I know people that do it all the time; I do too.
However I always carry in a well made holster with a strap under the hammer. I don't pass judgement on some one else method,
but I was wondering if there were any documented cases of an accidental discharge while carrying without an underhammer strap, not from handeling but while holstered.
I know it would be unlikely due to the design, with the safety engaged and the grip safety not disengaged. Any way I'm not asking about likelihood, or even opinions really, just wondering if it has actually happened to anyone's knowledge. Thanks

I've never heard of one. And I've actually never seen a 1911 holster with a snap unless it was for a shoulder holster.
The most common holsters today are some for of kydex and seems like it works fine
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I carry in a Bianchi 19L, probably twenty years old, it has a thumbbreak strap that goes snugly under the cocked hammer. It's been a good one, but I also have a Galco Yaqui that I like but just haven't gone past the front yard carrying in it.
That 19L is older than I thought. Just remembered, I bought it in '93.

LE duty holsters for the 1911 generally had/have the retention strap cover the back of the slide, fitting between firing pin and hammer.

Many other types of holsters in the 1970s and up also had retention straps that fit in the same manner.

Since the grip safety blocks the trigger and the thumb safety blocks the sear, it would be possible (not likely) for an impact on the hammer to shear the sear and allow the hammer to drop.

Kind of on the subject, but the cocked and locked was a requirement by the Cavalry when they switched from Colt SAA's to 1911's. A it takes two hands to do work the slide (I know there are ways around this) and two they felt it was safer for the horse as the pistol would be pointing at its head while the trooper charged his weapon.

Yea, call me paranoid, but I like my 1911's in holsters with a strap or thumb break between the hammer and slide. Just feel better about it that way. I have, on occasion, found that whatever activity I was engaged in, has knocked the thumb safety off while carrying.

I also question those holsters that run their retaining strap behind the slide, over the grip safety. Maybe tight enough to depress it? See the paragraph above...

For what its worth, been carrying almost every day since I was 18, and 30 years in LE. Never felt a safety strap unduly slowed me down, in a properly designed holster.

Larry

I know when I was in uniform(Army) we were not allowed to carry that way. Just a loaded mag under an empty chamber. Of course that was a long time after horse cavalry and in peace time.

I had a 1911 in a fanny pack cocked and locked with the safety double checked to ensure it was on safe. My son and I went bouncing over goat trails in the CO Rocky Mts on the Alpine loop and had a great time until that evening when we made camp and I pulled the 1911 out of the fanny pack and found the slide safety had disengaged its own self. The only safety in operation was the grip. What happened is all that bouncing around knocked the safety off.All the rest of that trip was not C&L no round in the chamber. I solved the problem by making a custom fitted sleeve out of a prosthetic material I use every day called pelite. It fits very well and the pistol cannot move around in the fanny pack loosely anymore and the safety stays on properly now.

I carry a Colt Commander frequently in a Milt Sparks Summer Special or one of a number of similar styles with different leather finishes. These don't have a safety strap, they utilize tight fitting molding of the leather to hold the gun in place. Been doing so since about 1987 when I bought my first Sparks holster at Gunsite when I took a class. Never a problem.

Remember, the 1911 has several "safeties" at play at the same time. Thumb safety. Grip safety. Half cock notch is a safety. Many newer 1911's also have a firing pin lock safety. To get the 1911 to fire requires disengaging all of the safeties the pistol has.

I'm not questioning the wisdom of carrying this way or the likelihood of an accident. I am looking for any documented accidents.
Just sayin' (:

I can't find any documentation on this, but I met a feller one time that show me a scar
on his right calf of the entry of a 45 caliber bullet out of a 1911 being carried cocked & locked....

With that being said, I believe this feller was just purty reckless
in other walks of life as well as being careless handling his firearm.

I've carried the 1911 Gov't Model cocked and locked for almost half a century without nary a bobble.


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"IN GOD WE TRUST"

Several years ago it happened at a local gun show here. The show promoter was carrying a 1911 in some kind of holster, he sat down and the gun fell out of the holster and fired when it hit the floor. I don't know what brand the 1911 or the holster were.. Thankfully no one was killed or seriously injured, I would say it was negligence on his part for not having a secure holster.

I can't locate an actual news story on it any more but there are posts on an AR forum referring to it.
Starts about 1/2 way down the page.

spirit lake gun show black ford bfl - Page 1 - AR15.COM

This is a Facebook post by the guy that was injured. Don't know if you have to be a member of Facebook to read it or not.

Dynamic Firearms Instruction - Timeline | Facebook

pawngal;
That was a good read. That kind of thing makes me sorta spooky about going to gunshows. Sounds more like negligence.
I kind of think a quality holster, strapped or not, would not have done that

This is not the OP's topic but kinda related. I like 1911's but to big for me to carry. A lot of folks buy these pocket pistols like the Sig P 238 which is like a baby 1911. Only problem is it has no grip safety!

So to me shoving one of those in a pocket holster or heck even in a belt holster seems scary to me let alone bouncing around in a purse or fanny pack,
The thumb safety is not that hard to release and the triggers are very light on those guns. Seems like without the grip safety those would be a accident waiting to happen.

Maybe just me.

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Still Running Against the Wind

I frequently carry an M1911 (or Browning Hi Power) cocked and locked, IWB. None of my holsters has a thumb break, nor do I feel the need for one.

Would you carry a glock 43 in a pocket holster? The Glocks have 5.5 lbs. triggers with a short take up, NO MANUEL SAFETY. The Sig P238 has a 5-7 lbs trigger with about as much takeup as the Glock, and it has a nice positive thumb safety.

I might get bashed for this, but I'll say it anyway. A Glock, with it's 5.5 short takeup trigger, is very much like a 1911 WITHOUT the thumb and grip safety. 1911 triggers are in the 5 lbs. range, with a short takeup. Only thing is, 1911's have a grip and thumb safety---Glocks have neither.

I'm another that has carried a 1911 cocked and locked in a holster without a strap. No problems here. The 1911 is one of the safest guns one can carry.

Any documentation you can find won't tell the whole story. And 99% of those are due to negligence.

Rule number one. Keep your finger off the trigger.

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Life Is A Gift. Defend it!

I enjoy seeing a "cocked and locked" 45 auto in someone's holster.
Fear?? Absolutely not, as I carried mine this exact way for many, many year's.
It was always ready throughout my long career.

I don't want to be the Glock defender here, but in all transparency the Glock does have the trigger safety bar and it is half cocked so I wouldn't call necessarily say it has a short take up trigger. People who have AD's with 1911's or Glock's are handling or carrying them improperly, they don't go bang by themselves.

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- Change it back -

I've carried cocked and locked 1911s for about 30 years now. I prefer open top holsters and don't remember ever having one with a strap. I've never had the thumb safety mysteriously disengage or an AD.
For that matter, I've also carried Colt Mustangs owb, iwb and in pockets without any problems either.

I consider the 1911 to be the finest defensive handgun ever made. BUT, one must be willing to put in the time and practice to master it. Many people don't and they are the ones who pay the price for their ignorance.

i carry c&l .To know the mechanics of the 1911. The grip safety JUST blocks the trigger from touching the sear. The thumb safety LOCKS the sear into the hammer notch, the safety or 1/2 cock notches on the hammer are designed to LOCK onto the sear if the gun is dropped on the hammer and shears off the hammer notch.JMB was no slouch in design.

Same here.
The Navy made us have them in condition 3.
Worthless if some action was needed NOW!

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Only difference Fool/Mule-ears

No and Glock (or any other striker fired) has nothing to do with this? It is striker fired and not hammer fired and nothing like a 1911 trigger.

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Still Running Against the Wind

I've not heard of a 1911 going off while being carried cocked and locked. I do carry mine that way sometimes. That is one reason I never installed the little spacer and eliminated the series 80 firing pin safety. I did buy the spacer but never really wanted to defeat any type of safety. Like the one poster said just keep your finger off the trigger. I bought a nice holster that was made to snap the strap with the hammer down. I cut a notch out of the strap to allow either style of carry.
Peace,
gordon

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better have that checked

The discussion has been wandering away from the OP's actual question in various directions.

I'm not aware of any case and I don't think there is a possibility of an AD with a cocked and locked 1911 while being carried. Let me add that I don't count having the gun bounce around loose in a bag or somesuch as proper carrying. AD's happen, with any design, when the gun is being handled and especially when the mechanism is being manipulated, like during loading and unloading.

As for retention straps, since during those decades when I carried cocked-and-locked 1911's I also engaged frequently in vigorous physical activity, I always had a retention strap over the slide in front of the hammer. I simply didn't want to lose my gun. Old-timers among you may remember that that's actually what those straps are for, not to prevent AD's . I never trusted that fancy "internal tension spring" stuff.

Well, we all know Colt's 80 & 90 series have the firing pin block....

I've carried a pre-70 series 1911 for decades in the likes of this thumb break rig,



But, I also use open top design holsters with equal confidence.





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"IN GOD WE TRUST"

I read in Guns and Ammo magazine where General George Patton was asked about why he liked revolvers and he said he had a 1911 go off in the holster and graze his thigh from a vigorous activity. That means he must have had it cocked and unlocked with the grip pinned down.

Patton said lots of things " Only New Orleans Pimps carry guns with pearl grips " I am not from NEW ORLEANS and i carry a S&W with pearls

FWIW I don't carry my BHP cocked and locked. I don't feel the thumb safety is positive enough and it has no grip safety. I carry it on 1/2 cock.

Im fixin to start carrying my 1911. So how reliable are those made by: Auto Ordnance?
Almost exactly like mine cept I changed the wood-US Diamond grips for a pair of custom grips::

This one to be exact(not mine) but:

IMO, accidents happen. And it's not a question of if, but when.
Or that's the mentality I have in the effort to always be cautious.
Hopefully when they do, no one gets hurt.

kid,
I've not had an AO 1911 but I imagine they're as good as anyone else's that are similar in quality and price. The several RIA 1911's I've owned or otherwise shot, were good. IMO, lotsa bang for the buck...

I'm one of the few folks (there ARE others) who like the Colt Series 80. I have a SS Gov't, a LW Cdr, and a full-size P/O with a Colt top. The main reason I restrict myself to Series 80 is a slight concern over a dropped pistol. I have heard of dropped 1911s discharging, but I don't know their mechanical states (factory cherry, "Bubba"ed, or somewhere in between). I haven't read everything, but I've read a lot about guns over the last 53 years or so, and I never heard of anything approaching an un"Bubba"ed C&Led 1911 discharging except when dropped, with the exception of that one C&Led Series 80 (!) that got to close to an MRI rig.

My unscientific personal conclusion is that a C&Led 1911 is safe unless you are a serial sinner and you drop it; A C&Led Series 80 is safe regardless. And, of course, firearms don't belong anywhere near MRI machines.

Thanks but, what I meant to ask on them, is do these have a bad rep for accidental discharge? Ive never fired this one-but a couple years ago--I had a Rock Island-fired it one loved it, but then at the next gun show-traded it towards my Colt .45. Ill definitely own one of those again.

Not that I'm aware of. I'm assuming the AO's are series 70 as they seem to be more popular. The RIA's are series 70 also.

If you are worried about dropping the gun and having the firing pin strike the primer install a Titanium F.P and a heavy F.P spring . I hear lots of complaints about the series 80 system i think it is a solution for a problem that does not exist. But it is another safety .
Few A.D. with any firearm , Mostly Negligent Discharges from unsafe practices.

Here's a good article in the NRA's "American Rifleman" magazine on the 3 carry conditions for the 1911 pistol for those not familiar with the 1911:https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=..._PgXW-qQiC-GUA

Don

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Laus Deo! <><

Beat me to it. Every series 70 1911 I ever owned had the firing pin replaced with a titanium one and heavier spring. Simple solution.

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Life Is A Gift. Defend it!

I don't have a problem with condition one with a 1911. The thought of carrying a Glock makes me nervous. No gun is stupid proof. I've known guys who could mess up a steel ball with a rubber hammer.

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Wayne
Torn & Frayed

My military experience excluded 1911's, even though my MOS called for one. There were accidents resulting from the 1911 being carried-maybe errors, maybe stress. I was on jeep borne roving patrol, and we all had revolvers that we obtained ourselves-carried cross draw, as a last line of defense, close quarter gun. One of my buddies carried a 1911 in a "tanker's chest holster," and that seemed like a good fit on him, but he wasn't on roving patrol. If I can choose, the auto loader I will carry will have a de-cocker. To me that is the best scenario all around for safety and ease of deployment. I like my 4506 no dash.

For the very brief time (only a few weeks - then I realized it was too big & heavy for me) I carried a 1911 as a CCW I carried a Colt Series 80 with the hammer block feature. I carried it with a round in the chamber and the hammer down. I do own other Colts that are series 70 and would not carry them with a round in the tube and hammer down.

I personally do not like carrying it in condition one (cocked & locked) as I see it as an accident waiting to happen. Not telling others what to do, it's just my personal opinion. The ONLY time I would have a 1911 in condition one is of I was about to have to possibly use it.

I suppose, if you can stomach DA semi-auto trigger pulls. I can't, and neither can a lot of other people.

All of my carry guns are either "safe action" Glocks or M1911s.

Other than a Walther PPK, the only DA/SA pistol I'd ever carry would be a CZ75 type, and only then because they can be carried cocked and locked. If I ever bought one, it'd probably be converted to SA only anyway.

How would you know that before it happened?

I've never had it happen to me, and I've never heard of anyone else who'd had this happen.

You hit it on the head. Some people get freaked when they see me packing my 1911 around my property C&L. However, in order for the gun to fire as a practical matter, it has to be removed from its holster, the manual safety clicked off, the beaver tail safety grip held down, and the trigger pulled. Glocks just go bang when the trigger is touched. My bet is there are more ADs with Glocks than 1911s. That said, I wouldn't go toting either around in a fanny pack, only is a proper fitting holster.


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Not quite.

Glocks have the equivalent of a grip safety in the center of the trigger. Don't deliberately depress that and it's not going off either.

An idiot who can't keep his finger off of the trigger is going to shoot himself or somebody else, whether with an M1911, a Glock 19 or a Colt Walker.

Unless you want to be like Charlie Miller.....

Don't go around half-cocked

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"IN GOD WE TRUST"

Thank you Dave

For them what's curious:
Charlie Miller: A Unique Ranger

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Halfway and one more step

The safety wouldn't be engaged while the trooper was charging his pistol

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Retired Career Security Guard

Jim,

Ranger Miller was a man among men....

Back in a time when men were men and women were sure proud of it!

The pictures of Miller's 1911s with the grip safety tied down,
those sort of things come with life's experiences.

My old 1911 that I've carried on and off for 40 something years,
with the grip safety pinned down, cocked & un-locked
(when ever I got that ol' time feeling)
in a suitable holster and rode a many a mile, it has served me well.


Su Amigo,
Dave


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"IN GOD WE TRUST"