Those cursed 1990s Vegas builders

LVSteve · Jan 31, 2020

Finally bit the bullet and got in the professionals to rebore the attic insulation. Looks like when the house was built in the '92-94 timeframe that they were using some kind of blown-in cellulose insulation. Thing is, as the contractor said yesterday, you still have to get right inside parts of a complex attic to make sure you have insulation where it needs to be.

As the photos he took yesterday show, that didn't happen. Bare ceiling board in a lot of places and insulation that doesn't even come to the top of the rafters over most of the rest. The pitch on my roof is pretty shallow and they used those complicated trusses to make it, so I'm guessing the original insulation "tech" didn't fancy climbing in and around to do a proper job.

LVSteve · Jan 31, 2020

Here's how things look now

A couple of examples of R-49 as it should be.

bigwheelzip · Jan 31, 2020

Don't see any rafter vents over the soffits. Gable vents instead?

LVSteve · Jan 31, 2020

bigwheelzip said:
Don't see any rafter vents over the soffits. Gable vents instead?

Sorta. I have one vent in a gable end and a large one in the side of the house where the upstairs HVAC lives in a big void. There are also a whole slew of vents built into the roof tiling, the ones that look like mini-dormers.

IAMSWUTIAMS · Jan 31, 2020

Why is the sheathing painted? Was there fire damage?

Sent from my old rotary phone using Tapatalk [emoji3513]

LVSteve · Jan 31, 2020

IAMSWUTIAMS said:
Why is the sheathing painted? Was there fire damage?

Sent from my old rotary phone using Tapatalk [emoji3513]

I think you are seeing the radiant barrier paint I had done when I first moved in. The painter did say that the house was short on insulation, I just didn't click that is was that short.

Watchdog · Jan 31, 2020

Reckon they used long enough roofing nails?

S&WIowegan · Jan 31, 2020

I know this won't be any consolation, but builders do that kind of **** all over the USA. Back in the early '90s, a young co-worker with wife and kids bought a modest new home. Over the course of his first year of ownership, he finally realized the builder had put NO insulation in the home. The owner had to fight long and hard to get it fixed. The local builder had a good reputation and is still in business. When I see his sign in front of a house have an urge to cover his sign with one which says "CROOK"!

We've had two different builders of "luxury homes" burn their own home down for insurance money when they got so deep in debt they couldn't pay any creditors. I know the fire inspectors and insurance guys who were the victims...they knew darn well what happened but proving it is difficult at best.

4barrel · Jan 31, 2020

We built in 1984 and have had to have more blown in 3 times. That stuff settles every time it thunders. Foam is the way to go on bottom of a roof but it has to be bird and squirrel proof and about $1.50 per square foot but will pay for itself in a few years. From the photos it looks like 1'' foam on top.

bigwheelzip · Jan 31, 2020

LVSteve said:
There are also a whole slew of vents built into the roof tiling, the ones that look like mini-dormers.

I didn't remember seeing anything like these mini-dormers on my inlaw's tile roof in Florida, just soffit vents. Then I remembered seeing something recently like you described, on the stone roofs in France.

LVSteve · Jan 31, 2020

4barrel said:
We built in 1984 and have had to have more blown in 3 times. That stuff settles every time it thunders. Foam is the way to go on bottom of a roof but it has to be bird and squirrel proof and about $1.50 per square foot but will pay for itself in a few years. From the photos it looks like 1'' foam on top.

To my knowledge there are three types of blown-in insulation:

Cellulose, which is the green or brown stuff that settles like crazy (original in our home);
Fiberglass, what the guy blew in yesterday, effectively diced up batts;
Foam, which is very effective but very expensive. Also, you have to remove all existing insulation before you start. That's a major hazmat type exercise and would have been a class A pain at my house due to the low pitch and roof structure.

LVSteve · Jan 31, 2020

Here's a modern dormer roof vent. I think my house has some concealed ridge vents, too.

Watchdog · Jan 31, 2020

S&WIowegan said:
I know this won't be any consolation, but builders do that kind of **** all over the USA. Back in the early '90s, a young co-worker with wife and kids bought a modest new home. Over the course of his first year of ownership, he finally realized the builder had put NO insulation in the home. The owner had to fight long and hard to get it fixed.

My question about something like that would be: Who were the inspector(s) who passed and signed off on it? Have to wonder if some money changed hands under the table.

LVSteve · Jan 31, 2020

Watchdog said:
My question about something like that would be: Who were the inspector(s) who passed and signed off on it? Have to wonder if some money changed hands under the table.

Quite likely, and the county inspectors office is always kept short of staff by the county commission. Can't imagine why.

Well, we had this fine example of bribery and corruption in the 2000s and I was reliably informed of two things:

1) It was barely the tip of the iceberg in scope. The strip club thing was a blind to avoid putting every property developer in the pokey.

2) The FBI were informed beforehand of exactly how high in the government bodies of NV they could go. That is, it was not to touch Carson City or get anywhere near the then head of the Senate.

Operation G-Sting - Wikipedia

Later, we had this.

The Harmon - Wikipedia

Yeah, lots of effective inspection there.

BigBoy99 · Feb 1, 2020

We had the same problem. When we went to settlement on our house, I specifically asked the builder about the insulation in the attic. He assured me that there was insulation in the attic. (Attic access was through a small trapdoor in a closet ceiling.) After we bought the house, I was able to get into the attic and discovered the builder wasn't lying! There was a single roll of pink insulation in the attic but the roll was still rolled up! I changed the attic access to a pull down stairs in the hall and was able to install proper insulation in the attic.

Farmer17 · Feb 1, 2020

Watchdog said:
My question about something like that would be: Who were the inspector(s) who passed and signed off on it? Have to wonder if some money changed hands under the table.

I've built houses for 25 years around the Oklahoma City area and we never had insulation inspections until the last few years but they only inspect the walls, they don't come back later and inspect the attics. Based on my research the foam insulation is about 20-25% better than blown in but costs 75-95% more.

Farmer17 · Feb 1, 2020

Watchdog said:
My question about something like that would be: Who were the inspector(s) who passed and signed off on it? Have to wonder if some money changed hands under the table.

I've built houses for 25 years around the Oklahoma City area and we never had insulation inspections until the last few years but they only inspect the walls, they don't come back later and inspect the attics.

Engineer1911 · Feb 1, 2020

I have lived in 4 houses, insulated three attics. Current wife helped me insulate this attic and she was amazed at what we found or didn't have. Cost of insulation was fully recovered in 3 monthly heating bills and 3 monthly A/C bills. We didn't need to wait 3 years to see a ROI.

Electric and gas costs dropped 25% to 35% from previous season.

bigwheelzip · Feb 1, 2020

BigBoy99 said:
There was a single roll of pink insulation in the attic but the roll was still rolled up!

Sorry, I don't know why, but the way you tell it in hindsight, you really cracked me up.

Telecaster · Feb 1, 2020

The problem we have here is the inspectors and plans examiners make the new owners pay for the sins of the previous owners/builders, and the “mistakes” of past inspectors.

Those cursed 1990s Vegas builders

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