Beginning to plan a project for the Laurel Highlands of Penn's Woods.

In addition to the "cabin"(if you can call 1400 sq ft with attached garage and dishwasher a cabin) we have a piece of property about a mile off the twp road (no electric service) with a nice stream down the middle. Thinking about retirement and a small "guest cabin"....... set up like a travel trailer but w/out wheels

thinking about a freestanding/off the grid; 20x20 to 20x30 ft ''cabin".

Propane powered; stove,Frig., heat and inline water heater......w/ hook up for small generator..... (Honda 2000+ they are quite )

At 60+ don't want to have to stoke a wood stove......at 5am. FYI the "cabin" has a Franklin stove and a sealed wood stove in the lower level(think bank barn). I want the ability to set heat on low if it's empty for a few days to a week or two........

Couple of buddies have similar cabins with wall mounted propane heaters..... that are in my wife's words...... as ugly as sin...................

So I've have been looking for a propane heater that looks like a old fashion wood stove.... with a thermostat control.

Any and all thoughts suggestions welcome..........................

Check em out.....

Propane and Natural Gas Heating Stoves

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Hipcocked & Locked

I used to have access to a beautiful cabin owned by a friend. He had built it on 20 acres, one mile off the highway. Too far to make electricity reasonably priced and accessible enough for a propane truck to make delivery. He opted for propane and built the place with a 1000 gallon tank that was filled once a year by a service truck. Everything in the place was propane, I had no idea you could get a full sized propane refrigerator, stove, oven, 55 gallon water heater. He even had every room plumbed for propane lighting, at least once light per room and the place was huge by cabin standards, I called it the "Ponderosa" because it reminded me of the place Pa and the boys rambled around in. They didn't have the generator when I was there and that was before all the solar stuff started becoming the rage, nowadays with the kind of exposure he had for the roof you could have enough solar cells on the roof to power the entire house.
I have friends that live just outside the city where gas is not available that have their homes working off propane rather than electricity because the gas never gets cut off by storms, etc.

My wife's family was building a cabin in Southern Ohio, when we first started dating. I helped with the roof and a couple of other projects. 20'x30' of cabin, 10'x20' screened back porch, inside fire place and a outside fire place (To warm ourselves when playing in the snow). Propane stove and refrigerator the size used in campers. Mostly Coleman lanterns and kerosene table lamps.

It was built as a camping type of cabin. Being in our 20's and newly married, meant we were still kids and had to sleep in the loft with all the teenagers! (often 4-10 others) The first floor had a 20'x20' great room and two 10'x10' rooms for sleeping- had nice antique beds, with quilts and comforters. BUT NO DOORS! Since then they built a shower house that is gravity fed, and uses a Coleman stove powered in-line water heater: you get 2 gallons of very hot water for a shower! Use it wisely!!! The "facilities" has one hole, called Alice (The real Alice wouldn't let us call it her son John's name!), and Alice has a view you wouldn't believe.

The cabin is a little over 40 years old now, and the next generation isn't really interested in maintaining it. So it will get sold off pretty soon (wish I could buy and keep it in the family, but that is only a dream) My wife's uncle is in his 80's and has kept the place in fantastic condition, but that requires about 10-15 weekends a year of steady work. I hope your cabins work out as well for you and your friends/family!

Ivan

What a nice retirement retreat to have. Too bad the stream couldn’t be used to power a generator, just a thought to ponder on. Good luck finding a heater, there were some nice ones in the link. I can see why you use the word “woods gun” a lot, Larry

We have one of these things in our living room.


When we got our house in the West Virginia mountains, we wanted a fireplace but we didn't want to have to get a chimney installed.
It's a ventless propane fireplace and it's thermostatically controlled.
Cost around $300 but I can't remember where we got it.

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Can someone explain how a ventless system gets the bad gas out of the living area?

What Toolguy says, seems to be a big flame to not have a vent of some sort. Brad, did you find something yet? Larry

Getting some good ideas........didn't know you could get thermostats on them.

Snubby do you run that fire all the time?..... to heat? How does the thermostat work for you?

In our Burb of the Burgh we have a wood burning fireplace in the Family Room and a vented gas fireplace in the walk out basement "Boys cave". It's just on/off w/ adjustable flame......1990s technology.

The property and stream are on the first piece of ground Dad bought ..... we started with a tent...... moved to a 20ft trailer (dug a 100ft well with hand pump)........ when Dad decided to "build" he opted to buy another piece of the same farm but on a paved State road just over the hill.

So thinking gravity fed water system/tank in the rafters or loft. Thanks Ivan the B....... found them on Amazon....... $229 ...... 30 seconds for 125 degree water and 40 gal. from one 1lb cylinder. coool

Larry Unfortunately the stream's headwaters, less than a mile away, and only about 100yds from the top of the Eastern Continental Divide....... so in a dry summer it's been know to stop running in late August............

My reading on the new ones indicate they are made for 100% combustion of the gas inside the combustion chamber. They do
indicate a ventless system does produce an odor that some people find annoying. If all is well and connection are tight should be no gas in the room.

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Hipcocked & Locked

Vented Fireplaces vs. Non-Vented/Unvented/Vent-Free Fireplaces

Before we discuss the particulars about choosing the correct venting components, we must first acknowledge the emergence of the vent-free hearth appliances over the last few decades. The term "unvented", "ventless" or "vent-free" is applied to hearth appliances that burn gas (natural gas or propane) and do not require any kind of chimney or vent system. This terminology is also used to describe other niche-type fireplaces such as electric and ethanol models.

Indeed, the evolution of clean-burning gas technology has created an alternative option for consumers who do not want to install a chimney due to logistical difficulties or budgetary concerns. However, there are several issues to consider before going this route (which is why we always recommend a vented system if at all possible). Before we even get to those, you should note that some areas of the United States (such as the entire state of California and parts of many other states) have outlawed the use of indoor vent-free gas appliances across the board. Unvented units are also not permitted for use in Canada.

There are a few main concerns with vent-free gas fireplaces, stoves, and inserts that should be scrutinized before making a decision, none of which apply to a vented fireplace. First, the vast majority of consumers of vent-free gas appliances report a noticeable odor emanating from the burner. This is particularly an issue to those with a strong sense of smell. To most this is simply a nuisance, but sometimes the scent can be strong enough to warrant worries of a gas leak even when this is not the case.

The vast majority of consumers of vent-free gas appliances report a noticeable odor emanating from the burner.

Second, the clean-burning vent-free fireplaces are meticulously engineered to achieve complete combustion, but with no vent, the exhaust has nowhere to go except back into the room. While this produces harmless water vapor and carbon dioxide (not poisonous carbon monoxide), this can be a problem in small rooms. In some cases, particularly with propane as the fuel, excessive amounts of water vapor can create condensation on windows and moisture on curtains that can result in mildew or mold if not dried properly.

Finally, another drawback to vent-free units is the lack of realism. Since these models must burn cleanly, a ventless log set or unvented gas fireplace is not going to produce the same flames seen in a real wood fire, and these also cannot match the more realistic effects seen in a vented gas fireplace.

Some of these concerns are mitigated in certain situations, such as installation in a large, open room or a room that is always open to at least one other room. But while the convenience and economic benefits of a vent-free unit can be appealing, we recommend a vented fireplace in almost every situation. For more information and details on the pros and cons of vent-free gas hearth appliances, please see our Gas Fireplace and Stove Buying Guide.

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Hipcocked & Locked

No experience with the propane, but your overall cabin sounds perfect for a shipping container as a starting point. I've been wanting to build one for years.
olcop

I agree! Every single Propane unit I have such as heaters, stoves and lanterns all say do not use without proper ventilation. So where does the CO go??

see below for full description...here is part....

Second, the clean-burning vent-free fireplaces are meticulously engineered to achieve complete combustion, but with no vent, the exhaust has nowhere to go except back into the room. While this produces harmless water vapor and carbon dioxide (not poisonous carbon monoxide), this can be a problem in small rooms. In some cases, particularly with propane as the fuel, excessive amounts of water vapor can create condensation on windows and moisture on curtains that can result in mildew or mold if not dried properly.

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Hipcocked & Locked

Lowes has one that looks like a old wood stove. It is set up with
duel system. Runs on NG or LP, no changing parts it has two
complete valves and pilots. It has electronic ignition and remote
as well as thermo control. I think they come in different outputs.
I put one in on NG and people are happy with it. Going on 3rd
winter.

Oh ya....... I'm sure the wife would love the looks of that........

It uses a pilot light system. You start with lighting the pilot light (it has an ignitor much like a gas grill) then adjust the control knob until the flames kick on. From there the flames'll continue to burn until the thermostat turns 'em off. When the temperature drops, the flames'll kick on again.
There's also an o2 sensor that'll turn the fireplace off if it senses that there's not enough oxygen.
As dben002 said, Some of these concerns are mitigated in certain situations, such as installation in a large, open room or a room that is always open to at least one other room.
Our house has an open design and since it's only my wife and myself, there's no reason for closed doors.

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Hello Bam,

I have a two story camp not too far from your neck of woods and have been running a propane wood stove for the last 15 years with no issues at all.

My stove vents above the roof and is the best thing you can do.

I am generally at a pretty high area so it gets a bit more windy than normal. A vent coming out the side of the place would end up back in the house.
An added plus is if the power goes out you still have some heat.

Thermostat works great if placed well and the stoves blower is not too loud.

Amerigas delivers once a year. (just ordered today) and if insulated well you will spend around 3-4 hundred a year. Well worth not having the hassle of wood.

Heck my insurance company will not even insure a wood built camp with a wood stove.

I have found routing your plumbing well is much more tricky than heating the building.

Feel free to pm me if you would like

Co is only produced by incomplete combustion, not by complete combustion. Having said that complete combustion is almost impossible to achieve. The CO is almost less than 10 Parts per million in air. [PPM]
The real reason for a vent is to remove moisture. Since Nat gas is CH4 and LP C3H8 when mixed with O2 the natural result is H20. The water vapor needs to go somewhere which is why you see it as a vapor from most chimneys when the furnace or water heater runs. On average depending on local humidity you get a gallon of water vapor per 100,000 btu's burned. With a ventless fireplace you just dumped a gallon of water in the room.
The answer to this is in every manufacturers instructions I have read. If you install a ventless appliance you must have a 100 square inch opening permanently cut into the outside wall that freely communicates with the outside. IOW, if you screen or louver it, the hole must be larger than 100 sq in so that the free air through the opening is not reduced.
The manufacturer's safety on these is a pilot that senses when the O2 levels drop and extinguishes itself and the appliance. IIRC, dropout should be at 19% 02 in air and lethal consequences occur at 17%.
I have had the unfortunate experience of being called as an expert witness re C O occurrence from gas appliances.

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Front sight and squeeze

Bump for more input and thoughts on a cold December weekend.

Maybe you could get a propane burner installed inside the existing wood stove - something like a gas fireplace log?

I'd also get a generator that runs on propane.

Actually, she is on board with this idea, in fact, she brought it up the other day saying, "I wish you had that container house ready, I'd kick your butt out of the house"
olcop

Copied from post #11:
"There are a few main concerns with vent-free gas fireplaces, stoves, and inserts that should be scrutinized before making a decision, none of which apply to a vented fireplace. First, the vast majority of consumers of vent-free gas appliances report a noticeable odor emanating from the burner. This is particularly an issue to those with a strong sense of smell. To most this is simply a nuisance, but sometimes the scent can be strong enough to warrant worries of a gas leak even when this is not the case."


In a few rare instances, this scent has caused what seems to be a strong desire for large cigars, small revolvers, and Italian cooking. All in all, doesn't sound so bad!!

Best,
Rick

Works for me.

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