shop was going to get paid for the firearms.

Exactly.

My preferred shop knows me well, and I don't quibble over price if it's something I'm interested in. Oddly enough that results in the shop's staff recognizing me as someone who has a very high potential to actually buy a gun I ask look at, and they usually offer to go $25-$50 under the marked price just to sweeten the deal.

They also have a good idea what interests me, and will point out interesting S&Ws they've taken in since the last time they saw me that they think I might be interested in.

I agree.

I've encountered lots of people who passed on a rare, uncommon or hard to find firearm due to the price being $50 to $100 over what they thought it was worth, only to have someone immediately snap it up. A year or two later, those same people are almost always kicking themselves for not buying it when they had the chance for what in the long term would have been a great deal.

Twice, I've also patiently stood 4-5 ft away from customers inspecting a firearm, then haggling over price, then walking away as they either felt it was too high priced, or "wanted to think about it". In both cases, I didn't let it go back in the case, and after my own inspection bought it for the lowest price just offered by the shop to the other customer. Both were still good deals.

Way too many people use what they've observed similar firearms sell for a few years ago as their measuring stick, and way too many people think that unless they can get a screaming deal, they shouldn't buy it.

My LGS has always taken good care of me, but I always deal directly with the manager. Employees come and go and seldom take time to know who the good customers are. You were just another person to deal with before their night out.

I totally blew by the first sentence in the original post here, but then I got to thinking about it . . .

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

Since $2,250 purchases are vastly too rich for my blood, and I think everything important on this thread has been said, I'm out.

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Oh well, what the hell.

glad to hear everything worked out well for you.....

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There's nowt so queer as folk

Money talks, promises walk. It's a business.
Just put some hold money down.

It's not easy being in business. I recently ordered the 442 PC 'pinto' of Chattanooga Shooting Supplies. My range/FFL was kind enough to open an account with them. Two arrived, the 2nd ordered by a friend of a member. The range made many attempts to inform him his gun had come in... He never responded. Nice. The club shows a member's friend a courtesy, no deposit, and this happens.

I wound up taking that 2nd 442 (You know me and J-frames!). I just couldn't leave it sitting there. I know my word is VERY good there, but there will now be a deposit for casual orders.

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103

P.S. There are LGS's out here which insist on full payment (+ tax + NICS) before ordering a gun. Anyone else come across this?

Half paid up front seems to be the norm here.

However the times I've done this I've paid 100% up front - with their agreement that I have a right to refuse the firearm if it has defects. I've done this twice - both times with Rossi Model 92 rifles I have ordered. Rossi's QA has improved over the last couple years, but I still don't trust them and thoroughly inspect anything I buy with the Rossi/Braztech/Taurus label on it.

And most reputable shops will agree to that, as they understand the concern as they have more issues with Rossi/Braztech/Taurus than all other companies combined.

However, in both cases where I special ordered, both rifles were perfect.

My last favorite STL gunshop and I had developed trust over the years. If I went by on my lunch hours or stopped by on a Sat and saw something I wanted they would hold it till the next day or till Monday. I never saw them do this for others. I never saw them take a down payment to hold one.

If you want it, buy it was their thought. I had bought some guns and had spent most of my money at a gun show. I had not planned on this and it's probably never happened to any of you, as I was carrying my plunder down the isles looking I saw something I had to have, don't see them often. I asked the guy if he would hold this while I went to the ATM, he said no, I said what if I leave my plunder here? He said yes. He could not lose, 3 times the value of what I was buying.

Machinist Hall, STL, the ATM is at the bank across the parking lot, I hustled both ways. Long walk.

Then my brain was sent in for stem cell research. While it was gone I sold the little 3 screw Ruger 4 5/8" 41 MAg. What was I thinking? I don't know....