Another reason to be anti-EV

[DWalt]

Something I had never considered about shortcomings of EVs is tires. I always thought that EVs would use regular old ICE tires, but that is not true according to an article I read earlier today. Tires made for ICE CAN be used on EVs, but that is not recommended. Instead, EV-specific tires should be used for several reasons. First is that they need to withstand more rapid acceleration torque. Second, they need to be heavier with better support for carrying increased weight. Batteries are heavy. Third, road noise of conventional tires is too high, and is objectionable in silent EVs. EV tires generate less road noise. Fourth, they require less rolling resistance to get better mileage. That is a big deal for EVs.

To make things even more outrageous, EV tires wear out much more quickly, and they cost around 30% more than corresponding ICE tires. My next vehicle will not be an EV.

[Breakaway500]

I don’t need any more reasons not to recommend battery powered cars to my customers…or friends…unless they are shopping for a golf cart.
I’ve seen the coming of the e-let tic car personally since the 70s and they are better but still not ready to “save the planet” or whatever.
That being said you can run conventional tires on EVs they just can’t be low end ****** ones.

[Beemerguy53]

Originally Posted by DWalt

Something I had never considered about shortcomings of EVs is tires. I always thought that EVs would use regular old ICE tires, but that is not true according to an article I read earlier today. Tires made for ICE CAN be used on EVs, but that is not recommended. Instead, EV-specific tires should be used for several reasons. First is that they need to withstand more rapid acceleration torque. Second, they need to be heavier with better support for carrying increased weight. Batteries are heavy. Third, road noise of conventional tires is too high, and is objectionable in silent EVs. EV tires generate less road noise. Fourth, they require less rolling resistance to get better mileage. That is a big deal for EVs.

To make things even more outrageous, EV tires wear out much more quickly, and they cost around 30% more than corresponding ICE tires. My next vehicle will not be an EV.

Let's be honest: You weren't on the verge of buying an EV until you read about the specialized tires they require, were you?

Everything requires specialized tires. High-performance cars, pickup trucks, off-road vehicles, etc., etc., all take different tires unique to that class of vehicles...so there's nothing special about EVs in that regard.

I won't buy an EV because they're not enthusiasts' cars...in fact, they're made for people who are just the opposite of enthusiasts. I want a manual transmission, and the sensations and sounds that go with good old-fashioned horsepower, and you can't get that with any EV.

There is another consideration as well: EVs weigh a lot more than conventional vehicles, and that affects everything from crashworthiness to parking garage construction...

NTSB head warns of risks posed by heavy electric vehicles : NPR

As EV sales surge and cars get heavier, parking garages have to change

[waffles]

I've had a handful of vehicles that needed tires more specialized than I'd toss on a corolla. If it's not something you'd be upset about on your sports car or truck, it's probably not something you'd be upset at in an EV. I get that we're on a gun forum where we whine about EVs, I don't own an EV, and I still think this is a pretty silly complaint.

[Rustyt1953]

YouTube

[Bald1]

Originally Posted by Breakaway500

I don’t need any more reasons not to recommend battery powered cars to my customers…or friends…unless they are shopping for a golf cart.
I’ve seen the coming of the e-let tic car personally since the 70s and they are better but still not ready to “save the planet” or whatever.
That being said you can run conventional tires on EVs they just can’t be low end ****** ones.

Lexus might have gotten a little closer. They are now making a hybrid that you can plug in. Toyota meets Tesla kinda thing.

[Tom S.]

Originally Posted by Beemerguy53

Everything requires specialized tires. High-performance cars, pickup trucks, off-road vehicles, etc., etc., all take different tires unique to that class of vehicles...so there's nothing special about EVs in that regard.

A fair and valid point. My son bought tires for his Morris Mini and I think they were around $300 for all 4. My truck tires cost over $800 for the set. I don't have an exact cost but I believe putting tires on a newer vette will run around $2500 and I read that the tires for Bugatti Veyron run $10k - EACH.

[STCM(SW)]

Yea, looked at what it cost to put tires on my Vet...

[vt_shooter]

I'll by an EV when their manufacture and distribution is accomplished using only solar and wind power, including mining the metals, smelting the aluminum, etc etc,

[DWalt]

Originally Posted by Bald1

Lexus might have gotten a little closer. They are now making a hybrid that you can plug in. Toyota meets Tesla kinda thing.

There are a number of plug-in hybrids (PHEVs) now on the market. The problem is that most of them are high-end and pricey. They usually have limited range while running on the battery alone, generally less than 50 miles. But that would not be a serious disadvantage for anyone who drives primarily close to home. And of course they have and use a gasoline engine for longer distance driving. I was reading something last night about Mazda's new PHEV, but it has only a range of 26 miles on battery power. To me, a PHEV makes more sense than an EV, mainly because most of my driving is close to home. Someone who drives locally could go a long time between fill-ups. The downside is that an owner of a PHEV would probably need to plug in every day to maintain a full battery charge.

[Onomea]

I don't get the advantage of the plug-in hybrid over the regular hybrid. Bet it isn't range. Maybe MPG?

I think I read an article somewhere on ICE vs EV vs plug-in hybrid vs hybrid, and the advantages and disadvantages of each, but darned if I recall what it said...

[Rustyt1953]

The price of my tires has ballooned.

[alwslate]

I can't imagine ever buying an EV for any use except a mobility cart in my old age.

[DWalt]

Seems to me that there might be a market for a basic and relatively inexpensive EV with minimal features, having a range of 50 miles or so for elderly and less affluent people to use in getting around town. Sort of an enhanced electric golf cart that would be street legal. I doubt I will ever see one. Would never be approved by the regulatory bodies because of being too unsafe.

[raljr1]

My Jaguar XJ6 required special tires because of the weight. I guess it isn't that unusual

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[Beemerguy53]

Originally Posted by alwslate

I can't imagine ever buying an EV for any use except a mobility cart in my old age.

Exactly, but, to be fair...

While EVs are not for me, for the reasons I've stated previously, they do have their uses. For urban stop-and-go driving, delivery vehicles, taxis, busses and the like, they're perfect. I was in London last August, and I was very impressed with the electric vehicles I rode in. Even more important, the drivers who owned them, who live with them every day, had nothing but good things to say about them.

Yeah, they have their limits, and they're not for everyone, but that doesn't mean they're no good at all...

[Skeet 028]

I think my sister and her husband have a high end Lincoln EV...it might be a hybrid. She said it doesn't get far on electric...but they live in the megapolis north of San Antonio. I guess they can afford it...but not for me. AC is needed down there in Texas... Heat is needed where I am in Wy. A friend in Md has a sister with a thing called a Leaf. They live 60 miles apart. She came to see him one Sunday.. Started home and made it about 25 miles towards home on a windy day. He had to go get her AAA Got the car to a charging station til the next day. Had to stay with him overnight. He told her next time she comes...bring a real car!

[tops]

[QUOTE=DWalt;141939697 Sort of an enhanced electric golf cart that would be street legal. I doubt I will ever see one. Would never be approved by the regulatory bodies because of being too unsafe.[/QUOTE]

I don't think they would be anymore unsafe than a bicycle or a moped. Larry

[Rudi]

They could make tires that don't wear out, but that would hurt the tire business.

[alwslate]

Originally Posted by Beemerguy53

Exactly, but, to be fair...

While EVs are not for me, for the reasons I've stated previously, they do have their uses. For urban stop-and-go driving, delivery vehicles, taxis, busses and the like, they're perfect. I was in London last August, and I was very impressed with the electric vehicles I rode in. Even more important, the drivers who owned them, who live with them every day, had nothing but good things to say about them.

Yeah, they have their limits, and they're not for everyone, but that doesn't mean they're no good at all...

Yeah maybe for short trip commercial vehicles that can be rotated in and out of readily available charging stations. But for personal use that might occasionally involve trips to places where charging is a gamble. Not for me thanks

[pharmer]

I've got a neighbor with the "big Jeep" SUV-EV. Seems like it never leaves the driveway and is always plugged in. Said neighbor is smart enough though to have the charger outside with a long cord to reach the Jeep. Joe

[NYlakesider]

Originally Posted by Tom S.

A fair and valid point. My son bought tires for his Morris Mini and I think they were around $300 for all 4. My truck tires cost over $800 for the set. I don't have an exact cost but I believe putting tires on a newer vette will run around $2500 and I read that the tires for Bugatti Veyron run $10k - EACH.

Right you are. I have had to replace all 4 tires 3 different times on the Vettes I have owned. Hey you got to pay to play.

Never say never but a fairly safe bet is me not getting one of those new appliances they call a car or truck. Not going to do anything to change my curmudgeon/Luddite persona!-

[ladder13]

C8 Michelin Sport All Season 4 OTD

Tire insurance included.

[robvious]

buy a racecar and get back to me on expensive tires... a 3 day track weekend can go thru 3 sets at 1,500 to 2,500 per set... too rich for my blood... my toy car tire budget (one set per year) is bad enough...

[NYlakesider]

Originally Posted by ladder13

C8 Michelin Sport All Season 4 OTD

Tire insurance included.

Well Mike it appears you did better in the pricing department.

My last 4 tire adventure was back with my 07 Z06, and that bill total came out to about $2,300. I can assume that prices by now have gone up considerably so to me that price in the other post looks right to me. Getting the right shop with the right equipment and good people was paramount in my decisions.

Of course as I live in NY, for various reason many items/services cost more.

Be well, Dave!

[deadin]

I think that one of the main reasons for EV's is that they just give something else to disagree on......

[DWalt]

Speaking of city EV delivery vehicles, this will be a big deal. U.S. Postal Service Unveils First Postal Electric Vehicle Charging Stations and Electric Delivery Vehicles - Newsroom - About.usps.com

[Farmer17]

I think the PHEV (plug-in electric/gasoline hybrid vehicles) are the wave of the future. They have an adequately powered gas engine, but when you want acceleration step on the gas and the electric motor kicks in and you get an extra 75 horsepower or so and then the vehicle will really fly! Toyota has a plug-in gasoline RAV4 SUV that’ll do 0 to 60 and 5.5 seconds and it gets 41 miles per gallon in the city! Other plug-in EV’s are Much faster! They can be plugged into any 110 V or 220 V outlet but they charge a lot faster on the 220 V. During normal driving the gasoline engine gets a bit better gas mileage because the electric motor helps out. Eventually, the cost of the vehicle will be about the same as one that has a big gas, guzzling internal combustion engine, but get much better mileage and pollute less.

[rwsmith]

... a great compromise. Less pollution and not dependent wholly on battery power.

[Oldengineer]

A recurring nightmare for me is that we wake up decades from now and realize that oil was way too valuable to “BURN”. Thinking about pharmaceuticals, engineering polymers, etc. Just another side of the thin pancake. Remember, I’m a Ford engine engineer that is very knowledgeable about spark ignition combustion engines and a hot rod nut.

[dave1918a2]

I thing I will stick with My old Toyota and Corvette. Both over 20 years old. Both have new Michelins too.

[Imissedagain]

Hybrid land vehicles are just smart.
Viking ships have sails and oars.
Sailboats have engines.
Motor yachts, aka Stink Potters, with dead batteries,
call for a towing service or the Coast Guard.

EV only vehicles should have the upper body/roof made
to function like solar panels.

[kozmic]

I managed to pick up some road debris with my '23 pick up tire. I had slightly over 700 miles on it at the time. Mounted, balanced, fees and tax for the 22" Bridgestone was just about $400. That was a bit painful with so few miles on it.
That said, there will be no EVs or hybrids in my foreseeable future.

[Oldengineer]

I’m inclined to believe that currently it’s all about duty cycle. I have a cabin in the forest that is off grid with a 8KW solar system. It is backed by with a trusty (?) Generac generator. I make way more power than I use. With an electric car used for around town trips, the charging is free. In addition, it would provide neck snapping, tire smoking acceleration when one feels the need for speed. An F150 Lightning to pull my travel trailer…….no way. I’m sticking with the 3.5l Ecoboost and 36 gallon gas tank. Just another perspective.

Tom H.

[NFrameFred]

Originally Posted by Oldengineer

A recurring nightmare for me is that we wake up decades from now and realize that oil was way too valuable to “BURN”. Thinking about pharmaceuticals, engineering polymers, etc. Just another side of the thin pancake. Remember, I’m a Ford engine engineer that is very knowledgeable about spark ignition combustion engines and a hot rod nut.

I've told people the same thing for decades about coal; one day I believe they'll say, "ya know, they used to burn this stuff !?!?"
Lot's of spin-off products (plastics, solvents, medicines, etc.) can be derived from coal. Probably still have it buried in a drawer some place but I used to have an interesting 'tree' drawing showing myriads of products/uses for coal other than fuel or steel production . . .

[ladder13]

A raccoon could drive a synchro gear, rev matching car.

[Yaworski]

Originally Posted by Beemerguy53

I want a manual transmission,

Getting harder and harder to find.

[Oldengineer]

And harder and harder for dealers to sell.

[Farmer17]

Manual transmissions are fun on a sporty vehicle...until you hit rush hour traffic or until your knee starts hurting from working the clutch. I would like to have one but I'd want to be able to press a button to put it in "full automatic transmission mode" when I got lazy.

[S-W4EVER]

Given all the downsides to EV’s I wouldn’t take one as a gift.

[DesertFox]

Originally Posted by Onomea

I don't get the advantage of the plug-in hybrid over the regular hybrid. Bet it isn't range. Maybe MPG?

I think I read an article somewhere on ICE vs EV vs plug-in hybrid vs hybrid, and the advantages and disadvantages of each, but darned if I recall what it said...

Plug in eligible the tax rebates. Plug in, under $80k MSRP, several other stipulations.

'18 Volt here (plug in hybrid) and '23 Lightning Lariat ER.

[DWalt]

Having owned six cars with manual transmissions earlier in my life, I never had a manipulation problem with any of them. A different story with my wife. Anyone remember that fluid drive system Chrysler had back in the 1940s-50s? You could shift or not shift gears as you pleased. It seemed like a good idea at the time, but I never owned one. Chrysler’s Fluid Drive | '56 Packard Man

[johngalt]

Originally Posted by NFrameFred

I've told people the same thing for decades about coal; one day I believe they'll say, "ya know, they used to burn this stuff !?!?"
Lot's of spin-off products (plastics, solvents, medicines, etc.) can be derived from coal. Probably still have it buried in a drawer some place but I used to have an interesting 'tree' drawing showing myriads of products/uses for coal other than fuel or steel production . . .

My thought: If the doomers are correct and the oil is running out, why are we trying to increase our own production? We should be buying from everyone else while it is cheap and save ours for when it becomes expensive.

[glowe]

Originally Posted by raljr1

My Jaguar XJ6 required special tires because of the weight. I guess it isn't that unusual

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Jaguar XJ6 weighs between 3,891 to 4,156 lbs. A Tesla X weighs 5,185 to 5,390 lbs. and that is over a half-ton more!!! That is the same weight as a Ford F150 and just look at the size of pickup tires.

[Beemerguy53]

Originally Posted by Farmer17

Manual transmissions are fun on a sporty vehicle...until you hit rush hour traffic or until your knee starts hurting from working the clutch. I would like to have one but I'd want to be able to press a button to put it in "full automatic transmission mode" when I got lazy.

I took my 2013 VW Golf R in for its 210,000 mile oil change yesterday. I drive it almost every day in stop-and-go traffic, and never once have I wished for an automatic transmission...different strokes for different folks, I guess. (And...it still has the original clutch. )

[DWalt]

My favorite stick shift car was a '67 VW Beetle. A pure fun car to drive. If replacing the muffler about every 25K miles and having no AC didn't bother you.

[Beemerguy53]

Originally Posted by DWalt

My favorite stick shift car was a '67 VW Beetle. A pure fun car to drive. If replacing the muffler about every 25K miles and having no AC didn't bother you.

In my misspent youth I owned -- or was owned by -- seven British sports cars at various times, all four-speeds of course. Three of them were MG Midgets, and they were truly challenging to drive.

First gear in the Midgets (up to the 1974 models) was non-synchronized, with straight-cut gears. You had to be at an absolute, complete, total dead stop to engage first, and when you accelerated in first, the whining noise was unmistakable...I can remember it to this day.

But man, were they fun to drive! It was like wheeling around in a roller skate...

[Dave_n]

I used to teach driving on a Diesel Landrover back in the UK around 1957-8 (for the Civil Defence Corp). Lorries (read trucks in US-English) were also part of the fun, In all you learned to "double declutch" as not synchronized gears. I still enjoy my 2013 Miata with 6 on the floor and AC when necessary. Only 24K miles on it and used on good weather days. Worst US car I ever has was an Olds Starfire with manual shift. Went through 5 clutches in 45K miles because Olds in their second year of selling it put a 6" clutch plate for a 6 cyl engine. The first year used a 10" clutch and the engineers then went to work for Boeing designing and building 737s! Had to point out to the Olds sales reps that I had put over 200K miles on a VW bug with manual and same clutch for all the miles. Dave_n

[raljr1]

Originally Posted by Beemerguy53

In my misspent youth I owned -- or was owned by -- seven British sports cars at various times, all four-speeds of course. Three of them were MG Midgets, and they were truly challenging to drive.



First gear in the Midgets (up to the 1974 models) was non-synchronized, with straight-cut gears. You had to be at an absolute, complete, total dead stop to engage first, and when you accelerated in first, the whining noise was unmistakable...I can remember it to this day.



But man, were they fun to drive! It was like wheeling around in a roller skate...

Got my TD on a pretty steep hill once...would not pull the hill in second. Stopped dead, shifted to first, and had on hell of a time getting those 50 horses to pull that hill

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[Ματθιας]

After seeing all the dead battery powered vehicles due to cold weather...
After learning that it doesn't take much, like a minor collision to total a battery powered vehicle....
After seeing how some turn into mobile crematoriums...
After seeing how much I'd have to spend to put a charging system in my house...
No one seems to know how many charging cycles the battery can take before it turns unless...
Yeah, no.