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Drilling out a roll pin

ACORN

ACORN

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This morning I started refurbishing my neglected Bonanza Co-Ax press. I found this press used and the handle and steel rods the "carriage" rides that mount the universal shell holder are rusted. I intended to remove the rust on my wire wheel. There are 2 1/8" roll pins that fix the carriage to the corresponding steel shaft. Without really doing a whole lot of thinking I drove one pin in figuring it went all the way through to the opposite hole and I could drive it through. WRONG! The holes are apparently blind holes. The pins are now about 1/2" below the surface. Do you think I can get a spiral screw extractor or metal screw into the center of the roll pin and try and spin it out or do I need to drill the pins? Is a cobalt drill best or maybe a Dremel carbide burr? I don't want to snap any hard metal off in there and make it worse.
Thanks
 
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Protocall_Design said:
The best way to drill those is with a solid carbide spade drill. A spade drill has no flutes, but is very tough. You can drill some, then dump, blow, or vacuum out the chips, drill some more, clean out the chips, etc.
Click to expand...

I'm guessing the bit you're speaking of would also avoid the flutes from enlarging the holes? Is that something a Home Depot or Lowes would have or do I need to find a machinists supplier?
 
Protocall_Design said:
The best way to drill those is with a solid carbide spade drill. A spade drill has no flutes, but is very tough. You can drill some, then dump, blow, or vacuum out the chips, drill some more, clean out the chips, etc.
Click to expand...

Best advice so far. Remember to be generous with whatever you use a coolant/Lub.
 
Hardware stores don't have them. Look at McMaster-Carr. McMaster-Carr Scroll down to carbide drill bits for sheet metal.

Don't use any lube. Cut it dry. When cutting hard steel with carbide, if you use cutting oil or coolant, the carbide will just skate over it until you apply enough pressure to fracture the carbide. if you drill it dry, it bites right in.
 
If possible, start from the opposite end. Once contact is made and a bit of the pin is cut, you can drive the pin through the shaft either way without damaging the original hole.
I think if you try drilling the entire pin out from the original insert end, unless you have a mill and machinist skills, you'll booger up the bore.
Being spring steel, roll pins are hard and tough and will eat up a jobber drill bit. You really need a firm, plumb fixturing of the work and a good drill press with a carbide bit. Maybe paying a machinist a few bucks to remove it would be worthwhile.
 
Not familiar with the design. What will happen if you
leave em, as is?
 
This job should not be attempted by using a hand held drill motor. The press part needs to be firmly and accurately mounted with the hole vertical in a vise which is clamped/bolted down to a good drill press table or better yet a mill.

As said; the carbide spade bit is the best 'drill out' tool. IMO, you ought to try one slightly smaller than the OD of the hole/roll pin. Then when the drill out is complete if a shell of the roll pin is left try an easy out. I would leave the press part fixed in the drill press or the mill vise and chuck the easy out in the drilling tool and work it by hand, not power. If that fails try a standard twist drill a couple of thousands less than the hole diameter chucked the same way. Again, work it by hand, not power. ....

Fragments of the shell can be removed by taking a piece of say 'spring steel hobby airplane landing gear wire' and sharpening one end. Then bend a small 90 deg at that end with the leg short enough to go down into the drilled out shell. That can be hooked on fragments of the roll pin shell and using a set of vice grips locked on the wire hook and pull. It is a wonder to me as to just how easy some things pull right out with little effort.
 
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My one attempt with trying to drill out a roll pin in a blind hole resulted in a drill bit broken off in the roll pin. I ended up going to a shop that could remove the bit/roll pin with EDM. Didn't cost all that much and didn't change the hole diameter. Probably the best long term way to go.

If you go that route-recommended-have them take the holes all the way through. Those steel shafts are most likely very hard and would be difficult to drill.

Have you tried contacting Bonanza?
 
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Could you drill on through with a bit the size of the roll pin ID, then reverse the shaft and drill through the other side with a bit sized of the original hole, Then drive out the roll pin?
 
ameridaddy said:
If possible, start from the opposite end. Once contact is made and a bit of the pin is cut, you can drive the pin through the shaft either way without damaging the original hole.
I think if you try drilling the entire pin out from the original insert end, unless you have a mill and machinist skills, you'll booger up the bore.
Being spring steel, roll pins are hard and tough and will eat up a jobber drill bit. You really need a firm, plumb fixturing of the work and a good drill press with a carbide bit. Maybe paying a machinist a few bucks to remove it would be worthwhile.
Click to expand...

Not possible to go from t’other end. It’s a blind hole.
 
Here’s a pic of what I’m up against.

The hole in the red casting (center of pic) is blind. There is one on the opposite side of the casting but the two holes don’t mate up. At least not enough to drive the pins through. The casting in about 2-1/2”-3” wide where the holes are.
 

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IIRC-and it was ~30 years ago-it cost me $10-15 to get my problem solved with EDM. Check with a couple local machine shops or Bonanza.

It dawns that if those rods are simply guides for the shell plate, a press could probably shear the roll pins. You driving them deeper might make that a problem. Again, Bonanza could probably give you advice or do the repair.
 
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Id just clean up around it as is and live with the results.

Carbide spade drill as mentioned will cut it, BUT carbide by hand? It will chip and fracture, a roll pin usually has a split in it making a broken cut, even worse for the carbide. Set up in a mill it would work

An EDM will burn it out but you'll need a decent size tank and need to clean the smelly fluid off or it will wreak forever. I am not allowed to wear my clothes from work in the house if I get that fluid on me.

A strip of emery cloth and some oil she'll shine like new in no time. Just U the emery over the bar and give it the O'l shoeshine stroke.
 
wheelgun28 said:
Id just clean up around it as is and live with the results.

Carbide spade drill as mentioned will cut it, BUT carbide by hand? It will chip and fracture, a roll pin usually has a split in it making a broken cut, even worse for the carbide. Set up in a mill it would work

An EDM will burn it out but you'll need a decent size tank and need to clean the smelly fluid off or it will wreak forever. I am not allowed to wear my clothes from work in the house if I get that fluid on me.

A strip of emery cloth and some oil she'll shine like new in no time. Just U the emery over the bar and give it the O'l shoeshine stroke.
Click to expand...

Yeah I’m thinking that may be the best route to take. I was just trying to keep from removing and material from the rods and loosening it up.
 
If just rust removal--Phosphoric acid, or electrolysis?
 
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